Knicks · Beal now available? (page 5)

gradyandrew @ 6/18/2023 11:32 PM
A friend just linked two screen shots that Ishiba's net worth has almost doubled to 9 billion in the last 6 months and the guy won an NCAA championship in 2000 with MSU. He's got money to burn. I wouldn't be surprised to see Phoenix just be aggressive in resigning their players, luxury tax concerns be damned.
Clean @ 6/18/2023 11:57 PM

This is why those protected picks were seen as worthless to Danny Ainge. I would do the trade again to open up space for Brunson but to say we did a good trade simply for getting 3 picks for the one we traded is not seing how bad those protections are.
Alpha1971 @ 6/19/2023 7:23 AM
Clean wrote:
This is why those protected picks were seen as worthless to Danny Ainge. I would do the trade again to open up space for Brunson but to say we did a good trade simply for getting 3 picks for the one we traded is not seing how bad those protections are.

Man this new CBA is ready having consequences and we haven't reached next season. These changes are going to cause other teams to shed players and team are going to be dumping high contract players for whatever they can get. In the Beal trade DC didn't even get a fake first rounder. So I'd say a possibly fake first is still better then no first rounder at all to some GM in a trade. Plus this CBA is going to cause parity in the league and who knows DC makes some good moves and by 2026 they turn out to be in the playoffs. As they crash and rebuild other teams will also and they just might pick up players with their cap space and in the draft that makes them better then other teams who will decide to rebuild themselves

Alpha1971 @ 6/19/2023 7:30 AM
These draft protections also tie the hands of the Pistons and DC. What were the teams thinking when making them so far out in the future ? In the future I think the protections mutually agreed on will be more likely to convey. I would say top 4 protected is what I would take. But the Detroit and DC firsts rounders have the least value for sure but in combo with other picks or players might have value. Hope is the name of the game for a fan
MS @ 6/19/2023 8:09 AM
Exactly the type of move from this type of owner.

4 picks, Crowder, Bridges, Johnson for Durant was a huge overpay. One team out there Durant wants to go to and they give up every asset they had.

This one is a head scratcher scoring wasn’t the problem, depth was. Beal is always injured they needed players, especially with Durant.

Thank god we didn’t jump in here and do what last regimes would have.

As long as we get smart with signings that can provide depth to our starters we are going to be in a great position.

Naz Reid, Divencenzo, Seth Curry, Alec Burks, Ingles

We have enough if IQ, Grimes, RJ get in the gym and start shooting. Thibs needs to put more ball movement and motion in the offense.

Knixkik @ 6/19/2023 9:39 AM
This was really the plan going in for the new Wizards President? Sell at the lowest point for Beal and get literally nothing ? Not even letting the off-season shake out a bit, as that deal was always going to be there. Maybe Beal re-assess the landscape and adds more teams to his list. This is the difference between guys who run the wizards and twolves, and someone like Ainge. Good organizations take advantage of bad ones. Not sure this trend of new Presidents coming in and making the fast, desperate move.
Alpha1971 @ 6/19/2023 9:48 AM
MS wrote:Exactly the type of move from this type of owner.

4 picks, Crowder, Bridges, Johnson for Durant was a huge overpay. One team out there Durant wants to go to and they give up every asset they had.

This one is a head scratcher scoring wasn’t the problem, depth was. Beal is always injured they needed players, especially with Durant.

Thank god we didn’t jump in here and do what last regimes would have.

As long as we get smart with signings that can provide depth to our starters we are going to be in a great position.

Naz Reid, Divencenzo, Seth Curry, Alec Burks, Ingles

We have enough if IQ, Grimes, RJ get in the gym and start shooting. Thibs needs to put more ball movement and motion in the offense.


If Josh Hart and RJ shoot average from 3 with volumn the team takes a step up with Grimes taking a third year step up. Those three things are not far fetched plus a good mid level exception acquisition to add to the team talent pool.
Nalod @ 6/19/2023 9:56 AM
NTC with Beal made things much harder. With Durant you had bidding and he is a bonafide winner and you get a top return if healthy.
Beal is max money on a fresh contract and he is not really a max player. Durant was at the time.

