Knicks · Joel Embiid watch (page 1)

Harden looks like he will go back to Houston. Philly looks like they are at the stage were they will want to make major changes. Don't really have the assets to continue to contend especially if Harden bolts. Knicks have the draft capital, ready made players and young players to make a serious offer.

Off top of my head. Randle, RJ, Grimes, Mitch, Fournier, multiple 1st for Embiid and Harris.

My thoughts exactly. The lack of emotion from Embiid after that loss was also telling. Compare that to how devastated he was when they lost to the Raptors in 2018 and I think it becomes clear that he's over his situation in Philly.

I like Tobias Harris but I'd really look into what it'd take to re-direct him to a 3rd team. He and a pick/cash for Gordon Hayward AND a sign-and-traded Miles Bridges has a lot of appeal for me. It saves the Hornets money, gives them an out of the Bridges' situation while recouping a capable player, but gives us a guy with legitimate star power to stymie the loss of depth that an Embiid trade would cause.

For the record, I don't think a Darryl Morey run operation would put much emphasis on picks. He's always been a win-now guy, so the key to finding a deal is to package those picks for actual talent. I think a Karl Anthony Towns would serve that end and should have an obvious appeal due to his floor-spacing and passing abilities. Randle and some picks for Towns, Towns and our youth for Embiid and Harris should be the framework we seek.

NardDogNation wrote:For the record, I don't think a Darryl Morey run operation would put much emphasis on picks. He's always been a win-now guy, so the key to finding a deal is to package those picks for actual talent. I think a Karl Anthony Towns would serve that end and should have an obvious appeal due to his floor-spacing and passing abilities. Randle and some picks for Towns, Towns and our youth for Embiid and Harris should be the framework we seek.

Oh, Morey would take picks and everything else he can get his hands on. We're talking about the "MVP."But would Embiid make sense if you're gutting the entire team? My concern with Towns is that he's a negative defensively. To weak and spatially unaware to play 5 and to slow to plug into the 4. My interest would come down to knowing what other moves would the team make to smooth out the roster.

Look what the Wolves gave up for Gobert. Think Emblid will be less? Also same division and all that. Pipe dream.

I am really against these type of ideas. Continue to build realistically and soberly. Not what some want I know.

I’m at the point where I don’t mind giving up the picks and youth for an elite player like Embiid because we have the superstar in Brunson and the guys we are most excited about like Quickley and Grimes really fell apart in the postseason. We didn’t have anyone really solidify their value despite the rather successful post season. We saw some really good and really bad game from Barrett. We saw playoff Randle. We saw IQ and grimes really just shrink. It was Brunson and all Brunson. Obviously Hart stepped up at times but he’s an elite role player as opposed to a breakout young guy. I’m happy staying the course but we have a star in Brunson now so that window to build around him is here now.

Knixkik wrote:I’m at the point where I don’t mind giving up the picks and youth for an elite player like Embiid because we have the superstar in Brunson and the guys we are most excited about like Quickley and Grimes really fell apart in the postseason. We didn’t have anyone really solidify their value despite the rather successful post season. We saw some really good and really bad game from Barrett. We saw playoff Randle. We saw IQ and grimes really just shrink. It was Brunson and all Brunson. Obviously Hart stepped up at times but he’s an elite role player as opposed to a breakout young guy. I’m happy staying the course but we have a star in Brunson now so that window to build around him is here now.

For his entire tenure with the Rockets, can you recall a single first round pick Morey has made outside of Aaron Brooks, Terrance Jones, Royce White and Jeremy Lamb? And of those guys, how many were staples of the Rockets long-term? The past is a good predictor of the future and the past is telling us that Morey does not value the abstract and puts extra emphasis on the tangible.

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:For the record, I don't think a Darryl Morey run operation would put much emphasis on picks. He's always been a win-now guy, so the key to finding a deal is to package those picks for actual talent. I think a Karl Anthony Towns would serve that end and should have an obvious appeal due to his floor-spacing and passing abilities. Randle and some picks for Towns, Towns and our youth for Embiid and Harris should be the framework we seek.

