I doubt Obi isnt traded. Not enough production to justify another season. Not unless his game takes a big jump this season. Best shot for Obi (anywhere) is to play with a sense of urgency, and learn to score from anywhere.
There was talk about Indiana being interested in Toppin. They need a natural PF and he would fit nicely with Haliburton.
Chris Duarte is someone who the Knicks wanted badly in the draft 2 years ago and he’s repped by CAA. He’s struggled this season due to injury and increased wing depth in Indiana. I wonder if a simple Toppin for Duarte deal makes sense as both could use a change of scenery. Gives the Knicks an extra year of rookie contract too.
Knicks could run a second unit of Quickley, Hart, Duarte, Barrett and Hartenstein, and draft a backup PF (Kris Murray or Taylor Hendricks) for depth.
Knixkik wrote:There was talk about Indiana being interested in Toppin. They need a natural PF and he would fit nicely with Haliburton. Chris Duarte is someone who the Knicks wanted badly in the draft 2 years ago and he’s repped by CAA. He’s struggled this season due to injury and increased wing depth in Indiana. I wonder if a simple Toppin for Duarte deal makes sense as both could use a change of scenery. Gives the Knicks an extra year of rookie contract too.
Knicks could run a second unit of Quickley, Hart, Duarte, Barrett and Hartenstein, and draft a backup PF (Kris Murray or Taylor Hendricks) for depth.
My guess is JHart negates the need for Duarte if Grimes and IQ are still rostered in the future.
Toppin’s trade value? Late 1st, early second perhaps?
If we moving on, we moving on.
Our Dallas and Wiz picks is looking good these days. If so, there are so many angles to the off season its mind boggling.
Truth be told there should be nobody that is untouchable on this roster. But so easy to type those words than execute a valid proposal. Totally Plausible RJ was part of the DM trade talks but we held tight with a deadline and it sort of looks like it was his extension that told Utah to shit or get off the pot. Just a guess.
LIke everyone in the room we all hope RJ goes and sees whom ever Randle used in the off season to get his head back on right if in fact he has issues with the weight of his contract and breaking thru the glass ceiling he is stuck in.
RJ does not “suck”, he seems stuck.
Saying Obi is as good as gone and the FO actually finding a path to make that happen are entirely two different things. While he will likely not be extended, he is signed thru next season at a reasonable salary and is a serviceable backup currently in the rotation even if for only 14mpg. Someone will have to come in to grab his spot or a trade will have to appear where he can be packaged for a team upgrade. Otherwise IMO he will be back next season.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
I think this is it for me with Obi. Wasn't he the National Player of the Year? Or at that level in college?
I don't think I've seen that level of accomplishment as a player and then who came into the NBA like he didn't even want to shoot the ball. Crazy
Do you guys realize that 5 out of the last 12 National Players of the year have been on the Knicks? 
who are they?
Trey Burke, Jimmer Fredette, Doug McDermott, Jalen Brunson and Obi Toppin.
You got to email this to Cadillac!
Not for nothing but Obi has become a much better and willing 3 point shooter as well as improving his free throw shooting. Progress isn't linear. He still has a year left on his rookie deal so I don't see the rush. He's shown plenty of ability over his career to step up when needed, it just hasn't been needed so much. He's the only back up 4 on the roster. There's no guarantee that any rookie would play his role better.
I pretty much agree with the lack of rebounding being an issue. It seems like he needs to adjust his game and do those leakouts more selectively. Also, maybe he's still not 100% from his early season injury.
foosballnick wrote:Saying Obi is as good as gone and the FO actually finding a path to make that happen are entirely two different things. While he will likely not be extended, he is signed thru next season at a reasonable salary and is a serviceable backup currently in the rotation even if for only 14mpg. Someone will have to come in to grab his spot or a trade will have to appear where he can be packaged for a team upgrade. Otherwise IMO he will be back next season.
Im a big Obi fan. He's had to improve his game, with relatively little PT. What happens when you follow Randle.