Wizards likely think "What if we let him walk last year, would we be better off? If so they got nothing.
Reality is a bitch and new CBA is tougher.

Knicks pick. We have for three more years. Im not sweating 3 years to it for a "convey". In a world of parity you can rise or sink faster.

Knicks pass was a good thing. who knows if it even made sense to Knicks or beal to even move on it.
Windy told the world don't be surprised how cheap he could come, but that contract carries some weight.
There window is tight. Ours is not as such.
Knicks can jump on a shocker if it comes up. They do. It does not have to be a starphuch. it can be a series of smaller deals.
Knicks have clean contracts. Might even see Drose kept as they are salary filler. Same with EF.
Knicks more into the new era with some wind at their backs and Aller is on it.
KAT? Not like he and This were great first time around. His super max is an issue for a player with a history as he has.
Zion? WE can do it. Not sure for who and thats on NOLA needs and direction. Hard enough to direct Knicks, let alone what's logical for Nola.
Ayton? Suns need role players. Mitch, EF, Obi and a pick could do it. Not sure I want to but it checks a lot of boxes for them. I don't care if they are boom or bust (suns), but what it does for us.

Big picture: Knicks are a good team. Not great. Have picks. Have root. Have no bad contracts. Are patient. They play in the Mecca.

EwingsGlass @ 6/19/2023 1:15 PM
Clean wrote:
This is why those protected picks were seen as worthless to Danny Ainge. I would do the trade again to open up space for Brunson but to say we did a good trade simply for getting 3 picks for the one we traded is not seing how bad those protections are.

Sometimes blowing it up is the right thing to do and doesn't necessarily result in bad drafts. It really depends on how they proceed moving forward. I mean, Utah "blew it up" but was still the 9 pick overall.

Next, the Wiz can't trade that 1st until it conveys, so at the very least we have an Eastern Conference rival tied up from making big moves. I have no problem sitting on this pick for a few years. Wiz goes 12 - 10 - 8. Detroit goes 18, 13, 11, 9 until 2027. They can't make a move with their picks either. What's the rush?

We traded an 11 pick we didn't want for 3 picks that were protected. One we essentially flipped one for the Bucks 2025 pick 1-4 protected when helping Detroit get Jalen Duren and clearing cap for Brunson. We now have two picks that probably convey in the 11 to 18 range or convert to 2nds. Versus an 11 pick which salary cap would have blocked us from getting Isiah Hartenstein once we cleared cap to get Brunson.

I think people get worked up over silly nonsense. Our guys see through the nuance. Fucking brilliant moves so far. Just because a bet doesn't payout this year doesn't make it a bad bet. I hope they keep passing until we get the best pick possible.

martin @ 6/19/2023 1:29 PM
KnickDanger @ 6/19/2023 1:41 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
Clean wrote:
This is why those protected picks were seen as worthless to Danny Ainge. I would do the trade again to open up space for Brunson but to say we did a good trade simply for getting 3 picks for the one we traded is not seing how bad those protections are.

Sometimes blowing it up is the right thing to do and doesn't necessarily result in bad drafts. It really depends on how they proceed moving forward. I mean, Utah "blew it up" but was still the 9 pick overall.

Next, the Wiz can't trade that 1st until it conveys, so at the very least we have an Eastern Conference rival tied up from making big moves. I have no problem sitting on this pick for a few years. Wiz goes 12 - 10 - 8. Detroit goes 18, 13, 11, 9 until 2027. They can't make a move with their picks either. What's the rush?

We traded an 11 pick we didn't want for 3 picks that were protected. One we essentially flipped one for the Bucks 2025 pick 1-4 protected when helping Detroit get Jalen Duren and clearing cap for Brunson. We now have two picks that probably convey in the 11 to 18 range or convert to 2nds. Versus an 11 pick which salary cap would have blocked us from getting Isiah Hartenstein once we cleared cap to get Brunson.

I think people get worked up over silly nonsense. Our guys see through the nuance. Fucking brilliant moves so far. Just because a bet doesn't payout this year doesn't make it a bad bet. I hope they keep passing until we get the best pick possible.

