Knicks · Our season is over. What is your RX for the team in the offseason? (page 5)

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

Doesn't Brunson have a lot of similarities to Kyle Lowry? Brunson is 26 and Kyle is 37, so I don't really see the immediate rush.

I agree some moves can be made but the open concept of “we need to…” is vague. Im cool with a lot of moves but think continuity of Brunson-Randle-RJ is something. If IQ is not to take JB’s roll then he wants to, and will be traded for all to benefit. Grimes can still develop off the bench very nicely should we land a Beal/Lavine type at the 2. If RJ is to ascend to the level of a Beal/Lavine then I don’t trade him. Thats a matter of opinion by the FO. If you can get a player with keeping the core then perhaps. Maybe its Simmons on Portland? The key is getting a player before they break out. The key is getting a player that can Thrive in a system and culture. Like FA Randle and FA JB has. Josh Hart has not “thrived” but the knicks have with him. Even more important.
Gary Trent JR? Cheap deal for Gordon Haywood? (EF and OBI)….. Smaller moves.
I do believe last year, and again now that Mitch offensively is stagnating Randle and RJ to some extent. Thats one guy they can only lob to. Im a fan, love the defense, the rebounding when he is physically over powering. But Playoff ball is different. Your facing other really good teams night after night. Mitch can’t go to Minny in a trade directly were Rudy exists. Media can talk about it but they leave that out. I’d like to see KAT with Randle. Not replace him. Not sure the price to upgrade is a good ideal. Would cost more than just Randle. Thats Why Ayton trade could work. They need a PG, Center, and back up forward. We got that for them. Does Ayton have the soul to work with Thibs? I don’t know.
1_+ 1=3. If FO don’t think it, it won’t get done. yes, if Giannis or Luka shake loose you pay up. That I get.

franco12 wrote:Anyone mention Brook Lopez? FA, if I understand correctly. Still producing at a great level. Could be fantastic off the bench- and I think his brother is available too! I would sign them both.

RoPez looks cooked off the bench for Cav’s. Maybe as insurance were Sims sits?
BroPez can still play but not sure he off the bench quite yet.
Obviously one of Ihart or mitch goes? If so, that could be a good stop gap move.

gradyandrew wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

Doesn't Brunson have a lot of similarities to Kyle Lowry? Brunson is 26 and Kyle is 37, so I don't really see the immediate rush.

Kyle Lowry started declining at around age 30 though (just looking at his year to year stats). So yeah, it's possible Brunson's game could last into his 30s. But his window as an offensive engine is much shorter.

franco12 wrote:Anyone mention Brook Lopez? FA, if I understand correctly. Still producing at a great level. Could be fantastic off the bench- and I think his brother is available too! I would sign them both.

Just turned 35 and you know what, this would be such a sneaky stealth sweet move if you could convince him to come over on the MLE.

3 years at what would be $12M, $13M, $14M?

Reasonable?

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Anyone mention Brook Lopez? FA, if I understand correctly. Still producing at a great level. Could be fantastic off the bench- and I think his brother is available too! I would sign them both.

Just turned 35 and you know what, this would be such a sneaky stealth sweet move if you could convince him to come over on the MLE.

3 years at what would be $12M, $13M, $14M?

Reasonable?

We only have the taxpayer MLE if I understand the new rules correctly. But, full disclosure, I am not sure I understand the rules correctly.

gradyandrew wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

Doesn't Brunson have a lot of similarities to Kyle Lowry? Brunson is 26 and Kyle is 37, so I don't really see the immediate rush.

Did you just compare JB to Lowery with a str8 face?

We should learn from the Ewing era and not repeat it.

Give JB a team he can win a chip with while in his prime vs waiting until he’s Kyle lowery age since they are similar (lol). I couldn’t even type that with a str8 face. We just gonna disagree on that comparison and leave it there. Because lowery at 36 is not leading an nba team to a chip as the top player on his team. He’s not even a starter anymore. But he’s doing for Miami what drose can and should do for the Knicks.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Anyone mention Brook Lopez? FA, if I understand correctly. Still producing at a great level. Could be fantastic off the bench- and I think his brother is available too! I would sign them both.

