His skill set would ideal at the 3 for us.. reuniting RJ with Zion might be intriguing to Pelicans.
RJ, Obi & a pick may get a deal done.
been harping on this one for awhile. Ingram is a stud, he's played w/ Randle and I think would slide right into that 2nd scoring slot. He also misses alot of game and is due for a big payday soon so there's that as well
I think RJ will become as good as Ingram in 1-2 years.
So, I would be down with a straight up youth for experience trade at most. No picks or any other goodies for NOP.
as long as we're throwing hypothetical trades out there, assuming the Celtics blow the series, I wouldn't trade for Ingram until we kicked the tires on Tatum or Brown. I think the latter would be attainable and we haven't had a player like that since Spree
Hypothetical trades yeah...Ingram *might* be available because of his injury history. Healthy I could be down with that. Tatum and Brown - even if the Knicks could put together a package that would seal the deal, even with the huge contract coming on board, I can't imagine the Celtics sending their superstar here.
Ingram is in my list, but below both Mikal Bridges, OG Anunoby and Jaylen Brown. My ideal lineup next to Brunson has two of these players. I can be patient though. Let contracts run. They are all pretty young.
ESOMKnicks wrote:I think RJ will become as good as Ingram in 1-2 years.So, I would be down with a straight up youth for experience trade at most. No picks or any other goodies for NOP.
I doubt that.
Ingram is a stud…his limitation is that he has been injury prone the last couple of years.
Swishfm3 wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:I think RJ will become as good as Ingram in 1-2 years.So, I would be down with a straight up youth for experience trade at most. No picks or any other goodies for NOP.
I doubt that.
Ingram is a stud…his limitation is that he has been injury prone the last couple of years.
RJ has never shown the kind of shooting or offensive game Ingram has. They both came in very young. Ingram developed into an elite scorer in 4 years. In 4 years (coming in at the same age) RJ has been the same guy. A big guard who gets to the rim. The rest is wildly inconsistent. Maybe RJ gets there. He's a good kid but he hasnt shown that skill wise.
There's ZERO ZILCH NADA chance Tatum, Jalen Brown or Mikal Bridges are traded to the Knicks. Hey with Harden leaving Phili maybe Phili should trade for Brunson? That makes a lot of sense... and see how ridic it sounds. OG is good and like the 4th best player on a .500 team. You swap him for RJ you are relying even MORE on Randle. Part of the point of this upgrade is to rely less on Randle. Ingram accomplishes that (and we stay young)
fishmike wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:I think RJ will become as good as Ingram in 1-2 years.So, I would be down with a straight up youth for experience trade at most. No picks or any other goodies for NOP.
I doubt that.
Ingram is a stud…his limitation is that he has been injury prone the last couple of years.
RJ has never shown the kind of shooting or offensive game Ingram has. They both came in very young. Ingram developed into an elite scorer in 4 years. In 4 years (coming in at the same age) RJ has been the same guy. A big guard who gets to the rim. The rest is wildly inconsistent. Maybe RJ gets there. He's a good kid but he hasnt shown that skill wise.There's ZERO ZILCH NADA chance Tatum, Jalen Brown or Mikal Bridges are traded to the Knicks. Hey with Harden leaving Phili maybe Phili should trade for Brunson? That makes a lot of sense... and see how ridic it sounds. OG is good and like the 4th best player on a .500 team. You swap him for RJ you are relying even MORE on Randle. Part of the point of this upgrade is to rely less on Randle. Ingram accomplishes that (and we stay young)
I don't think the bolded part matches my expectations on an OG trade. I don't think we can rely more on Randle. I think regardless he is getting his usage. I think Barrett's usage is actually too high for what he delivers. I think you substitute and OG for Barrett and you drop usage from the SF from 26% to 20% or so while increasing both defensive prowess and 3 point shooting. You then have more shots for Grimes (14% usage). Basically, you bring both wings to 20% usage at higher efficiency. AND because you increase the efficiency of good 3 point shooters, that has the effect of spreading the floor as defenses have to guard these guys a bit closer.
Randle needs to continue to grow as a player, but I think he and RJ don't really co-exist well. I think an OG is a better pairing for what Brunson and Randle bring to the table. Its not about relying more on Randle. Its making the floor bigger for him.
Good disussion and good points made.
