Knicks · Leave the Knicks intact.. (page 4)
KnickDanger wrote:I would say stay the course over staying “intact.” Just glad the fire/dump/tear it down crowd is in the minority now.
The Super Max has made it much more difficult to create Super Teams. The need to tear everything down to have any shot at winning is over. The league is wide open now. Much more enjoyable.
EwingsGlass wrote:joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.
Angry me thinks that the timing of the fouls was a large component of the outcomes of those games. That turnover differential is obviously the largest component, and you wouldn't think it just looking at the number of fouls for each team, but it seemed like the fouls called on the Knicks resulted in turnovers and shots by their good free throw shooters and the fouls on the Heat were inconsequential (for the most part) or hacks on our bad shooters. Good teams don't give the refs the opportunity to change the outcome, but it seemed like there would be a foul called when the Knicks started to a make a run, stunting their momentum. I can't say that Miami didn't earn that series, we sure as hell didn't shoot well enough to win, but I thought the reffing was less even handed than it appears on paper.
Them timing of fouls could definately play a part, but they lost the series 4-2. The Knicks could have played much better. They had chances.
Philc1 wrote:So now that the Celtics series is 3-2 maybe the plan shouldn’t be extend everyone?
Start by extending your vocabulary?
Philc1 wrote:So now that the Celtics series is 3-2 maybe the plan shouldn’t be extend everyone?
Somewhere between gut the team, and extend everyone.
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
LOL
Good example of denying reality
Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?
Didn’t he injure his shoulder during the Cavs series?…Regardless, you can’t deny his role, and playing time, decreased once Hart came on board.
You may be right on Sims….but we didn’t see much of him before his surgery anyway.
has Randle gotten better under Thibs or hasnt he? Are we watching?
I wouldn’t say he has gotten better…He is getting more shot attempts and time on the court than his previous two stops. He was a better defender and inside player with the Lakers. 3pt shooting still sucks
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
Increased Playing is obvious important for live game experience but that’s only part of it. That fact that this team relies so much on ISO from Brunson and Randle is actual stunting Grimes and IQ growth (It’s not a coincidence that IQ had his best games with Brunson out).
And this isn’t a knock on Brunson/Randle but more on Thibs not running or calling plays.
Swishfm3 wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
LOL
Good example of denying reality
Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?Didn’t he injure his shoulder during the Cavs series?…Regardless, you can’t deny his role, and playing time, decreased once Hart came on board.
You may be right on Sims….but we didn’t see much of him before his surgery anyway.has Randle gotten better under Thibs or hasnt he? Are we watching?I wouldn’t say he has gotten better…He is getting more shot attempts and time on the court than his previous two stops. He was a better defender and inside player with the Lakers. 3pt shooting still sucks
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.Increased Playing is obvious important for live game experience but that’s only part of it. That fact that this team relies so much on ISO from Brunson and Randle is actual stunting Grimes and IQ growth (It’s not a coincidence that IQ had his best games with Brunson out).
And this isn’t a knock on Brunson/Randle but more on Thibs not running or calling plays.
Brunsons offense is efficent as hell. He can go ISO all game for all I care.
joec32033 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.
Angry me thinks that the timing of the fouls was a large component of the outcomes of those games. That turnover differential is obviously the largest component, and you wouldn't think it just looking at the number of fouls for each team, but it seemed like the fouls called on the Knicks resulted in turnovers and shots by their good free throw shooters and the fouls on the Heat were inconsequential (for the most part) or hacks on our bad shooters. Good teams don't give the refs the opportunity to change the outcome, but it seemed like there would be a foul called when the Knicks started to a make a run, stunting their momentum. I can't say that Miami didn't earn that series, we sure as hell didn't shoot well enough to win, but I thought the reffing was less even handed than it appears on paper.
Them timing of fouls could definately play a part, but they lost the series 4-2. The Knicks could have played much better. They had chances.
I agree, but it’s 3-3 and coming back home if that last game is called a bit better. 2 calls in the last 2 minutes went incorrectly against the Knicks in the summary review write up. I don’t want to be an excuse guy. I clearly say that a better team wouldn’t have given the refs a chance to affect the outcome. But 4-2 isn’t so far from 3-3 with home court advantage for the final game.
GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:So now that the Celtics series is 3-2 maybe the plan shouldn’t be extend everyone?Somewhere between gut the team, and extend everyone.
You just don’t appreciate all the winning
EwingsGlass wrote:joec32033 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.
Angry me thinks that the timing of the fouls was a large component of the outcomes of those games. That turnover differential is obviously the largest component, and you wouldn't think it just looking at the number of fouls for each team, but it seemed like the fouls called on the Knicks resulted in turnovers and shots by their good free throw shooters and the fouls on the Heat were inconsequential (for the most part) or hacks on our bad shooters. Good teams don't give the refs the opportunity to change the outcome, but it seemed like there would be a foul called when the Knicks started to a make a run, stunting their momentum. I can't say that Miami didn't earn that series, we sure as hell didn't shoot well enough to win, but I thought the reffing was less even handed than it appears on paper.
Them timing of fouls could definately play a part, but they lost the series 4-2. The Knicks could have played much better. They had chances.
I agree, but it’s 3-3 and coming back home if that last game is called a bit better. 2 calls in the last 2 minutes went incorrectly against the Knicks in the summary review write up. I don’t want to be an excuse guy. I clearly say that a better team wouldn’t have given the refs a chance to affect the outcome. But 4-2 isn’t so far from 3-3 with home court advantage for the final game.
Not disagreeing. But even taking all that into consideration, the Knicks had chances to win. They had chances. They didn't capitalize on them. It sucks to say it, but fingerpointing at the refs is too easy. Even if it was swayed as much as you are saying, the Knicks still had chances to win and didn't close out.
joec32033 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:joec32033 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.
