Is it better for the team to get Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan, or Jerimi Grant if the team is going to go for a vet 3 to suppliment or replace RJ RJ has been playing much better but what he does well in driving to the basket DD and JB do much better Would they play better with Brunson and Randal or do we stay with RJ and go after another Dog who can play the 3/4 off the bench.
Jerimi Grant- and I don't think it's close for me- Grant, I think, would fit better, is younger and probably fits better.
If as free agent, who leaves if space need be created?
If trade, who leaves and the void?
And we assume RJ never gets better, all the while Derozen and Butler never decline age injuries?
Grant fits a lot of nice boxes to check. Im not up on his defensive capacity. His pt avg is the same as RJ’s.
The the question is can RJ in the next two years come close to Grants shooting and contributions?
I would Think Grants numbers might drop on a good team. Lets be real, his time in Portland and Detroit he played on some stinkers and numbers were inflated. Denver was a good run for one season which got him paid.
RJ has one thorn to his game and its his long range %. He is coming along nice and the team is doing very well WITH HIM.
Josh Hart gives us JImmy Butler like intangibles at a fraction of the cost. Butlers contract is big. Very big.
Derozen long range shooting has never been a big part of his game.
Derozan too ball dominant and non-defender
Grant has never been a winner unless I’m forgetting and disappears offensively
Butler is as Thibs a player as there has ever been - yes he’s old but I think he’s the most legit in a short term 2-3 year window. His #s have been better than ever, he’s clutch, gets to the line and can also fit in.
I’d say Butler of these 3 and yes I understand he’s OLD.
Another guy I thought of that’s not a star but would be a Thibs guy is Lou Dort for RJ. Could make our D elite with some 3 point shooting at least better vs RJ
Dort avg’s 14 pts per. Shoots 34% from three.
Rj’s career avg is that including his shit 30% year he is having. His sophmore year he shot 40%.
D’andre Hunter is oft injured shoots 35% for his career.
Dort does miss 20 games a season. He is just a year older than RJ, he is build like a linebacker, and is “thick”.
Not sure he is an upgrade we seek.
FO has to look at who might be the best player at age 25.
Steps. If RJ can get to 35-36% with his other game in tact is the big question. His defense has picked back up.
At 22 he has time. While not stuck in his ways, he has two new starters to work with, still avgs 20 a game, and the team is winning!!!!! Not sure why the fan urgency discuss change when the price to do so is not mentioned.
I'm on team RJ on the record I think he can improve his 3 pt shot. It's the midrange shot he needs to work on as well . He has range to improve on offense. Bit if we can turn surplus pics and contracts to get a vet to back up RJ and Julius we should
none... too old, too old and Grant isnt good enough. He's a better scorer than RJ but not by enough, he's gonna likely cost (or want) more than RJ's contract and Grant isnt a great defender.
IF we move away from RJ I would prefer a big SF who can play some PF as well and is an elite defender, or at least very good. I would look for offense from somewhere else... Grimes/IQ/Hart for example
At a minimum I want to stay under 30. So Grant is the only possibility. I don’t get why DeRozan was mentioned but not LaVine. LaVine is younger than everyone mentioned, the best shooter in the bunch, and at least a better defender than DeRozan. He’s the only real consideration to me. He plays enough SF to qualify.
LaVine claimed to be one of the better on ball defenders in the league the other day —— not something I’ve heard him noted for previously.
LaVine would definitely give us a legit shot maker and if given RJ’s minutes/shot attempts would probably be much more efficient.
I think LaVine comes down to exactly what Thibs thinks of him. If he thinks he’s tough minded and coachable we will kick the tires this summer.
Nalod wrote:Dort avg’s 14 pts per. Shoots 34% from three.
Rj’s career avg is that including his shit 30% year he is having. His sophmore year he shot 40%.
D’andre Hunter is oft injured shoots 35% for his career.
Dort does miss 20 games a season. He is just a year older than RJ, he is build like a linebacker, and is “thick”.
Not sure he is an upgrade we seek.
FO has to look at who might be the best player at age 25.
Steps. If RJ can get to 35-36% with his other game in tact is the big question. His defense has picked back up.
