Knicks · [Game Thread 3/23/23] Knicks at Magic 7PM (page 6)
franco12 wrote:besides missing Jalen, I wonder if some of the guys are tired/burned out. I mean RJ can't get by anyone. On defense, guys look like their feet are in cememt.My biggest concern with Thibs has been him burning guys out so when they get to the playoffs, they have zero left.
That win streak and great play was our guys overachieving. They simply have nothing left to give.
Hence teams lighting us up from 3.
Fundamentally, drive and kick works if you have good 3pt shooters, which we don't have.
The roster does look tired. Not sure what the solution is. Maybe give Julius and RJ a coach’s DNP for one game. Home facing Rockets would be the ideal game to do it. They do this in mlb all the time and no one bats an eye. We are trying to keep the 5th seed however
It's frustrating we've almost ruined that win streak and hype right at the end of the season. This is when you want to be playing your best basketball going into the playoffs and we just look like a fugazi team that hot and had a fluke win streak. And I'm not sure we win this game even with Brunson.
The defense continues to be a major issue. Combo of effort, IQ and execution. We did a good job of coming back but the defense in the 4th was brutal.
Gave up 36 points and like a gazzlion threes.
Extremely disappointed in Randle. He just doesn't learn. I'm done making jokes about it. It's a big issue. And I got a bad feeling he's going to have a repeat of the Atlanta series. He just cannot seem to handle extreme pressure or adversity. Yes, it was a foul man but WTF is constantly crying to the zebra going to do? Does he think they are magically going to change their minds?! And to get mad at a teammate for trying to calm down the situation just makes it 100x worse. So wish Thibs had the guts to step in and suspend him for a game. Let him know this shit is not alright.
Grimes was the only bright side. He's been on the last two games. Rob had a good game too.
Maybe this team is scared of Cleveland and prefers to play Philly or Boston? Anyway it doesn't matter. We are getting sent home quick if we don't fix the defense and get Brunson healthy.
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Yes, RJ was bad here but why are we ISOing with over 13 seconds left on the damn clock? With an already known inefficient player and 0 player movement. The same thing with ISO Randle. This is how we end up with the other players having terrible touches in games. Do we expect them to be in rhythm when they barely get touches? Player movement is how you break down defenses. Every player moving is a decision point that could cause a mistake. Here everyone was just watching RJ fumble the ball. The only decision was when to start running for the fast break to score an easy two points.
He is delusional and coach keeps running him out there so some delusional fans can say he’s averaging this many points so he must be good. Kid could make 3 straight game winners and he’s still worst player in our top 8 (Deuce included). I’d take 34 mins of Deuce every night over RJ trash every time.
Obi seems checked out and as soft as he is I don’t blame him — criminal we haven’t developed him into 20 min per night weapon.
Oh well - some tough games still coming up and Miami game is 1 key.
I get it. Its part of the collective fan experience here.
Grimes last night was great and we celebrate. They are the same age.
Same for Duece.
RJ has the contract, the pedigree, and as a 4 year starter expectations are high.
Is it a problem? I see it. Solution? "Hope".....LOL.
Coach had faith in others and its panning out. Same for Brunson, he has exceeded but that was a big number we gave him.
Faith.
fishmike wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can’t handle, pass or shoot — he is a confident mofo though I’ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game —-it’s laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.
franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can’t handle, pass or shoot — he is a confident mofo though I’ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game —-it’s laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.
Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
blkexec wrote:franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can’t handle, pass or shoot — he is a confident mofo though I’ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game —-it’s laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.
Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
If team wanted him to finish strong to the rim, and near elite get the FT line like Big Jimmy Butler he has succeeded. Much improved.
If team wanted him to finish better with his right hand, he is.
The midrange game? Better. Points in the paint, much better.
3pt range? Oye!!!!!!
Dribble thru traffic? Its new this year. Its a bit in need of tweeking.
I can't pinpoint his issues as astute as some of you can or pretend to. Is he heavy, or did he bulk up? Out of shape? I find that hard to believe his reputation for putting in the work.
RJ is not a raw fast guy, he is fundamentally sound and gets it done that way.
I don't have a prescription for what ails him, but Lazy is not apparent.