Oh, Morey would take picks and everything else he can get his hands on. We're talking about the "MVP."But would Embiid make sense if you're gutting the entire team? My concern with Towns is that he's a negative defensively. To weak and spatially unaware to play 5 and to slow to plug into the 4. My interest would come down to knowing what other moves would the team make to smooth out the roster.

I think picks will be a part of the deal but they can't be the essence of the deal. I don't think Morey's history suggests that he values them as others do. I posed this question in another thread but outside of Aaron Brooks, Terrence Jones, Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and the Lithuanian dude they drafted in 2011, how many first round picks of their's can you even recall? And of the aforementioned, how many of them were core to the team long-term?

As for KAT, I detest his game. I don't think it is conducive to playoff success but he still is useful, particularly during the regular season. He'd allow them to remain competitive and allow the remaining pieces on their team to make sense. They'd absolutely be a worse team but I think there are parallels/precedent in the DeMarr Derozan and Jakob Poetl for Kawhi Leonard trade in that sense.

NardDogNation wrote:My thoughts exactly. The lack of emotion from Embiid after that loss was also telling. Compare that to how devastated he was when they lost to the Raptors in 2018 and I think it becomes clear that he's over his situation in Philly.

I like Tobias Harris but I'd really look into what it'd take to re-direct him to a 3rd team. He and a pick/cash for Gordon Hayward AND a sign-and-traded Miles Bridges has a lot of appeal for me. It saves the Hornets money, gives them an out of the Bridges' situation while recouping a capable player, but gives us a guy with legitimate star power to stymie the loss of depth that an Embiid trade would cause.

Miles Bridges is interesting. He could probably be had at way cheaper price than his production and fits some needs for this team. The dilemma is more morally. He beat up a woman pretty bad.

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:For the record, I don't think a Darryl Morey run operation would put much emphasis on picks. He's always been a win-now guy, so the key to finding a deal is to package those picks for actual talent. I think a Karl Anthony Towns would serve that end and should have an obvious appeal due to his floor-spacing and passing abilities. Randle and some picks for Towns, Towns and our youth for Embiid and Harris should be the framework we seek.

Oh, Morey would take picks and everything else he can get his hands on. We're talking about the "MVP."But would Embiid make sense if you're gutting the entire team? My concern with Towns is that he's a negative defensively. To weak and spatially unaware to play 5 and to slow to plug into the 4. My interest would come down to knowing what other moves would the team make to smooth out the roster.

I think picks will be a part of the deal but they can't be the essence of the deal. I don't think Morey's history suggests that he values them as others do. I posed this question in another thread but outside of Aaron Brooks, Terrence Jones, Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and the Lithuanian dude they drafted in 2011, how many first round picks of their's can you even recall? And of the aforementioned, how many of them were core to the team long-term?

As for KAT, I detest his game. I don't think it is conducive to playoff success but he still is useful, particularly during the regular season. He'd allow them to remain competitive and allow the remaining pieces on their team to make sense. They'd absolutely be a worse team but I think there are parallels/precedent in the DeMarr Derozan and Jakob Poetl for Kawhi Leonard trade in that sense.

Yeah, Morey would see the first rounders as chips to flip for another star. He would want picks, along with everything else. IQ, Grimes, Obi, RJ.... Maybe Randle. His asking price would dwarf Ainge's asking price for Mitchell and I'm not sure I have the stomach for that.

KnickDanger wrote:Look what the Wolves gave up for Gobert. Think Emblid will be less? Also same division and all that. Pipe dream.

I am really against these type of ideas. Continue to build realistically and soberly. Not what some want I know.

-Wolves only had Beasley as a decently productive player in the deal which is why they had to trade so many draft picks. Randle and RJ reduce the amount of draft picks needed to be sent back.