But why is Nola trading Ingram? His unique skill level helps many teams. He and Zion have alum roots and been together 4 years. Zion and RJ one. How does RJ make Nola better?
How much more time do we need for RJ be better? Outside of inconsistency, is he really that bad?? As bad as he was, we still won 47 games and made it one round in.
Does Zion look like he needs to be happy? Not like he not eating.
Nola is scary good on paper. With a plethora of picks, they might be looking at getting better. RJ that?
Ingram is compelling as is OG to a lessor extent.
Knick will keep us guessing!!!
Ingram is great but don't think another "hold the ball wing" playing next to Randle is a great fit. If we moved Randle as well then it could be a really good move as like Ingram's iso game much more. Brunson and Randle both dominate the ball (likely a part of the reason why RJ struggled as the 3rd wheel) and the Heat series showed us how much we need more ball movement. And I completely agree Ingram is definitely a talent upgrade from RJ.
Nalod wrote:Good disussion and good points made.
But why is Nola trading Ingram? His unique skill level helps many teams. He and Zion have alum roots and been together 4 years. Zion and RJ one. How does RJ make Nola better?
How much more time do we need for RJ be better? Outside of inconsistency, is he really that bad?? As bad as he was, we still won 47 games and made it one round in.
Does Zion look like he needs to be happy? Not like he not eating.
Nola is scary good on paper. With a plethora of picks, they might be looking at getting better. RJ that?
Ingram is compelling as is OG to a lessor extent.
Knick will keep us guessing!!!
Ingram has 2 years left on his contract, but he is eligible for an extension this offseason. So there is no rush or anything but like with Giannis, there is significance to both the player and the team on how they handle the extension negotiations.
Not sure why you think NOP has a lot of picks on hand. They have their own and then mostly swaps. LAL's next year and Milwaukee's in 2027.
I don't think NOP needs to trade Ingram so much as they have to watch their salary allocations. They are going to cap out badly if they are not watching themselves.
I had anticipated that RJ would be much more serviceable as a make-shift primary ball handler by now. Tatum and Ingram (and heck, Zion) developed into better ball distributors than RJ more quickly.
Luke Walton made Ingram play PG for stretches on the Lakers and you can say that helped set the stage for his development years later. This season he averaged 5.8apg.
As to why would NO want to deal Ingram? For one, he has a max contract and if he can keep himself healthy enough to get on an all-NBA team, he can become a very costly supermax contract on a physically fragile player.
The team's big issue is the health status of Zion. Maybe it makes sense for them to move from Zion; alternatively, you can move Ingram for a package of RJ & Obi and/or assets. While RJ has been a less dynamic player compared to Ingram, he costs dramatically less. Plus with Zion's propensity for long term injuries, you ideally want a high upside backup/part time starter in that role. They were manning the position with 6'7" Herbert Jones. So the wins are: more depth, financial relief, all with upside.
The Knicks would take on the financial burden of a potential supermax deal and a less durable player for the benefit of all-around better play.
I do like Ingram but it's highly unlikely he gets traded. Between him and Zion i have a feeling if push comes to shove, Zion is more likely to be traded than Ingram. Does all Zion's downtime/rehab time taking a toll on his relationship with the Pelicans?
fishmike wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:I think RJ will become as good as Ingram in 1-2 years.So, I would be down with a straight up youth for experience trade at most. No picks or any other goodies for NOP.
I doubt that.
Ingram is a stud…his limitation is that he has been injury prone the last couple of years.
RJ has never shown the kind of shooting or offensive game Ingram has. They both came in very young. Ingram developed into an elite scorer in 4 years. In 4 years (coming in at the same age) RJ has been the same guy. A big guard who gets to the rim. The rest is wildly inconsistent. Maybe RJ gets there. He's a good kid but he hasnt shown that skill wise.There's ZERO ZILCH NADA chance Tatum, Jalen Brown or Mikal Bridges are traded to the Knicks. Hey with Harden leaving Phili maybe Phili should trade for Brunson? That makes a lot of sense... and see how ridic it sounds. OG is good and like the 4th best player on a .500 team. You swap him for RJ you are relying even MORE on Randle. Part of the point of this upgrade is to rely less on Randle. Ingram accomplishes that (and we stay young)
Ingram has been an elite scorer on a crap team. Maybe that makes him a stud, maybe it makes him another Loy Vaught, Charles Smith or Tony Campbell. His production on the Knicks may go up thanks to Brunson, or go down if he has to give up some of his shot attempts to Brunson/Randle and do more on defense.