Knowing who is ahead of Obi, and how much more work he needs on his game. I believe Obi's spot should be given to someone with more instant offense ability.
Im confident that Obi can be that player in time. But not on the Knicks, or in his current role. Obi needs more time with the ball in his hands. Doesnt look like he will get it in NY.
gradyandrew wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
I think this is it for me with Obi. Wasn't he the National Player of the Year? Or at that level in college?I don't think I've seen that level of accomplishment as a player and then who came into the NBA like he didn't even want to shoot the ball. Crazy
Do you guys realize that 5 out of the last 12 National Players of the year have been on the Knicks?
who are they?
Trey Burke, Jimmer Fredette, Doug McDermott, Jalen Brunson and Obi Toppin.
You got to email this to Cadillac!Not for nothing but Obi has become a much better and willing 3 point shooter as well as improving his free throw shooting. Progress isn't linear. He still has a year left on his rookie deal so I don't see the rush. He's shown plenty of ability over his career to step up when needed, it just hasn't been needed so much. He's the only back up 4 on the roster. There's no guarantee that any rookie would play his role better.
I pretty much agree with the lack of rebounding being an issue. It seems like he needs to adjust his game and do those leakouts more selectively. Also, maybe he's still not 100% from his early season injury.
But it's he? Is he actually a 4?
In what way, other than height?
Does he rebound? Does he guard PFs well?
Frankly, i don't know *what* position he plays other than that he comes in when JR sits...
Panos wrote:gradyandrew wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
I think this is it for me with Obi. Wasn't he the National Player of the Year? Or at that level in college?I don't think I've seen that level of accomplishment as a player and then who came into the NBA like he didn't even want to shoot the ball. Crazy
Do you guys realize that 5 out of the last 12 National Players of the year have been on the Knicks?
who are they?
Trey Burke, Jimmer Fredette, Doug McDermott, Jalen Brunson and Obi Toppin.
You got to email this to Cadillac!Not for nothing but Obi has become a much better and willing 3 point shooter as well as improving his free throw shooting. Progress isn't linear. He still has a year left on his rookie deal so I don't see the rush. He's shown plenty of ability over his career to step up when needed, it just hasn't been needed so much. He's the only back up 4 on the roster. There's no guarantee that any rookie would play his role better.
I pretty much agree with the lack of rebounding being an issue. It seems like he needs to adjust his game and do those leakouts more selectively. Also, maybe he's still not 100% from his early season injury.
But it's he? Is he actually a 4?
In what way, other than height?
Does he rebound? Does he guard PFs well?
Frankly, i don't know *what* position he plays other than that he comes in when JR sits...
Whoa whoa whoa. There is Julius, Ju, Randle. And then there is JR who is completely different.
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Ian Begley pitched that maybe the Knicks just offer him a contract (eventually) that matches his current role. While he deserves a bigger opportunity elsewhere, he does have a pretty good deal here. He’s guaranteed a rotation spot and has low pressure to just run with the second unit and shoot threes. He’s not doing much but maybe he just gets better. Knicks aren’t getting even a late first for him, so trading him will be tough for the same front office that drafted him in the lottery. If he wasn’t drafted by this front office he would be gone. While I don’t believe he’s particularly happy playing backup to the most durable PF in the league, I do think he likes playing in NYC and likes knowing he will have a guaranteed role every night. The Knicks have never rostered a third PF since he’s been with the team. That’s by design by this front office.
Knixkik wrote:Ian Begley pitched that maybe the Knicks just offer him a contract (eventually) that matches his current role. While he deserves a bigger opportunity elsewhere, he does have a pretty good deal here. He’s guaranteed a rotation spot and has low pressure to just run with the second unit and shoot threes. He’s not doing much but maybe he just gets better. Knicks aren’t getting even a late first for him, so trading him will be tough for the same front office that drafted him in the lottery. If he wasn’t drafted by this front office he would be gone. While I don’t believe he’s particularly happy playing backup to the most durable PF in the league, I do think he likes playing in NYC and likes knowing he will have a guaranteed role every night. The Knicks have never rostered a third PF since he’s been with the team. That’s by design by this front office.