My hope is he is in one of those "Two steps back, 10 steps forward" Kind of thing.
I wonder what changed?
fishmike wrote:Knicks didnt look tired or burnt out a week ago vs. the Nuggets.I wonder what changed?
More games without Brunson, means more work for the rest of the rotation.
Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:If team wanted him to finish strong to the rim, and near elite get the FT line like Big Jimmy Butler he has succeeded. Much improved.franco12 wrote:Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.fishmike wrote:I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can;t handle, pass or shoot he is a confident mofo though I;ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game is laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
If team wanted him to finish better with his right hand, he is.
The midrange game? Better. Points in the paint, much better.
3pt range? Oye!!!!!!
Dribble thru traffic? Its new this year. Its a bit in need of tweeking.
I can't pinpoint his issues as astute as some of you can or pretend to. Is he heavy, or did he bulk up? Out of shape? I find that hard to believe his reputation for putting in the work.
RJ is not a raw fast guy, he is fundamentally sound and gets it done that way.
I don't have a prescription for what ails him, but Lazy is not apparent.
My hope is he is in one of those ;Two steps back, 10 steps forwardt; Kind of thing.
Fundamentally sound? Really?
That's not what I see. Sure, he can get to the hoop and lay it in. But his turnovers, dribble, lack of vision and defense are not marks of "fundamentally sound"
He's been a pro ball player for three years. Just so I know, when is it OK to criticize him?
Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:If team wanted him to finish strong to the rim, and near elite get the FT line like Big Jimmy Butler he has succeeded. Much improved.franco12 wrote:Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.fishmike wrote:I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can;t handle, pass or shoot he is a confident mofo though I;ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game is laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
If team wanted him to finish better with his right hand, he is.
The midrange game? Better. Points in the paint, much better.
3pt range? Oye!!!!!!
Dribble thru traffic? Its new this year. Its a bit in need of tweeking.
I can't pinpoint his issues as astute as some of you can or pretend to. Is he heavy, or did he bulk up? Out of shape? I find that hard to believe his reputation for putting in the work.
RJ is not a raw fast guy, he is fundamentally sound and gets it done that way.
I don't have a prescription for what ails him, but Lazy is not apparent.
My hope is he is in one of those ;Two steps back, 10 steps forwardt; Kind of thing.Fundamentally sound? Really?
That's not what I see. Sure, he can get to the hoop and lay it in. But his turnovers, dribble, lack of vision and defense are not marks of "fundamentally sound"He's been a pro ball player for three years. Just so I know, when is it OK to criticize him?
Two more seasons……….25 years old.
Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:If team wanted him to finish strong to the rim, and near elite get the FT line like Big Jimmy Butler he has succeeded. Much improved.franco12 wrote:Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.fishmike wrote:I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can;t handle, pass or shoot he is a confident mofo though I;ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game is laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
If team wanted him to finish better with his right hand, he is.
The midrange game? Better. Points in the paint, much better.
3pt range? Oye!!!!!!
Dribble thru traffic? Its new this year. Its a bit in need of tweeking.
I can't pinpoint his issues as astute as some of you can or pretend to. Is he heavy, or did he bulk up? Out of shape? I find that hard to believe his reputation for putting in the work.
RJ is not a raw fast guy, he is fundamentally sound and gets it done that way.
I don't have a prescription for what ails him, but Lazy is not apparent.
My hope is he is in one of those ;Two steps back, 10 steps forwardt; Kind of thing.Fundamentally sound? Really?
That's not what I see. Sure, he can get to the hoop and lay it in. But his turnovers, dribble, lack of vision and defense are not marks of "fundamentally sound"He's been a pro ball player for three years. Just so I know, when is it OK to criticize him?
Two more seasons……….25 years old.
Isn't that how old OG is and he is till considered someone who we should trade for because he can get better and be a star?
joec32033 wrote:Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:If team wanted him to finish strong to the rim, and near elite get the FT line like Big Jimmy Butler he has succeeded. Much improved.franco12 wrote:Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.fishmike wrote:I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can;t handle, pass or shoot he is a confident mofo though I;ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game is laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
If team wanted him to finish better with his right hand, he is.
The midrange game? Better. Points in the paint, much better.