In any case, I do not see much need to give up more for him than just a straight up RJ. His addition by itself will not vault the Knicks into a clear contender status. So, why give up too many assets for him?
The only way New Orleans trades Ingram to the Knicks is if Zion has such a hold over the franchise that he demands they trade for Barrett and there’s some behind the scenes stuff. But with the injuries I doubt he has that right now. He’s already set the franchise back as it is. They aren’t going to downgrade at the 3 ontop of it.
Knixkik wrote:The only way New Orleans trades Ingram to the Knicks is if Zion has such a hold over the franchise that he demands they trade for Barrett and there’s some behind the scenes stuff. But with the injuries I doubt he has that right now. He’s already set the franchise back as it is. They aren’t going to downgrade at the 3 ontop of it.
I agree. Will take a good offer for the Pelcans to part ways with BI. RJ alone isn't enough, just my guess. I'm sure a few future picks or some of our youths (Grimes / IQ) would need to be involved for the Pelcans to even answer the phone. Thats because I haven't heard any rumors of BI on the trading block, so the Pels holds the leverage.
From what I've seen of Leon, unless he has the leverage, hes in no rush and will simply wait until a star is available. Now if BI was a generational talent, then thats a different story. but he's another ISO scorer who can be streaky. But I believe his up and down style, length and outside shooting would compliment JB and RJ / Randle, depending on whoever is included in trade.
Again, this is all hypothetical knick fan talk. I haven't heard any rumors yet on what the Pels will do or not do.
I see no reason by NO would be looking to trade Ingram. We would have a better chance of getting Zion, who actually may be on the trading block if he gets hurt again next season. At some point, NO will have to just cut their losses with him. But I don't see them trading Ingram for anything short of more than we want to give up. But I do like Ingram and think he would be a perfect SF for us.
technomaster wrote:I had anticipated that RJ would be much more serviceable as a make-shift primary ball handler by now. Tatum and Ingram (and heck, Zion) developed into better ball distributors than RJ more quickly.Luke Walton made Ingram play PG for stretches on the Lakers and you can say that helped set the stage for his development years later. This season he averaged 5.8apg.
As to why would NO want to deal Ingram? For one, he has a max contract and if he can keep himself healthy enough to get on an all-NBA team, he can become a very costly supermax contract on a physically fragile player.
The team's big issue is the health status of Zion. Maybe it makes sense for them to move from Zion; alternatively, you can move Ingram for a package of RJ & Obi and/or assets. While RJ has been a less dynamic player compared to Ingram, he costs dramatically less. Plus with Zion's propensity for long term injuries, you ideally want a high upside backup/part time starter in that role. They were manning the position with 6'7" Herbert Jones. So the wins are: more depth, financial relief, all with upside.
The Knicks would take on the financial burden of a potential supermax deal and a less durable player for the benefit of all-around better play.
I never had as lofty expectations on RJ on par with those guys. RJ was the 3rd pick but one with a drop off. I suppose others did. Thing is he never really tore it up in college. he had moments. he has had moments as a pro too! I never saw it in him. I saw Reddish potential but he never elevated beyond the physical potential.
Ingram is a bit older as is Tatum. Tatum right from the start was special As was Zion. Ingram needed a season to get it together but he was a shooter from day one.
Perhaps thats the issue of the "Polarization": Expectations.
As for Ingram getting a super max from him if he all NBA? That a bad thing? Randle was eligible his first selection and knicks did not sniff that kind of scratch!
I might be all wrong on this but i don't think i've ever seen Ingram play with any fire. Also does anyone have any sense of whether he's clutch?
i agree with an earlier post that oddly enough Zion may be more attainable.
Chandler wrote:
I might be all wrong on this but i don't think i've ever seen Ingram play with any fire. Also does anyone have any sense of whether he's clutch?i agree with an earlier post that oddly enough Zion may be more attainable.
He is rail thin, not really durable, has a blood disorder and I doubt can guard 4 positions as advertised. He can shoot and is a very good player. We lost 4 of 5 and we all about “we need shooting”. If his shot does not fall is he complete enough to stay on the court for Thibs?
