No surprises here.
https://dailyknicks.com/2023/06/05/ranki...4 Derek Fisher
3 Fizdale
2 Larry Brown
1 Isiah
I'd put Larry 1st cause some his moves seemed to be done just to annoy management. Starting folks cause game was near their hometown. 
God, Isiah was just a dick.
1. Fizz
2. rambis
3. Don Cheney
4. Larry Brown
I get putting brown up here. You have to evaluate him based on what he did here and he was an abrasive ass the entire time. I put Cheney 3rd overall because he was clearly over his head after Jeff surprise quit. And then instead of tanking the following season he somehow has us playing semi-competitive basketball and thus we lose out on Lebron, Melo, Bosh and Wade and get set back a decade.
Isiah was a mediocre head coach who was a horrible GM. Fisher was just a mediocre head coach
BigDaddyG wrote:
Hope he does well and has a good career. I liked the guy. He sucked here.
Won't defend that.
Nobody liked Larry Brown but his HOF career speaks for itself. Such a bad hire for this team and GM.
What a shit show is tenure was. The whole locking him out thing, road side pressors, just the highest level of disfunction by a FO!
Fish was not ready to be a head coach.
Chaney was ok. Former COY with Rockets. Bad gig here and Isiah was shamefully awful to him.
Lenny Wilkens not on the list?
Rambis was interim. They don't really count.
I think there's Larry Brown and then everyone else. Larry Brown legitimately tried to sabotage the team to either wrest control as dual GM from Isiah or get fired with a big contract that would pay him millions to sit at home. Any other guys you put on the list had their personal failings but only Larry Brown went out of his way to embarrass the team and the franchise.
I still remember the interview he gave about starting players in their hometowns. It was a master's class in not giving a fuck.
I also have a pretty low opinion of Fisher. Giving 'the team' two days off during training camp so he could go cross country to see his girlfriend and taking a red0-eye back that arrives at 6 am hours before practice was unprofessional and a slap in the face to Phil Jackson. Phil should have fired him on the spot but the Matt Barnes situation complicated it even more. Fisher lost the locker room before the first game.
I don't think Isiah, Rambis, Cheney, or Fizdale should be on the list. Those guys were just not up to the challenge but at least they tried.
gradyandrew wrote:I think there's Larry Brown and then everyone else. Larry Brown legitimately tried to sabotage the team to either wrest control as dual GM from Isiah or get fired with a big contract that would pay him millions to sit at home. Any other guys you put on the list had their personal failings but only Larry Brown went out of his way to embarrass the team and the franchise.I still remember the interview he gave about starting players in their hometowns. It was a master's class in not giving a fuck.
I also have a pretty low opinion of Fisher. Giving 'the team' two days off during training camp so he could go cross country to see his girlfriend and taking a red0-eye back that arrives at 6 am hours before practice was unprofessional and a slap in the face to Phil Jackson. Phil should have fired him on the spot but the Matt Barnes situation complicated it even more. Fisher lost the locker room before the first game.
I don't think Isiah, Rambis, Cheney, or Fizdale should be on the list. Those guys were just not up to the challenge but at least they tried.
I agree with your assesment. Brown may be a great coach but he was ans a s s hole here.
JesseDark wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I think there's Larry Brown and then everyone else. Larry Brown legitimately tried to sabotage the team to either wrest control as dual GM from Isiah or get fired with a big contract that would pay him millions to sit at home. Any other guys you put on the list had their personal failings but only Larry Brown went out of his way to embarrass the team and the franchise.I still remember the interview he gave about starting players in their hometowns. It was a master's class in not giving a fuck.
I also have a pretty low opinion of Fisher. Giving 'the team' two days off during training camp so he could go cross country to see his girlfriend and taking a red0-eye back that arrives at 6 am hours before practice was unprofessional and a slap in the face to Phil Jackson. Phil should have fired him on the spot but the Matt Barnes situation complicated it even more. Fisher lost the locker room before the first game.
I don't think Isiah, Rambis, Cheney, or Fizdale should be on the list. Those guys were just not up to the challenge but at least they tried.
I agree with your assesment. Brown may be a great coach but he was ans a s s hole here.