3pt range? Oye!!!!!!
Dribble thru traffic? Its new this year. Its a bit in need of tweeking.
I can't pinpoint his issues as astute as some of you can or pretend to. Is he heavy, or did he bulk up? Out of shape? I find that hard to believe his reputation for putting in the work.
RJ is not a raw fast guy, he is fundamentally sound and gets it done that way.
I don't have a prescription for what ails him, but Lazy is not apparent.
My hope is he is in one of those ;Two steps back, 10 steps forwardt; Kind of thing.Fundamentally sound? Really?
That's not what I see. Sure, he can get to the hoop and lay it in. But his turnovers, dribble, lack of vision and defense are not marks of "fundamentally sound"He's been a pro ball player for three years. Just so I know, when is it OK to criticize him?
Two more seasons……….25 years old.
Isn't that how old OG is and he is till considered someone who we should trade for because he can get better and be a star?
Its not that OG can be a star but that he is a better fit. He is a better defender and doesn't need the ball to help the team win. He is another Josh Hart. RJ Barrett plays losing basketball. If we can move him in a trade with draft picks we should do it.
Jmpasq wrote:joec32033 wrote:Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:If team wanted him to finish strong to the rim, and near elite get the FT line like Big Jimmy Butler he has succeeded. Much improved.franco12 wrote:Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.fishmike wrote:I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can;t handle, pass or shoot he is a confident mofo though I;ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game is laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
If team wanted him to finish better with his right hand, he is.
The midrange game? Better. Points in the paint, much better.
3pt range? Oye!!!!!!
Dribble thru traffic? Its new this year. Its a bit in need of tweeking.
I can't pinpoint his issues as astute as some of you can or pretend to. Is he heavy, or did he bulk up? Out of shape? I find that hard to believe his reputation for putting in the work.
RJ is not a raw fast guy, he is fundamentally sound and gets it done that way.
I don't have a prescription for what ails him, but Lazy is not apparent.
My hope is he is in one of those ;Two steps back, 10 steps forwardt; Kind of thing.Fundamentally sound? Really?
That's not what I see. Sure, he can get to the hoop and lay it in. But his turnovers, dribble, lack of vision and defense are not marks of "fundamentally sound"He's been a pro ball player for three years. Just so I know, when is it OK to criticize him?
Two more seasons……….25 years old.
Isn't that how old OG is and he is till considered someone who we should trade for because he can get better and be a star?
Its not that OG can be a star but that he is a better fit. He is a better defender and doesn't need the ball to help the team win. He is another Josh Hart. RJ Barrett plays losing basketball. If we can move him in a trade with draft picks we should do it.
RJ has been on teams with winning records while an All star like Haliburton has never whiffed a winning record and once he was traded his former team took off. I am not saying RJ is a better prospect then Haliburton or that Haliburton is a losing player. I say it to say shouldn't call RJ a losing player. We might need a better fit for the team but let's not label RJ a losing player. We should get the 11 or 12 pick, ( hear that basketball God's ) so that we can trade for a young wing or draft one, that fits. But I tell ya if we trade RJ wouldn't it suck if he finally puts it all together on an other team and we suffer from that for years
Alpha1971 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:joec32033 wrote:Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:If team wanted him to finish strong to the rim, and near elite get the FT line like Big Jimmy Butler he has succeeded. Much improved.franco12 wrote:Like Mitch did last year, RJ probably started the season a little heavy. But you would think by now, he should've shed some weight, just based on an 82 game season. But I don't think it's a weight issue. I just don't think he's a good #2 or #3. He's better in a #1 role. But Randle and Brunson took over that role.fishmike wrote:I think RJ is tired - possibly not fit, not putting in the kind of work these athletes need just to stay good, let alone great.LivingLegend wrote:I watch these games and RJ sticks out like a flaming turd.If I say it Im an RJ hater. It was so bad. The problem is when he's not scoring he's just so bad. Its the next big thing for the FO/Thibs to fix IMOSorry but kid is brutal defender, can;t handle, pass or shoot he is a confident mofo though I;ll give him that.
Thibs wets himself trying to get RJ back in game is laughable.
Obi with nice -25 tonight but will give him benefit of doubt because he played with RJ most of time.