At 22 he has time. While not stuck in his ways, he has two new starters to work with, still avgs 20 a game, and the team is winning!!!!! Not sure why the fan urgency discuss change when the price to do so is not mentioned.
Yep - not sure Dort is an option just thinking of defenders who Thibs would trust/play but Dort often up and down offensively - plus good points on his missing games.
Regarding RJ his overall plus/minus should tell you why many fans would prefer to swap him out. Most of his advanced metrics - not to mention 3 point shooting are really poor. One could argue we’d be in 4th right now with a more efficient/ better defender replacing RJ minutes.
I don’t dislike RJ the kid - but his game is clunky as hell imo - judge him on his overall metrics.
Last point referencing 20 pt avg on lots of shots with poor efficiency isn’t a positive- imo.
OG (Tor) and Hunter (Atl) are the two guys I would pay for. By "pay" I mean flip RJ and another minor asset or two to add him. Prolly wouldnt be a direct trade.
We have gluts of useful players
PG Brunson/IQ/McBride/Rose/Rokus
SG Grimes/Hart/RJ/Fournier
Rose/Fournier are "useful" mostly as expiring deals but Fournier could help a team that needs shooting.
does it make sense to start next with with IQ/Brunson/McBride with minimal avenue for playing time for McBride who is blkexec's favorite player?
Do we keep starting Grimes/RJ when IQ/Hart might be better?
They are good problems to have and I do think we can afford to "run it back" considering the improvement we have seen under Thibs for both youth and vets
So if I could flip RJ and use McBride/Rokus in something that gets me OG or Hunter I would be very happy with that
Nalod wrote:If as free agent, who leaves if space need be created?
If trade, who leaves and the void?
And we assume RJ never gets better, all the while Derozen and Butler never decline age injuries?
Grant fits a lot of nice boxes to check. Im not up on his defensive capacity. His pt avg is the same as RJ’s.
The the question is can RJ in the next two years come close to Grants shooting and contributions?
I would Think Grants numbers might drop on a good team. Lets be real, his time in Portland and Detroit he played on some stinkers and numbers were inflated. Denver was a good run for one season which got him paid.
RJ has one thorn to his game and its his long range %. He is coming along nice and the team is doing very well WITH HIM.
Josh Hart gives us JImmy Butler like intangibles at a fraction of the cost. Butlers contract is big. Very big.
Derozen long range shooting has never been a big part of his game.
So I have not looked at stats, but if they are close or have similar stats, I would go with Grant because he's longer and fits the 3&D roll.
RJ is in a separate category to me. Sometimes he looks over matched at SF or too slow at SG, as far as defense. On offense, I think his ability to break down a defense is extremely valuable. And playing him with the second unit is great. But that means Hart / Grimes will play SF and IQ plays SG in the 4th quarter. Most SF like Grant or better, will shoot over Hart or Grimes. So I believe Grant is the type of size we need on the wing and he's a 3pt threat. If we add Grant, he will mostlikely start or finish games in the 4th. That means Grimes or RJ will take a hit. If Grant is the missing piece and if we believe he will have a similar fit and impact as Hart, then you find a way to get him on board.
The main priority is to win a chip. If Grants gets us closer to that goal (he's 28/29 same age as Randle), then you add him. If not, then keep developing within and hope RJ continues to develop into that missing piece.
LivingLegend wrote:LaVine claimed to be one of the better on ball defenders in the league the other day —— not something I’ve heard him noted for previously. LaVine would definitely give us a legit shot maker and if given RJ’s minutes/shot attempts would probably be much more efficient.
I think LaVine comes down to exactly what Thibs thinks of him. If he thinks he’s tough minded and coachable we will kick the tires this summer.
My understanding is LaVine is a pretty decent man defender. He’s long and quick. His issue is off-ball awareness. Thibs coached him so it will be up to him I’m sure. The fact he’s been rumored to the Knicks means thibs probably likes him. My opinion is this team isn’t very good without Brunson. They can survive when Quickley and Barrett go off but generally the bad habits of Randle come out. LaVine solves a lot of that. If we go for an upgrade he’s the guy.