The idea that these picks "have little to no value" is pathetic riling of the pants wetting faction. If in hindsight - which will be a few years away to see what the outcome was - the payoff was zilch then by all means have at it. That seems unlikely and at worst it would seem to me a calculated risk didn't pay off. But I know there are those who just can't wait for that warm damp feeling.

martin @ 6/19/2023 1:52 PM
KnickDanger wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Clean wrote:
This is why those protected picks were seen as worthless to Danny Ainge. I would do the trade again to open up space for Brunson but to say we did a good trade simply for getting 3 picks for the one we traded is not seing how bad those protections are.

Sometimes blowing it up is the right thing to do and doesn't necessarily result in bad drafts. It really depends on how they proceed moving forward. I mean, Utah "blew it up" but was still the 9 pick overall.

Next, the Wiz can't trade that 1st until it conveys, so at the very least we have an Eastern Conference rival tied up from making big moves. I have no problem sitting on this pick for a few years. Wiz goes 12 - 10 - 8. Detroit goes 18, 13, 11, 9 until 2027. They can't make a move with their picks either. What's the rush?

We traded an 11 pick we didn't want for 3 picks that were protected. One we essentially flipped one for the Bucks 2025 pick 1-4 protected when helping Detroit get Jalen Duren and clearing cap for Brunson. We now have two picks that probably convey in the 11 to 18 range or convert to 2nds. Versus an 11 pick which salary cap would have blocked us from getting Isiah Hartenstein once we cleared cap to get Brunson.

I think people get worked up over silly nonsense. Our guys see through the nuance. Fucking brilliant moves so far. Just because a bet doesn't payout this year doesn't make it a bad bet. I hope they keep passing until we get the best pick possible.

The idea that these picks "have little to no value" is pathetic riling of the pants wetting faction. If in hindsight - which will be a few years away to see what the outcome was - the payoff was zilch then by all means have at it. That seems unlikely and at worst it would seem to me a calculated risk didn't pay off. But I know there are those who just can't wait for that warm damp feeling.

I’m peeing my pants cause of laughter, spot on

KnickDanger @ 6/19/2023 2:48 PM
martin wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Clean wrote:
This is why those protected picks were seen as worthless to Danny Ainge. I would do the trade again to open up space for Brunson but to say we did a good trade simply for getting 3 picks for the one we traded is not seing how bad those protections are.

Sometimes blowing it up is the right thing to do and doesn't necessarily result in bad drafts. It really depends on how they proceed moving forward. I mean, Utah "blew it up" but was still the 9 pick overall.

Next, the Wiz can't trade that 1st until it conveys, so at the very least we have an Eastern Conference rival tied up from making big moves. I have no problem sitting on this pick for a few years. Wiz goes 12 - 10 - 8. Detroit goes 18, 13, 11, 9 until 2027. They can't make a move with their picks either. What's the rush?

We traded an 11 pick we didn't want for 3 picks that were protected. One we essentially flipped one for the Bucks 2025 pick 1-4 protected when helping Detroit get Jalen Duren and clearing cap for Brunson. We now have two picks that probably convey in the 11 to 18 range or convert to 2nds. Versus an 11 pick which salary cap would have blocked us from getting Isiah Hartenstein once we cleared cap to get Brunson.

I think people get worked up over silly nonsense. Our guys see through the nuance. Fucking brilliant moves so far. Just because a bet doesn't payout this year doesn't make it a bad bet. I hope they keep passing until we get the best pick possible.

The idea that these picks "have little to no value" is pathetic riling of the pants wetting faction. If in hindsight - which will be a few years away to see what the outcome was - the payoff was zilch then by all means have at it. That seems unlikely and at worst it would seem to me a calculated risk didn't pay off. But I know there are those who just can't wait for that warm damp feeling.

I’m peeing my pants cause of laughter, spot on

Feels good, right?

