VDesai wrote:martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
I think this is it for me with Obi. Wasn't he the National Player of the Year? Or at that level in college?
I don't think I've seen that level of accomplishment as a player and then who came into the NBA like he didn't even want to shoot the ball. Crazy
Do you guys realize that 5 out of the last 12 National Players of the year have been on the Knicks? 
who are they?
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
I think this is it for me with Obi. Wasn't he the National Player of the Year? Or at that level in college?
I don't think I've seen that level of accomplishment as a player and then who came into the NBA like he didn't even want to shoot the ball. Crazy
Do you guys realize that 5 out of the last 12 National Players of the year have been on the Knicks?
who are they?
Trey Burke, Jimmer Fredette, Doug McDermott, Jalen Brunson and Obi Toppin.
Obi leaking is doing it at the behest of his coaches. If he is defying them he would be sitting.
He is in the corner as well.
Im not into "he my favorite knick" kind of thing and like all our guys. Thus I don't favor one vs another.
I defend Barrett (youth and potential) because I don't get the love for one and yet have to villainize another. Its not that predict his ceiling, I just won't give up on it.
I fully expect one or two of our yoot core {Obi, Barrett, IQ, Deuce and Grimes] gets traded. For whom I dont' know.
In the modern era we simply as fans never had this level of yoothier depth rostered and relevant.
Nalod wrote:Obi leaking is doing it at the behest of his coaches. If he is defying them he would be sitting.
He is in the corner as well.
Im not into "he my favorite knick" kind of thing and like all our guys. Thus I don't favor one vs another.
I defend Barrett (youth and potential) because I don't get the love for one and yet have to villainize another. Its not that predict his ceiling, I just won't give up on it.
I fully expect one or two of our yoot core {Obi, Barrett, IQ, Deuce and Grimes] gets traded. For whom I dont' know.
In the modern era we simply as fans never had this level of yoothier depth rostered and relevant.
lol for all practical purposes, he is sitting. a lot, to the tune of only playing 14 minutes a game or so
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Obi leaking is doing it at the behest of his coaches. If he is defying them he would be sitting.
He is in the corner as well.
Im not into "he my favorite knick" kind of thing and like all our guys. Thus I don't favor one vs another.
I defend Barrett (youth and potential) because I don't get the love for one and yet have to villainize another. Its not that predict his ceiling, I just won't give up on it.
I fully expect one or two of our yoot core {Obi, Barrett, IQ, Deuce and Grimes] gets traded. For whom I dont' know.
In the modern era we simply as fans never had this level of yoothier depth rostered and relevant.
lol for all practical purposes, he is sitting. a lot, to the tune of only playing 14 minutes a game or so
Im insinuating if he gone gone rouge he'd be punished. He is sitting because of Randle. It get that.
Why didn't you create this thread during our 9 game winning streak?
Why wait until 1 loss?
Talk about emotional.
NYKMentality wrote:Why didn't you create this thread during our 9 game winning streak?Why wait until 1 loss?
Talk about emotional.
NYKMentality, I don't what you are doing here. But I don't think this is something that is worthwhile.
martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why didn't you create this thread during our 9 game winning streak?Why wait until 1 loss?
Talk about emotional.
NYKMentality, I don't what you are doing here. But I don't think this is something that is worthwhile.
It's an honest question.
🔹Knicks are just now coming off the 8th longest winning streak within Franchise History (9 wins) dating back to 1946 of 77 years ago.
🔹Knicks of 2022-2023 have became the 1st and only Knicks team (within Franchise History) to ever have two (2) separate 8 game winning streaks (during the same season) since dating back to 1972-1973's Championship Winning Knicks team
But now it's "Obi Toppin is done in New York", and "Obi is as good as gone" and "let's just quit on an extremely talented 24 year old kid Player" etc etc
That's all I'm doing was wondering why this topic of conversation was created immediately after an (9-1). Is it because the sky falls after every loss?
NYKMentality wrote:martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why didn't you create this thread during our 9 game winning streak?Why wait until 1 loss?
Talk about emotional.
NYKMentality, I don't what you are doing here. But I don't think this is something that is worthwhile.
It's an honest question.