-I don't see the great options for Philly. If Harden bolts how do they improve? Why would Embiid want to stay? Knicks have the collection proven talent, prospects and draft picks that not many other teams have. Where they(PHILLY) can have a playoff team to buy time with added draft capital flexibility to make future moves.

- This is part of building. The nice thing about this team is the amount of depth. Even if we did the proposed deal in the op. The team would still feature Embiid, Obi, Harris, Hart, Brunson, IQ, Hartenstien, Mcbride, Simms (Rokas?). And should still have some decent draft capital left over.

Not that this is happening, but other than Brunson, you give up whatever you have to for Embiid.

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:For the record, I don't think a Darryl Morey run operation would put much emphasis on picks. He's always been a win-now guy, so the key to finding a deal is to package those picks for actual talent. I think a Karl Anthony Towns would serve that end and should have an obvious appeal due to his floor-spacing and passing abilities. Randle and some picks for Towns, Towns and our youth for Embiid and Harris should be the framework we seek.

Oh, Morey would take picks and everything else he can get his hands on. We're talking about the "MVP."But would Embiid make sense if you're gutting the entire team? My concern with Towns is that he's a negative defensively. To weak and spatially unaware to play 5 and to slow to plug into the 4. My interest would come down to knowing what other moves would the team make to smooth out the roster.

I think picks will be a part of the deal but they can't be the essence of the deal. I don't think Morey's history suggests that he values them as others do. I posed this question in another thread but outside of Aaron Brooks, Terrence Jones, Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and the Lithuanian dude they drafted in 2011, how many first round picks of their's can you even recall? And of the aforementioned, how many of them were core to the team long-term?

As for KAT, I detest his game. I don't think it is conducive to playoff success but he still is useful, particularly during the regular season. He'd allow them to remain competitive and allow the remaining pieces on their team to make sense. They'd absolutely be a worse team but I think there are parallels/precedent in the DeMarr Derozan and Jakob Poetl for Kawhi Leonard trade in that sense.

Yeah, Morey would see the first rounders as chips to flip for another star. He would want picks, along with everything else. IQ, Grimes, Obi, RJ.... Maybe Randle. His asking price would dwarf Ainge's asking price for Mitchell and I'm not sure I have the stomach for that.

Cavaliers receive:

Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:

Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick

This was the deal for Spida. Randle and RJ act as Sexton and Lauri, can argue Knicks are offering the better combo here due to Sexton falling off from inj. Mitch Robinson and Grimes would take the place of draft picks who would both net pretty decent ones in the open market. Don't see the Knicks needing to have to give up 3 first and 2 swaps as well.

If the price is to rich then Rose can do like he did for Spida...

newyorknewyork wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Look what the Wolves gave up for Gobert. Think Emblid will be less? Also same division and all that. Pipe dream.

I am really against these type of ideas. Continue to build realistically and soberly. Not what some want I know.

-Wolves only had Beasley as a decently productive player in the deal which is why they had to trade so many draft picks. Randle and RJ reduce the amount of draft picks needed to be sent back.

-I don't see the great options for Philly. If Harden bolts how do they improve? Why would Embiid want to stay? Knicks have the collection proven talent, prospects and draft picks that not many other teams have. Where they can have a playoff team to buy time with added draft capital flexibility to make future moves.

- This is part of building. The nice thing about this team is the amount of depth. Even if we did the proposed deal in the op. The team would still feature Embiid, Obi, Harris, Hart, Brunson, IQ, Hartenstien, Mcbride, Simms (Rokas?). And should still have some decent draft capital left over.

Jazz also got Vanderbilt who a lot of posters here were wanting. And Walker Kessler, an NBA player it would seem. But then there's those 4 firsts, 3 unprotected, 1 top 5 protected, plus a swap.

But my point is really if that is what it cost for Gobert, then what is going to cost for Emblid? Much more I think.