😉

Alpha1971 @ 6/19/2023 3:16 PM
From a value perspective would you trade DC their protected pick back to them for 4 of the second rounders they have ? Or for a similar package of second rounders from another team ? Would those second rounders be beneficial or do we keep the protective pic ?
Alpha1971 @ 6/19/2023 3:36 PM
KP, Deni for Heart, Obi, Evan and the DC pic and perhaps a future pic like the Detroit pic. Then team uses MLE for a replacement for Obi. KP, Deni, Hart, IQ MLE is a good second unit.
Philc1 @ 6/19/2023 3:49 PM
Alpha1971 wrote:From a value perspective would you trade DC their protected pick back to them for 4 of the second rounders they have ? Or for a similar package of second rounders from another team ? Would those second rounders be beneficial or do we keep the protective pic ?

Yes to all 3

Philc1 @ 6/19/2023 3:51 PM
KnickDanger wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Clean wrote:
This is why those protected picks were seen as worthless to Danny Ainge. I would do the trade again to open up space for Brunson but to say we did a good trade simply for getting 3 picks for the one we traded is not seing how bad those protections are.

Sometimes blowing it up is the right thing to do and doesn't necessarily result in bad drafts. It really depends on how they proceed moving forward. I mean, Utah "blew it up" but was still the 9 pick overall.

Next, the Wiz can't trade that 1st until it conveys, so at the very least we have an Eastern Conference rival tied up from making big moves. I have no problem sitting on this pick for a few years. Wiz goes 12 - 10 - 8. Detroit goes 18, 13, 11, 9 until 2027. They can't make a move with their picks either. What's the rush?

We traded an 11 pick we didn't want for 3 picks that were protected. One we essentially flipped one for the Bucks 2025 pick 1-4 protected when helping Detroit get Jalen Duren and clearing cap for Brunson. We now have two picks that probably convey in the 11 to 18 range or convert to 2nds. Versus an 11 pick which salary cap would have blocked us from getting Isiah Hartenstein once we cleared cap to get Brunson.

I think people get worked up over silly nonsense. Our guys see through the nuance. Fucking brilliant moves so far. Just because a bet doesn't payout this year doesn't make it a bad bet. I hope they keep passing until we get the best pick possible.

The idea that these picks "have little to no value" is pathetic riling of the pants wetting faction. If in hindsight - which will be a few years away to see what the outcome was - the payoff was zilch then by all means have at it. That seems unlikely and at worst it would seem to me a calculated risk didn't pay off. But I know there are those who just can't wait for that warm damp feeling.

Mitch was a 2nd round pick. Back in the day Anthony Mason was the 53rd overall pick

Alpha1971 @ 6/19/2023 4:33 PM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2023/6/19/23766197/how-the-bradley-beal-trade-might-affect-the-knicks-trove-of-protected-first-round-picks
martin @ 6/19/2023 6:59 PM
Is it wild to say Beal was largely a salary dump?

EwingsGlass @ 6/19/2023 7:35 PM
martin wrote:Is it wild to say Beal was largely a salary dump?

Not at all. I also think Mat Ishiba is drinking IT’s Koop-Aid. They went from having all of their draft picks and one of the best young rosters in the league to being a hard capped with injury laden superstars that haven’t shown the ability to win. I mean,

[CP3]/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Ayton looked like a super team for 10 years with something taking CP3’s place and filling in the blanks with Vets and draft picks.

Now, they basically are hard capped and have Beal and Durant looking to get paid like 80% of the cap by themselves and between them can’t play more than 60 games.

I wouldn’t trade the Knicks position in the league for the Suns at all. They are Brooklyn West. Yeah, they may win some games, but they are one MCL away from being down for a decade.

EwingsGlass @ 6/19/2023 7:41 PM
Alpha1971 wrote:From a value perspective would you trade DC their protected pick back to them for 4 of the second rounders they have ? Or for a similar package of second rounders from another team ? Would those second rounders be beneficial or do we keep the protective pic ?

No. Roster space is at a premium. I see value in the second round for sure but I can’t currently see the benefit of 4 2nd rders when I have all of my 1st round draft picks and 4 conditionals. I don’t think those conditionals land a superstar. But I do think they combine to move up in drafts to get the guy we are targeting. And there is real value there.

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