🔹Knicks are just now coming off the 8th longest winning streak within Franchise History (9 wins) dating back to 1946 of 77 years ago.
🔹Knicks of 2022-2023 have became the 1st and only Knicks team (within Franchise History) to ever have two (2) separate 8 game winning streaks (during the same season) since dating back to 1972-1973's Championship Winning Knicks team
But now it's "Obi Toppin is done in New York", and "Obi is as good as gone" and "let's just quit on an extremely talented 24 year old kid Player" etc etc
That's all I'm doing was wondering why this topic of conversation was created immediately after an (9-1). Is it because the sky falls after every loss?
It doesn't occur to you that people want to talk about things regardless of win streaks or losses? Like one thing has nothing to do with the other?
Not for nothing but you are one of the most overly emotional Knicks posters on the planet. Got you banned from several different places because of it.
When you are you going to recognize what you are doing?
martin wrote:Not for nothing but it seemed like Randle was doing in-game load management, he barely was into it against Charlotte and didn't seem to break a sweat.He should have sat and Obi should have gotten those minutes.
A bunch of guys looked like hockey players after a long penalty kill that they couldn't change on. They were walking with cement shoes.
Obi was + for us last night, along with McBride - Maybe Thibs should have gone with them for some extended minutes, but I wish Obi could find a way to score.
I'm a fan, and I get that in 14 minutes it's hard to impact the game. But if you have Brunson or Randle for 14 minutes, you would expect them to have impacted the game scoring wise to a bigger degree.
We've seen flashes from Obi - last year, earlier this year.
But it would be best for him to head off with Evan Fournier and maybe a draft pick or two for a more established player. Maybe even with RJ!
But he is looking more like Kevin Knox 2.0.
man I was so pumped the night we drafted Obi. I really had wildly high expectations. Its also a lesson in getting extra picks and using the draft. Because of IQ it will go down as a great draft as he appears to be a truly ascending playing.
Obi just isnt a good fit here. Its not a system thing, or a usage thing, its an Obi thing. He's finesse player and this is an attack the basket hit the boards and grind type of team and Obi just doesnt fit. Bummer but not every player is going to work out and overall Im very happy with the player development
franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Not for nothing but it seemed like Randle was doing in-game load management, he barely was into it against Charlotte and didn't seem to break a sweat.He should have sat and Obi should have gotten those minutes.
A bunch of guys looked like hockey players after a long penalty kill that they couldn't change on. They were walking with cement shoes.
Obi was + for us last night, along with McBride - Maybe Thibs should have gone with them for some extended minutes, but I wish Obi could find a way to score.
I'm a fan, and I get that in 14 minutes it's hard to impact the game. But if you have Brunson or Randle for 14 minutes, you would expect them to have impacted the game scoring wise to a bigger degree.
We've seen flashes from Obi - last year, earlier this year.
But it would be best for him to head off with Evan Fournier and maybe a draft pick or two for a more established player. Maybe even with RJ!
But he is looking more like Kevin Knox 2.0.
I would have loved to have seen IQ and Randle sit this game. Let the even younger guys play some stout minutes.
martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Not for nothing but it seemed like Randle was doing in-game load management, he barely was into it against Charlotte and didn't seem to break a sweat.He should have sat and Obi should have gotten those minutes.
A bunch of guys looked like hockey players after a long penalty kill that they couldn't change on. They were walking with cement shoes.
Obi was + for us last night, along with McBride - Maybe Thibs should have gone with them for some extended minutes, but I wish Obi could find a way to score.
I'm a fan, and I get that in 14 minutes it's hard to impact the game. But if you have Brunson or Randle for 14 minutes, you would expect them to have impacted the game scoring wise to a bigger degree.
We've seen flashes from Obi - last year, earlier this year.
But it would be best for him to head off with Evan Fournier and maybe a draft pick or two for a more established player. Maybe even with RJ!
But he is looking more like Kevin Knox 2.0.
I would have loved to have seen IQ and Randle sit this game. Let the even younger guys play some stout minutes.
and that is the kind of coaching move Pops would always seem to do. His starters don't have it, his bench fights back and he lets them finish out the game.