Just turned 35 and you know what, this would be such a sneaky stealth sweet move if you could convince him to come over on the MLE.

3 years at what would be $12M, $13M, $14M?

Reasonable?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/briansampso...

He was really healthy this year and was sneaky good.

blkexec wrote:I figured out the problem. And it was right there in our face the entire time. The problem is we only see it now because of the Brunson affect. But now it’s clear what we are missing.

We are missing a #2

Randle and RJ are 3rd option.

Trade one of our 3rd options plus picks, cash, players, etc. for a true #2 option.

In the playoffs when the season was in jeopardy, Brunson stepped up and the other 2 stepped down. Thibs fell back with rotation or was it the injuries like IQ that put thibs in a bind.

100%...this is the way. My pick would be to keep RJ. Randle showed he folds in the playoffs...twice. He's not mentally suited to the spotlight. RJ stepped up big time and he's younger. JB + ?? + RJ is our top three, supported by our amazing rotation players like IQ, Grimes, Hart, etc.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Anyone mention Brook Lopez? FA, if I understand correctly. Still producing at a great level. Could be fantastic off the bench- and I think his brother is available too! I would sign them both.

Just turned 35 and you know what, this would be such a sneaky stealth sweet move if you could convince him to come over on the MLE.

3 years at what would be $12M, $13M, $14M?

Reasonable?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/briansampso...

He was really healthy this year and was sneaky good.

Yeah, but at 35 you've gotta figure this season was bit fluky. I wouldn't touch him unless he was considered a finishing piece to a true title contender. A big, lumbering big like that is not going to look to pretty in his late 30s.

1) Trade Mitch, Fournier, 1st round pick (and possibly additional picks) for Ayton. We love Mitch, but we know his limitations. His hands are rough, he doesn't finish as well as he should, has no range outside the basket and can't make free throws. Ayton is as good a rebounder, has more scoring talent (can make FTs and hit an occasional jumper) and has shown signs defensively. However he's a softy, inconsistent, a coach killer etc. However for the price he'd probably the be the easiest upgrade in the middle we could find.

2) To really go all in, follow up with Barrett, Rose (team opts him in to salary match) and Rokas for DeRozan. This is truly a win now move. DeRozan is not a shooter, but he plays the the Barrett role with more efficiency/consistency and is a proven clutch performer. Bulls get the younger player, that helps them re-set without downgrading that much talent wise. They get DRose's curtain call and a prospect in Rokas.

Knicks field a lineup of DeRozan-Randle-Ayton-Brunson-Grimes. Hart, Quickley, Hartenstein, Toppin, McBride on the bench. Its a pretty strong team with DeRozan adding some playoff/veteran moxie and Ayton is no stranger to the playoffs himself.

BUT...if you really want my opinion, I prefer to stay the course- just think the above is something that is do-able and puts you in a close place.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Anyone mention Brook Lopez? FA, if I understand correctly. Still producing at a great level. Could be fantastic off the bench- and I think his brother is available too! I would sign them both.

Just turned 35 and you know what, this would be such a sneaky stealth sweet move if you could convince him to come over on the MLE.

3 years at what would be $12M, $13M, $14M?

Reasonable?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/briansampso...

He was really healthy this year and was sneaky good.

Yeah, but at 35 you've gotta figure this season was bit fluky. I wouldn't touch him unless he was considered a finishing piece to a true title contender. A big, lumbering big like that is not going to look to pretty in his late 30s.

Brook became an elite defender where early his career he was really known as more of a soft scorer. Now he's an elite rim protector, can hit 3s and still score in the post. He is a highly effective player, but centers his size at this age are always an injury away from falling off the cliff.

VDesai wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Anyone mention Brook Lopez? FA, if I understand correctly. Still producing at a great level. Could be fantastic off the bench- and I think his brother is available too! I would sign them both.

Just turned 35 and you know what, this would be such a sneaky stealth sweet move if you could convince him to come over on the MLE.

3 years at what would be $12M, $13M, $14M?

Reasonable?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/briansampso...

He was really healthy this year and was sneaky good.

Yeah, but at 35 you've gotta figure this season was bit fluky. I wouldn't touch him unless he was considered a finishing piece to a true title contender. A big, lumbering big like that is not going to look to pretty in his late 30s.