Knixkik wrote:LivingLegend wrote:LaVine claimed to be one of the better on ball defenders in the league the other day —— not something I’ve heard him noted for previously. LaVine would definitely give us a legit shot maker and if given RJ’s minutes/shot attempts would probably be much more efficient.
I think LaVine comes down to exactly what Thibs thinks of him. If he thinks he’s tough minded and coachable we will kick the tires this summer.
My understanding is LaVine is a pretty decent man defender. He’s long and quick. His issue is off-ball awareness. Thibs coached him so it will be up to him I’m sure. The fact he’s been rumored to the Knicks means thibs probably likes him. My opinion is this team isn’t very good without Brunson. They can survive when Quickley and Barrett go off but generally the bad habits of Randle come out. LaVine solves a lot of that. If we go for an upgrade he’s the guy.
Zach is hurt a ton, really a SG and makes $40mm+ a year. Cost would have to to be REALLY favorable. Like would you include IQ or Mitch? Picks? He's good but not sure he's good enough considering the cost and current depth at that position.
Ingram is the guy I would go hard for. He misses about the same number of games Zach does, but he's a true 3, cheaper (2 more years) and might cost less. Their big problem is depth. I would think getting back guys like McBride/Obi with RJ would be enticing for Ingram and not cost us draft comp. When he gets hurt Hart can play there and you go heavy with 3 guard line ups (I want to keep IQ)
I’m not in a rush to give up RJ.
He’s not close to entering his prime he’s still young and still figuring it out.
Teams get real old, real quick in this league and we need to keep pace with younger teams like Orlando, Detriot and Indy.
Team is in a good position and none of those guys puts us over the top. OG and Hunter are always injured especially DJ.
MS wrote:I’m not in a rush to give up RJ. He’s not close to entering his prime he’s still young and still figuring it out.
Teams get real old, real quick in this league and we need to keep pace with younger teams like Orlando, Detriot and Indy.
Team is in a good position and none of those guys puts us over the top. OG and Hunter are always injured especially DJ.
what??? I thought the FO "had no plan"
Feel Butler and Derozan would create a problem as it would add yet another player that needs the ball in their hands often. Although I do like their abilities to close and ability to get buckets. They are also both clutch in big moments. Butler is FA but would cost over $40M. Which ties up a lot of cap on a 34 year old. He will also want to ring chase and probably only sign for a reasonable price if he knows he will get a chip. Derozan still has another year and I am not sure we want to give a lot of assets for a guy that is 33.
My choice would be Grant. Been asking for the Knicks to add him for some time. He fits our timeline in terms of age (29)and he can shoot the three. Which would compliment JB and JR well. He would also be able to play both PF and SF positions. Biggest reason is that he is a free agent. Rumor is that the Blazzers offered $112M for 4 years. It could take $120M for four? Or perhaps he wants to come to NY? But like JB, it wont cost any draft picks or assets.
However, unless we are adding a true number one (not sure any of these still are) maybe we should go with a two way wing. Someone that will compliment JB and JR well, defend and shoot the three. Liked the idea of OG. Good open three percentage and good defender. However, not liking the rumored price in terms of assets.
fishmike wrote:OG (Tor) and Hunter (Atl) are the two guys I would pay for. By "pay" I mean flip RJ and another minor asset or two to add him. Prolly wouldnt be a direct trade.We have gluts of useful players
PG Brunson/IQ/McBride/Rose/Rokus
SG Grimes/Hart/RJ/Fournier
Rose/Fournier are "useful" mostly as expiring deals but Fournier could help a team that needs shooting.
does it make sense to start next with with IQ/Brunson/McBride with minimal avenue for playing time for McBride who is blkexec's favorite player?
Do we keep starting Grimes/RJ when IQ/Hart might be better?
They are good problems to have and I do think we can afford to "run it back" considering the improvement we have seen under Thibs for both youth and vets
So if I could flip RJ and use McBride/Rokus in something that gets me OG or Hunter I would be very happy with that
OG is the better fit...I live in Atlanta and have seen Hunter quite a bit. He's very inconsistent, seems to always be hurt or knicked up (another reason why he's inconsistent), he vanishes on the offensive end (not very aggressive) and the fans consider him a dispointment this year for. He whows flashes, but if the choice is between him and OG, its OG all day.
Can get none of the above?