We probably lose anyway, but at least guys that were tired would have had a bit more rest.
fishmike wrote:man I was so pumped the night we drafted Obi. I really had wildly high expectations. Its also a lesson in getting extra picks and using the draft. Because of IQ it will go down as a great draft as he appears to be a truly ascending playing.Obi just isnt a good fit here. Its not a system thing, or a usage thing, its an Obi thing. He's finesse player and this is an attack the basket hit the boards and grind type of team and Obi just doesnt fit. Bummer but not every player is going to work out and overall Im very happy with the player development
I think it really is as simple as we drafted Obi to be our PF of the future and didn't plan on Randle making the jump he did his MIP season. We didn't have an identity as of the draft.
The longer this goes on, unfortunately I agree Obi is a square peg in a round hole. I still think he has a bright future, but short of trading Randle, I just don't see the fit here. It really is a shame with how excited he was to be a Knick and how much joy he exerts on a nightly basis.
If we sent Obi to Portland instead of Cam, I believe he'd be blowing up right now.
If we drafted IQ 8th instead we'd be happy.
Matt brings up good points about where we were when we drafted him and Randle yet to "break out".
We created an opportunity when we bought in Randle, and one with Obi. One needed to pan out and it did.
I can't imagine OBI not asking for a trade and a chance somewhere else. I hope he gets it.
With the extension IQ and Grimes are going to get along with Hart, expect the Knicks to use their picks for rookie contracts going forward unless a deal comes along for a star. We using that Dallas pick for a big or a wing. We bringing over Rokas next year or the next after,or trading his rights for a future first. If we can draft a replacement for Obi I guess we will and trade Obi for vet rotation piece like we have Knox and Cam with a first rounder over the summer or at the deadline. It is what it is, have to work with the cap next year
Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
I think (if Obi’s gone) we may replace back-up 4 with a veteran rather than a draft pick. One kid I’ve always liked who is more of a 4/5 is I-Stewart on Pistons who feels like a Thibs player. Haven’t thought of other options but someone who Thibs will want to give more than 10 mins per game.
As for Obi — when is he going to impact a game? How about one time a nasty dribble drive and dunk on someone?
How about 1 time a big time block or rebound or taking a charge or dive into the crowd? How about a post up — he’s basically crawled into the background. Thib own some of this sure BUT Thibs will play grinders (J Hart) so just think Obi is a softy. I do think he’d flourish with more minutes but he’s got todo more with the 10-15 he’s getting.
martin wrote:Not for nothing but it seemed like Randle was doing in-game load management, he barely was into it against Charlotte and didn't seem to break a sweat.He should have sat and Obi should have gotten those minutes.
Agreed - but Thibs just doesn’t role that way and on occasion it seems he should.
At same time Obi has played soft all year. Hell it took Hart 1 night to earn fans love — Obi needs to make some aggression plays —- something to get Thibs attention or he gone soon.
Won't argue that Obi needs to play better defense and rebound better but we are supposed to try to put players in their best positions/roles to succeed - so why have we not tried more minutes with him at the 3 spot? He isn't strong enough to guard beefy 4s so why not let him have a go vs SF's where he may have a height and speed advantage? He leaks out often which puts pressure on the opposingr team's defense and his rebounding challenges wouldn't be as impactful if Randle and Mitch are also in the lineup. He could help our (at times) slow pace and ball movement when we go iso-ball - assuming Thibs takes him out of timeouts in the corner. RJ isn't playing amazing defensively vs SFs these days anyway... I hope we could try this before he gets traded as he seems more like a Shawn Marion (offensively only) that can get garbage buckets, hit the occasional three and promotes a faster pace. He's a tweener!
Nalod wrote:If we drafted IQ 8th instead we'd be happy.
Matt brings up good points about where we were when we drafted him and Randle yet to "break out".
We created an opportunity when we bought in Randle, and one with Obi. One needed to pan out and it did.
I can't imagine OBI not asking for a trade and a chance somewhere else. I hope he gets it.
Yup. Have to look at it as IQ being a lottery value from this draft.
I doubt Obi isnt traded. Not enough production to justify another season. Not unless his game takes a big jump this season. Best shot for Obi (anywhere) is to play with a sense of urgency, and learn to score from anywhere.