But was he wrong, though? Larry Brown was a great coach by the time he got here. Hindsight being 20/20, what if Larry was able to get Iaiah fired? I don't think it could have gotten worse.
joec32033 wrote:JesseDark wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I think there's Larry Brown and then everyone else. Larry Brown legitimately tried to sabotage the team to either wrest control as dual GM from Isiah or get fired with a big contract that would pay him millions to sit at home. Any other guys you put on the list had their personal failings but only Larry Brown went out of his way to embarrass the team and the franchise.I still remember the interview he gave about starting players in their hometowns. It was a master's class in not giving a fuck.
I also have a pretty low opinion of Fisher. Giving 'the team' two days off during training camp so he could go cross country to see his girlfriend and taking a red0-eye back that arrives at 6 am hours before practice was unprofessional and a slap in the face to Phil Jackson. Phil should have fired him on the spot but the Matt Barnes situation complicated it even more. Fisher lost the locker room before the first game.
I don't think Isiah, Rambis, Cheney, or Fizdale should be on the list. Those guys were just not up to the challenge but at least they tried.
I agree with your assesment. Brown may be a great coach but he was ans a s s hole here.
But was he wrong, though? Larry Brown was a great coach by the time he got here. Hindsight being 20/20, what if Larry was able to get Iaiah fired? I don't think it could have gotten worse.
If Larry had been coach for a season or two it would have been different, but 6 months into a job trying to get the guy who hired you fired is just another level of being a jerk. I remember the Isiah and Dolan interview after he was fired and Dolan said something like "there was never any question that he had to go." Say what you will about Dolan, he's a pretty loyal guy. Larry Brown clearly wasn't.
Ill play devils advocate for a this one.
Truth was Isiah did have to go. Truth was Isiah constructed an awful team and was an awful executive.
Larry was wrong but for all the right reasons.
Eventually Isiah melted down. Larry was accelerating the process.
Larry Brown coached teams always improved substantially to spectacularly upon him taking the reins..
.until he came to the Knicks….
Isiah was a pretty good coach for us- terrible GM, awful trades but good eye for talent in the draft.
Don Chaney was a really good coach. I complained about him at the time, but he got more out of less talent than maybe any coach we've had recently.
Bob Hill has to be on the list - I don't remember him, but certainly was watching the knicks at the time.
Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek all had the issue of Phil Jackson being the 'coach'. But they definitely deserve to be on any awful Knick Coaching list.
He was 56-108 two years as knick coach.
The year we won just 23 games we had the highest payroll in the league.
Not just that, it was 40% higher than Portland that year who was second.
Perhaps one thinks back to his coaching stint with Indiana and outside of year ending disappointments he did a respectable job there.
Here, he was an epically bad GM, bad executive, bad husband (Anucha), bad dad (he over dosed on sleeping pills and said the emergency was his daughter, and bad coach.
Perhaps he has changed for the bettter. But as a knick exec and coach, he was epically awful.
Larry Brown tried to save the team? Larry was an asshole with a HOF coaching resume, but Issiah was a piece of shit.
I respect Issiah the ball player. Not the guy that burned down the CBL, Failed Toronto stint, got fired from Indy job and the well doccumented knick experience.
Nalod wrote:He was 56-108 two years as knick coach.
The year we won just 23 games we had the highest payroll in the league.
Not just that, it was 40% higher than Portland that year who was second. Perhaps one thinks back to his coaching stint with Indiana and outside of year ending disappointments he did a respectable job there.
Here, he was an epically bad GM, bad executive, bad husband (Anucha), bad dad (he over dosed on sleeping pills and said the emergency was his daughter, and bad coach.
Perhaps he has changed for the bettter. But as a knick exec and coach, he was epically awful.
Larry Brown tried to save the team? Larry was an asshole with a HOF coaching resume, but Issiah was a piece of shit.
I respect Issiah the ball player. Not the guy that burned down the CBL, Failed Toronto stint, got fired from Indy job and the well doccumented knick experience.
So that is the interesting thing about Isiah. He put an awful roster together because he tried to put a new engine in a plane as I remember him describing not being able to rebuild in NYC.