I can't see Obi's agent being able to claim they deserve a bigger contract when players like Hachimura, Hyland, and Bey get traded for second rounders. I say they offer him a contract for a back up 4 who does not have positional versatility. Or they replace him with a vet or a player in the draft. Obi hasn't been a bust he just hasn't been a player that has over performed his draft spot. Number 8 overall picks don't turn out to be all that great over the years. It's a shame we drafted him over a few other players but if the Knicks don't keep him he did provide value on his rookie deal. Plus, I'm still a fan of his but just provide the most pessimistic appraisal I can have for him. Who knows next year he balls out in limited minutes and is a piece in a trade.
From the eye test, havent looked at the numbers. Lately, Obi is looking more aggressive with every game. He's attacking from different places on the court. Is more effective than in the corner.
This could be a game changer for Obi if he sticks with it.
I’m not a huge Obi fan but I am less of a Thibs fan and how he manages the team.
I will be the first to admit that we possibly haven’t seen the best version of Obi Toppin and the reason being is because Thibs insist on camping him on the corner whenever he’s playing……….I think………if he had half the freedom that Randle has, we may see a more productive player
Once Obi realizes that he just needs to attack the baseline, consistently put the ball down on the floor and get to the hoop the game is going to be so much easier.
You can see the difference between him and Josh Hart who is always attacking and always around the ball.
You can tell the kids confidence is at an all time low. His best case scenario every night is 15 and it doesn't matter how he plays.
It's a little upsetting that Thibs never gives him and Randle minutes together. At least switch things up.
Swishfm3 wrote:I’m not a huge Obi fan but I am less of a Thibs fan and how he manages the team.I will be the first to admit that we possibly haven’t seen the best version of Obi Toppin and the reason being is because Thibs insist on camping him on the corner whenever he’s playing……….I think………if he had half the freedom that Randle has, we may see a more productive player
Thibs is maximizing this team right now. Coming into this season no one said we had enough talent to do what this team is doing. Thibs is far more concerned with the team than finding the perfect role for Toppin, as all coaches should. I don’t see how this team can be managed in a way where they are more successful than they are now.
Knixkik wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:I’m not a huge Obi fan but I am less of a Thibs fan and how he manages the team.I will be the first to admit that we possibly haven’t seen the best version of Obi Toppin and the reason being is because Thibs insist on camping him on the corner whenever he’s playing……….I think………if he had half the freedom that Randle has, we may see a more productive player
Thibs is maximizing this team right now. Coming into this season no one said we had enough talent to do what this team is doing. Thibs is far more concerned with the team than finding the perfect role for Toppin, as all coaches should. I don’t see how this team can be managed in a way where they are more successful than they are now.
Randle the all star
Brunson possible MIP, should have been all star
IQ possible 6MOY
Grimes playing within range of all defensive team especially for ISO D
Mitch playing within range of all defensive team D, best one of the best offensive rebounders in league
Knicks have 7th best record in league.
Knicks top 10 in both offense and defense efficiency but I havnet checked recently
Thibs is probably in top 5 for COY votes
But Obi?
MS wrote:Once Obi realizes that he just needs to attack the baseline, consistently put the ball down on the floor and get to the hoop the game is going to be so much easier.You can see the difference between him and Josh Hart who is always attacking and always around the ball.
You can tell the kids confidence is at an all time low. His best case scenario every night is 15 and it doesn't matter how he plays.
It's a little upsetting that Thibs never gives him and Randle minutes together. At least switch things up.
Not all on a team will thrive. I don't know obi like you do to tell if his confidence is at an all time low.
This is not rec ball and everyone plays. He gets paid a lot of money for his efforts. If other teams see his potential as you do, they will trade for him.