RJ can win you games, even shooting inefficiently. But as the 3rd wheel, you have to be efficient. Grimes is a perfect 3rd wheel type player for this team. Efficient catch and shoot player. Randle / Brunson is doubled, Grimes knows how to find those open lanes for his smooth catch and shoot plays.
If team wanted him to finish better with his right hand, he is.
The midrange game? Better. Points in the paint, much better.
3pt range? Oye!!!!!!
Dribble thru traffic? Its new this year. Its a bit in need of tweeking.
I can't pinpoint his issues as astute as some of you can or pretend to. Is he heavy, or did he bulk up? Out of shape? I find that hard to believe his reputation for putting in the work.
RJ is not a raw fast guy, he is fundamentally sound and gets it done that way.
I don't have a prescription for what ails him, but Lazy is not apparent.
My hope is he is in one of those ;Two steps back, 10 steps forwardt; Kind of thing.Fundamentally sound? Really?
That's not what I see. Sure, he can get to the hoop and lay it in. But his turnovers, dribble, lack of vision and defense are not marks of "fundamentally sound"He's been a pro ball player for three years. Just so I know, when is it OK to criticize him?
Two more seasons……….25 years old.
Isn't that how old OG is and he is till considered someone who we should trade for because he can get better and be a star?
Its not that OG can be a star but that he is a better fit. He is a better defender and doesn't need the ball to help the team win. He is another Josh Hart. RJ Barrett plays losing basketball. If we can move him in a trade with draft picks we should do it.
RJ has been on teams with winning records while an All star like Haliburton has never whiffed a winning record and once he was traded his former team took off. I am not saying RJ is a better prospect then Haliburton or that Haliburton is a losing player. I say it to say shouldn't call RJ a losing player. We might need a better fit for the team but let's not label RJ a losing player. We should get the 11 or 12 pick, ( hear that basketball God's ) so that we can trade for a young wing or draft one, that fits. But I tell ya if we trade RJ wouldn't it suck if he finally puts it all together on an other team and we suffer from that for years
This is well put. As blkexec said about 9 posts above this that maybe RJ isnt a #3. Maybe he does perform better as a 1 or a 2. Given the small sample size, he was performing better as a 1 or a 2 (at the very least no one bitched about him as much they do this season)and is having problems adjusting to being a 3. And that is fine. Maybe he does need to move on to fulfill whatever he can become.
Right now he doesn't put up the gaudy numbers Randle puts up. Or have the consistency and presence that Brunson does. So maybe right now he is where he needs to be and I think the problem is he is not adjusting well to that (for whatever reason). I also think there is a double standard in that his critics say he he a number 3, yet are criticizing him for not performing like a number 1.
Not many number 3's do what RJ can and is capable of doing. Remember when Bosh went to Miami as a number 3 and everyone used to ask what happened to him. Hell how many #3 options can we actually name on teams right now?
Who is the clear cut #3 in Boston after Brown and Tatum? What about Sacramento after Sabonis and Fox? Cleveland after Mitchell and Garland? Denver after Jokic and Murray? Memphis after Ja and Bane? Portland after Dame and Reddish (sorry....just kidding!)
Point being some of the some of the best teams in the league don't have a clear cut #3 that can average 20 a night. Toronto has Siakim and Fred and OG and OG wants out because he feels he isn't used enough. NO has Ingram, Zion and CJ and Zion literally never plays so McCollumn is basically a 2. Philly has Embiid, Harden and who, Maxey (the hype sure died around him, huh?)?
Maybe the only solid #3 is Paul on PHX now, and even then-he is Chris Paul-but he is declining. The Clippers just got Westbrook and he is only averaging 14 a game.
I just don't think you can have it both ways-taking RJ because he is the most relateable example. You can love him or hate him. You can like his fit or not like his fit. You can't say the guy is a #3 or #4 or whatever, because he has faults in his game, then cry when he doesn't perform like a 1.
FVV is sort of Brunsonish.
Siakim is RandleIsh.
OG is better than RJish.
Better fit? I don’t know. How much money will he want. The picks?
100 ways to get better. WHo knows the right way.
But OG better than RJ? In some ways, yes. On some ways, no.