Brook became an elite defender where early his career he was really known as more of a soft scorer. Now he's an elite rim protector, can hit 3s and still score in the post. He is a highly effective player, but centers his size at this age are always an injury away from falling off the cliff.

We don't need him to do much. Give me 50 games during the regular season and 28 during the play offs.

I need 20 minutes a game, I need you to occupy space on the defense and open the floor up when other teams go zone against us.

Put Brook on this team and we're still playing.

Panos wrote:Is there any chance in the universe that EF wants out badly enough to waive his option?

It's not EF option. Team Option next year.

foosballnick wrote:

Panos wrote:Is there any chance in the universe that EF wants out badly enough to waive his option?

It's not EF option. Team Option next year.

Yes he is basically an expiring contract for someone, but he obviously could make a contribution on the right team - especially one out west like Phoenix who gave up a lot of shooting in the Durant trade

blkexec wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

Doesn't Brunson have a lot of similarities to Kyle Lowry? Brunson is 26 and Kyle is 37, so I don't really see the immediate rush.

Did you just compare JB to Lowery with a str8 face?

We should learn from the Ewing era and not repeat it.

Give JB a team he can win a chip with while in his prime vs waiting until he’s Kyle lowery age since they are similar (lol). I couldn’t even type that with a str8 face. We just gonna disagree on that comparison and leave it there. Because lowery at 36 is not leading an nba team to a chip as the top player on his team. He’s not even a starter anymore. But he’s doing for Miami what drose can and should do for the Knicks.

My interpretation of the post was that regarding the need to make a move immediately we still have some time with Brunson. Note that Lowery appears to be much more effective on D than DRose which is why he maintains value even as a reserve at least IMO.

VDesai wrote:Just tossing around scenarios if we really wanted to go "all in" for title contention-

1) Trade Mitch, Fournier, 1st round pick (and possibly additional picks) for Ayton. We love Mitch, but we know his limitations. His hands are rough, he doesn't finish as well as he should, has no range outside the basket and can't make free throws. Ayton is as good a rebounder, has more scoring talent (can make FTs and hit an occasional jumper) and has shown signs defensively. However he's a softy, inconsistent, a coach killer etc. However for the price he'd probably the be the easiest upgrade in the middle we could find.

2) To really go all in, follow up with Barrett, Rose (team opts him in to salary match) and Rokas for DeRozan. This is truly a win now move. DeRozan is not a shooter, but he plays the the Barrett role with more efficiency/consistency and is a proven clutch performer. Bulls get the younger player, that helps them re-set without downgrading that much talent wise. They get DRose's curtain call and a prospect in Rokas.

Knicks field a lineup of DeRozan-Randle-Ayton-Brunson-Grimes. Hart, Quickley, Hartenstein, Toppin, McBride on the bench. Its a pretty strong team with DeRozan adding some playoff/veteran moxie and Ayton is no stranger to the playoffs himself.

BUT...if you really want my opinion, I prefer to stay the course- just think the above is something that is do-able and puts you in a close place.

Don't mind thinking about bringing DeRozan here. Not a fan of Ayton though. Would rather go for a lower cost guy like Reid or even Brook who can also stretch the floor as a change or pace from Mitch/Hart.

foosballnick wrote:

blkexec wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

Doesn't Brunson have a lot of similarities to Kyle Lowry? Brunson is 26 and Kyle is 37, so I don't really see the immediate rush.

Did you just compare JB to Lowery with a str8 face?

We should learn from the Ewing era and not repeat it.

Give JB a team he can win a chip with while in his prime vs waiting until he’s Kyle lowery age since they are similar (lol). I couldn’t even type that with a str8 face. We just gonna disagree on that comparison and leave it there. Because lowery at 36 is not leading an nba team to a chip as the top player on his team. He’s not even a starter anymore. But he’s doing for Miami what drose can and should do for the Knicks.

My interpretation of the post was that regarding the need to make a move immediately we still have some time with Brunson. Note that Lowery appears to be much more effective on D than DRose which is why he maintains value even as a reserve at least IMO.

By more time do you mean as an NBA player in general? It's not realistic to expect Brunson to keep up his current production into his 30s. We need to strike while the iron is hot.