Your commentary is like a parent whose kid is entitled. I can see your point if the team was failing. Last year the chant for the yoot to play was because were were not going anywhere, might as well play the kids!
The ones that play earned their time and contracts. We start two 22 year olds, bring a 23 off the bench who will get considerations for 6th man.
Maybe OBI is just not good enough to knock Randles minutes down and not able to play other positions.
Not my thoughts BTW. Personally I like the kid and want him blow the doors off, but this is what it is and it seems reasonable.
We are winning more than not. We are exceeding most expectations for the season.
MS wrote:Once Obi realizes that he just needs to attack the baseline, consistently put the ball down on the floor and get to the hoop the game is going to be so much easier.You can see the difference between him and Josh Hart who is always attacking and always around the ball.
You can tell the kids confidence is at an all time low. His best case scenario every night is 15 and it doesn't matter how he plays.
It's a little upsetting that Thibs never gives him and Randle minutes together. At least switch things up.
why... wtf should Obi get minutes over Hart/Mitch/Sims... what has Obi done to earn that aside from get drafted in the lottery? What does Obi do that will help us win games over those guys? Since you are upset by this please share your feelings. If nothing Im curious
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:I’m not a huge Obi fan but I am less of a Thibs fan and how he manages the team.I will be the first to admit that we possibly haven’t seen the best version of Obi Toppin and the reason being is because Thibs insist on camping him on the corner whenever he’s playing……….I think………if he had half the freedom that Randle has, we may see a more productive player
Thibs is maximizing this team right now. Coming into this season no one said we had enough talent to do what this team is doing. Thibs is far more concerned with the team than finding the perfect role for Toppin, as all coaches should. I don’t see how this team can be managed in a way where they are more successful than they are now.
Randle the all star
Brunson possible MIP, should have been all star
IQ possible 6MOY
Grimes playing within range of all defensive team especially for ISO D
Mitch playing within range of all defensive team D, best one of the best offensive rebounders in league
Knicks have 7th best record in league.
Knicks top 10 in both offense and defense efficiency but I havnet checked recently
Thibs is probably in top 5 for COY votes
But Obi?
Exactly. I swear I still read people some places suggesting to find Toppin more minutes because he can’t perform in the ones he has. It’s backwards. He needs to up his game to find more minutes in the rotation, simple as that.
I found the "half the freedom" comment interesting. Obi is assisted on 80% of his 2 pt fgs vs. Randle at 43%. Maybe that's why.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:I’m not a huge Obi fan but I am less of a Thibs fan and how he manages the team.I will be the first to admit that we possibly haven’t seen the best version of Obi Toppin and the reason being is because Thibs insist on camping him on the corner whenever he’s playing……….I think………if he had half the freedom that Randle has, we may see a more productive player
Thibs is maximizing this team right now. Coming into this season no one said we had enough talent to do what this team is doing. Thibs is far more concerned with the team than finding the perfect role for Toppin, as all coaches should. I don’t see how this team can be managed in a way where they are more successful than they are now.
Randle the all star
Brunson possible MIP, should have been all star
IQ possible 6MOY
Grimes playing within range of all defensive team especially for ISO D
Mitch playing within range of all defensive team D, best one of the best offensive rebounders in league
Knicks have 7th best record in league.
Knicks top 10 in both offense and defense efficiency but I havnet checked recently
Thibs is probably in top 5 for COY votes
But Obi?
Exactly. I swear I still read people some places suggesting to find Toppin more minutes because he can’t perform in the ones he has. It’s backwards. He needs to up his game to find more minutes in the rotation, simple as that.
Check the receipts. I have never been one to say that Thibs should “find” min for Obi.
all I am suggesting is that maybe if he stops camping Obi in a corner, and give him a little more free range, we may see a different player that can contribute meaningful minutes and, maybe, Thibs wouldn’t feel a need to run Randle for 38min a night.