Angry me thinks that the timing of the fouls was a large component of the outcomes of those games. That turnover differential is obviously the largest component, and you wouldn't think it just looking at the number of fouls for each team, but it seemed like the fouls called on the Knicks resulted in turnovers and shots by their good free throw shooters and the fouls on the Heat were inconsequential (for the most part) or hacks on our bad shooters. Good teams don't give the refs the opportunity to change the outcome, but it seemed like there would be a foul called when the Knicks started to a make a run, stunting their momentum. I can't say that Miami didn't earn that series, we sure as hell didn't shoot well enough to win, but I thought the reffing was less even handed than it appears on paper.
Them timing of fouls could definately play a part, but they lost the series 4-2. The Knicks could have played much better. They had chances.
I agree, but it’s 3-3 and coming back home if that last game is called a bit better. 2 calls in the last 2 minutes went incorrectly against the Knicks in the summary review write up. I don’t want to be an excuse guy. I clearly say that a better team wouldn’t have given the refs a chance to affect the outcome. But 4-2 isn’t so far from 3-3 with home court advantage for the final game.
Not disagreeing. But even taking all that into consideration, the Knicks had chances to win. They had chances. They didn't capitalize on them. It sucks to say it, but fingerpointing at the refs is too easy. Even if it was swayed as much as you are saying, the Knicks still had chances to win and didn't close out.
The thing that stood out to me was whether you talk about the crowd, the coach, or the team they looked scared in Game 1. I know the Knicks won Game 2 but it seems like there were a bunch of iffy calls that went New York's way to make it happen. By game 4 (a loss) it looked like the Knicks had figured out a way to win. I thought Randle's comment was spot on and probably directed at himself more than anyone else. Knicks have a pretty easy path to keeping all these guys together next season. There should be a lot of confidence that these guys will come back hungry for more. Hopefully we can get video of.Randle Brunson and Hart sharing drinks with an umbrella in them somewhere.
Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:So now that the Celtics series is 3-2 maybe the plan shouldn’t be extend everyone?Somewhere between gut the team, and extend everyone.
You just don’t appreciate all the winning
I appreciate that we got to the second round. That some of the younger players need more seasoning. That we need one more go to player. Even if the young core delivers. Look at the competition.
Philc1 wrote:So now that the Celtics series is 3-2 maybe the plan shouldnt be extend everyone?
How about now?
Panos wrote:Philc1 wrote:So now that the Celtics series is 3-2 maybe the plan shouldnt be extend everyone?How about now?
So extend everyone and trade RJ and all first round picks next few years for OG and maybe we win 2 games again against the heat next season. Now that’s initiative
Philc1 wrote:Panos wrote:Philc1 wrote:So now that the Celtics series is 3-2 maybe the plan shouldnt be extend everyone?How about now?
So extend everyone and trade RJ and all first round picks next few years for OG and maybe we win 2 games again against the heat next season. Now that’s initiative
How do you conclude we would only win two more games ? Did you see Miami going to the Finals ?
Unless Julius Randle is apart of a larger package to land a guy who can shot create at an all NBA level, it’s not out of the ordinary to sign/trade for a guy to fit with him and Brunson.Just four years ago, he was playing 2nd fiddle to Marcus Morris. Two years ago, he was the best player we seen on the Knicks since Carmelo Anthony. I think he can fit in well being the 3rd option and relying less on him to create shots.
Julius Randle is NOT stopping the Knicks from becoming a championship team.
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martin wrote:OK, not a bad takeUnless Julius Randle is apart of a larger package to land a guy who can shot create at an all NBA level, it’s not out of the ordinary to sign/trade for a guy to fit with him and Brunson.Just four years ago, he was playing 2nd fiddle to Marcus Morris. Two years ago, he was the best player we seen on the Knicks since Carmelo Anthony. I think he can fit in well being the 3rd option and relying less on him to create shots.
Julius Randle is NOT stopping the Knicks from becoming a championship team.
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The guy isn't wrong if Julius will accept being a third option and focusing a little more on rebounding and defense, I think it would be ideal for him and the team. I think he has the skillset for it. Who the 2 guys above him leaves alot of room for debate. Brunson as a 1 and RJ as a 2 (with improvements made over the summer hopefully) didn't look so bad in the playoffs. IDK if the ideal #1 or #2 is going to be out there this summer.
I wouldn’t blow it all up - that would be taking a step back. However without a 1st round draft pick it makes improving tough. I just want to see smart moves made if any.
martin wrote:OK, not a bad takeUnless Julius Randle is apart of a larger package to land a guy who can shot create at an all NBA level, it’s not out of the ordinary to sign/trade for a guy to fit with him and Brunson.Just four years ago, he was playing 2nd fiddle to Marcus Morris. Two years ago, he was the best player we seen on the Knicks since Carmelo Anthony. I think he can fit in well being the 3rd option and relying less on him to create shots.
Julius Randle is NOT stopping the Knicks from becoming a championship team.
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This is where I stand on this topic. I agree with this.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:OK, not a bad takeUnless Julius Randle is apart of a larger package to land a guy who can shot create at an all NBA level, it’s not out of the ordinary to sign/trade for a guy to fit with him and Brunson.Just four years ago, he was playing 2nd fiddle to Marcus Morris. Two years ago, he was the best player we seen on the Knicks since Carmelo Anthony. I think he can fit in well being the 3rd option and relying less on him to create shots.
Julius Randle is NOT stopping the Knicks from becoming a championship team.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1663330060034514945?s=20
Click here to view the TweetThis is where I stand on this topic. I agree with this.
Same - it’s a good take. Keeps the core intact and improves it.