Knixkik wrote:I’m at the point where I don’t mind giving up the picks and youth for an elite player like Embiid because we have the superstar in Brunson and the guys we are most excited about like Quickley and Grimes really fell apart in the postseason. We didn’t have anyone really solidify their value despite the rather successful post season. We saw some really good and really bad game from Barrett. We saw playoff Randle. We saw IQ and grimes really just shrink. It was Brunson and all Brunson. Obviously Hart stepped up at times but he’s an elite role player as opposed to a breakout young guy. I’m happy staying the course but we have a star in Brunson now so that window to build around him is here now.

Papabear Says

Why would you think that after we give up everything we will have a better team than what Philly have now. And if Burnson get hurt we are done. Embiid won the MVP but nothing else. It seems he folds during playoff times also.

Papabear wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I’m at the point where I don’t mind giving up the picks and youth for an elite player like Embiid because we have the superstar in Brunson and the guys we are most excited about like Quickley and Grimes really fell apart in the postseason. We didn’t have anyone really solidify their value despite the rather successful post season. We saw some really good and really bad game from Barrett. We saw playoff Randle. We saw IQ and grimes really just shrink. It was Brunson and all Brunson. Obviously Hart stepped up at times but he’s an elite role player as opposed to a breakout young guy. I’m happy staying the course but we have a star in Brunson now so that window to build around him is here now.

Papabear Says

Why would you think that after we give up everything we will have a better team than what Philly have now. And if Burnson get hurt we are done. Embiid won the MVP but nothing else. It seems he folds during playoff times also.

That's a big turnoff. The question is how are his defensive stats

So which Knicks player are they building around that isn’t named Jalen Brunson?

Morey don’t own the Sixers. Josh Harris does. he tells Morey what to do.
Give up all that whats Left to win with?
JB is not as good as harden, If IQ sticks, he not as good As Maxy. so the core is Embiid, JB and Harris?
I like EMbiid. He breaks down in the playoffs. That won’t get easier. He is the MVP, but he like an old 29 year old.
The back? Knees? Games misses…………
I get the appeal, but Im not paying up that big for a starphuch.

Hmmm.......

i would love embiid but the sixers wont trade him to us because of the same division. they will ask for EVERYTHING! if he is available, i would keep a close eye on okc. this is the type of trade that they will use their treasure chest full of assets on.

KnickDanger wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Look what the Wolves gave up for Gobert. Think Emblid will be less? Also same division and all that. Pipe dream.

I am really against these type of ideas. Continue to build realistically and soberly. Not what some want I know.

-Wolves only had Beasley as a decently productive player in the deal which is why they had to trade so many draft picks. Randle and RJ reduce the amount of draft picks needed to be sent back.

-I don't see the great options for Philly. If Harden bolts how do they improve? Why would Embiid want to stay? Knicks have the collection proven talent, prospects and draft picks that not many other teams have. Where they can have a playoff team to buy time with added draft capital flexibility to make future moves.

- This is part of building. The nice thing about this team is the amount of depth. Even if we did the proposed deal in the op. The team would still feature Embiid, Obi, Harris, Hart, Brunson, IQ, Hartenstien, Mcbride, Simms (Rokas?). And should still have some decent draft capital left over.

Jazz also got Vanderbilt who a lot of posters here were wanting. And Walker Kessler, an NBA player it would seem. But then there's those 4 firsts, 3 unprotected, 1 top 5 protected, plus a swap.

But my point is really if that is what it cost for Gobert, then what is going to cost for Emblid? Much more I think.

Utah cared mostly about draft capital because they wanted a full tear down rebuild. Which is why they also ended up trading Beasley and Vanderbuilt for more draft capital. Kessler was a draft pick/prospect that panned out not a proven commodity. I don't see Philly wanting a full tear down rebuild. What the Knicks can offer are players that can help them make playoffs, along with some draft capital to improve on that.

Philly as it stands right now if they lose Harden. They only have 1 first round draft pick over these next 3 drafts. Don't have a 1st in this upcoming draft. They can't trade their 2024 or 2026 draft pick due to the rule that you can't trade picks in consecutive yrs. They will have some cap space. But the FA market isn't great. Not enough to make a difference.

They could very well be a play in exit team next yr.