But I thought as a coach, he did ok. We sucked, but that was Isiah the GM.
As a coach, I don't know that I would put him in as a lock for 4 worst.
All the side stuff - absolutely. X & Os, though, motivating players - I thought he did ok, at least as I remember thinking at the time.
franco12 wrote:Nalod wrote:He was 56-108 two years as knick coach.
The year we won just 23 games we had the highest payroll in the league.
Not just that, it was 40% higher than Portland that year who was second. Perhaps one thinks back to his coaching stint with Indiana and outside of year ending disappointments he did a respectable job there.
Here, he was an epically bad GM, bad executive, bad husband (Anucha), bad dad (he over dosed on sleeping pills and said the emergency was his daughter, and bad coach.
Perhaps he has changed for the bettter. But as a knick exec and coach, he was epically awful.
Larry Brown tried to save the team? Larry was an asshole with a HOF coaching resume, but Issiah was a piece of shit.
I respect Issiah the ball player. Not the guy that burned down the CBL, Failed Toronto stint, got fired from Indy job and the well doccumented knick experience.
So that is the interesting thing about Isiah. He put an awful roster together because he tried to put a new engine in a plane as I remember him describing not being able to rebuild in NYC.
But I thought as a coach, he did ok. We sucked, but that was Isiah the GM.
As a coach, I don't know that I would put him in as a lock for 4 worst.
All the side stuff - absolutely. X & Os, though, motivating players - I thought he did ok, at least as I remember thinking at the time.
33 win season.
Followed by a 23 win season and the payroll as described. How did a 23win season "do ok"?
I could not watch the games because his face.
As for Larry "Start in your town" Brown......It was bad. Circus finish. He stepped on Isiah and traded Ariza for Steve Francis who was on the deep decline.
That said, I seem to recall larry could not figure out a line up and gave his players a chance to compete. The "start in home town" I thought was hm throwin up his hands and said "Fuckit", see if this works. It was bad. It was that bad.
We don't really know what went down with Larry Brown. He could have been promised certain things, arrived and saw the sh#t show Isiah had created and realized the only way was to try to wrestle control away from Isiah. So while that is not admirable behavior - some of us that suffered through the Isiah Years are more forgiving because the Isiah reign needed to end... and at least partially as a result of LB being here - Isiah was later ousted.
I think Bob Hill was pretty lousy, Rambis was forgettable, etc but for me - Fizdale was absolutely the worst coach for our Knicks. Yes he may have been given a directive to play Knox and tank... but you could do that with some assemblance of coaching chops... Fiz looked like he had no idea what he was doing the entire time he was here.
You guys are giving Brown way too much credit. He just sucked here. There was no plan to become the GM. Yes he had a bad team built by Isiah but he did nothing but b tch and antagonize his own players several of whom were rookies
Philc1 wrote:You guys are giving Brown way too much credit. He just sucked here. There was no plan to become the GM. Yes he had a bad team built by Isiah but he did nothing but b tch and antagonize his own players several of whom were rookies
Too much credit?
The man has a HOF resume and a LONG track record of winning.
Nobody said to take him of the list. He is a great coach. I think its a matter of saying his lone season was one of the 4 worst. It was. It was bizarre. He came hear after winning a chip and runner up losing in the finals. Can’t say he forgot how to coach over one summer. He did a bad job here. Nobody said otherwise.
MDA might be HOF bound. Not here.
Or Wilkens.
Or Don Nelson.
Great coaches who had awful seasons. Great coaches who had bad seasons. There is a difference.
Fish, Rambis and Fiz were not good coaches.; Fish is out for now. Rambis did not return to the sidelines. Fiz seems to be working on his craft as an assistant.
Coaches can and often can change and improve.
Philc1 wrote:You guys are giving Brown way too much credit. He just sucked here. There was no plan to become the GM. Yes he had a bad team built by Isiah but he did nothing but b tch and antagonize his own players several of whom were rookies
Wrong there, This was Brown's MO his first season as coach. Break them down, and build them back up. That's how Brown was able to compete against teams with more talent. Put aside the GM rumors. that's how he built contenders. Top 5 all time best coach IMO
