Knicks · 2024 draft thread/Summer Offseason (page 47)

martin @ 6/28/2024 2:52 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
VDesai wrote:Goga is kind of Hartenstein light. His November/December numbers when the Magic needed to play him are excellent. Roughly 8 pts 7 rebs with 2 assists 2 blocks in 22-23 min per night. Still only 24 yrs old. He'd be my fallback.

This. Though I might be convinced to take a flyer on Wiseman if Thibs thinks he can fix him.

Knicks would look for a proven commodity for their playoff team, Wiseman is not in that world.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Knicks aren’t in a begging position, quite the opposite.

They turned second round, no college, barely any basketball skill Mitch into a beast. They turned iHart into a more that $17M per beast within 2 years although he had a ton going for him already, but it was all on the offensive side of things.

That backup center position for the Knicks is a goldmine for the right player, especially knowing their coaching and culture. Goga will send all his family and his relatives to block any other center from even getting a whiff of a chance.

EwingsGlass @ 6/28/2024 3:08 PM
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
VDesai wrote:Goga is kind of Hartenstein light. His November/December numbers when the Magic needed to play him are excellent. Roughly 8 pts 7 rebs with 2 assists 2 blocks in 22-23 min per night. Still only 24 yrs old. He'd be my fallback.

This. Though I might be convinced to take a flyer on Wiseman if Thibs thinks he can fix him.

Knicks would look for a proven commodity for their playoff team, Wiseman is not in that world.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Knicks aren’t in a begging position, quite the opposite.

They turned second round, no college, barely any basketball skill Mitch into a beast. They turned iHart into a more that $17M per beast within 2 years although he had a ton going for him already, but it was all on the offensive side of things.

That backup center position for the Knicks is a goldmine for the right player, especially knowing their coaching and culture. Goga will send all his family and his relatives to block any other center from even getting a whiff of a chance.

Only beggars from the position of having very little liquidity at the moment. I like Goga as a possibility. I think Drummond is best suited to how we play. I like Jalen Smith (as you pointed out) at the top of the list, but can't figure out how to pay him. iHart is above most of these guys, but also can't figure out how to pay him. As a backup to Mitch, I don't hate Wiseman. He's not my first choice, but I could take a flyer on him. He's a good screener and some fundamental skills away from being a better option than many of the guys we named. I think the issue with Wiseman is that I expected him to be elite. He's not. But I think he can be rostered without too much trouble.

BigDaddyG @ 6/28/2024 3:20 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
VDesai wrote:Goga is kind of Hartenstein light. His November/December numbers when the Magic needed to play him are excellent. Roughly 8 pts 7 rebs with 2 assists 2 blocks in 22-23 min per night. Still only 24 yrs old. He'd be my fallback.

This. Though I might be convinced to take a flyer on Wiseman if Thibs thinks he can fix him.

Knicks would look for a proven commodity for their playoff team, Wiseman is not in that world.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Knicks aren’t in a begging position, quite the opposite.

They turned second round, no college, barely any basketball skill Mitch into a beast. They turned iHart into a more that $17M per beast within 2 years although he had a ton going for him already, but it was all on the offensive side of things.

That backup center position for the Knicks is a goldmine for the right player, especially knowing their coaching and culture. Goga will send all his family and his relatives to block any other center from even getting a whiff of a chance.

Only beggars from the position of having very little liquidity at the moment. I like Goga as a possibility. I think Drummond is best suited to how we play. I like Jalen Smith (as you pointed out) at the top of the list, but can't figure out how to pay him. iHart is above most of these guys, but also can't figure out how to pay him. As a backup to Mitch, I don't hate Wiseman. He's not my first choice, but I could take a flyer on him. He's a good screener and some fundamental skills away from being a better option than many of the guys we named. I think the issue with Wiseman is that I expected him to be elite. He's not. But I think he can be rostered without too much trouble.


My main issue with Wiseman is that he constantly misses defensive rotation and his such a bad rim protector despite his size and athleticism. I'd rather just play Sims. Before you 'But Thibs is the big man whisperer", consider he had years of mentorship under Draymond.I just don't see it in him
Nalod @ 6/28/2024 3:54 PM
Wiseman hitting a low. Pretty shitty to get waived by Detroit.
But.....Perhaps its at his request so he can reboot his career somewhere else?
I don't see it, non of us do. Two years under Dray is also two years of getting ones testicles slapped and bullied in practice? I don't know, maybe it was too much too soon and he was not emotionally ready? Then to be in Detroit that was carrying many bigs was not a good place.
Enter Knicks. He can come but cheap. Think of it as "Tuition" and learn. Get in shape, and be the way of the Thibian.......
Humility, honesty, and devotion to all things Thibian.
First order is change agents. Three letters.. CAA. Then sign a cap friendly deal, say two years. Year two a team option with a raise..
Does he have the Acumen to learn his assignments? Humility to grow? I have no idea.
martin @ 6/28/2024 4:22 PM
nycericanguy @ 6/28/2024 4:57 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
VDesai wrote:Goga is kind of Hartenstein light. His November/December numbers when the Magic needed to play him are excellent. Roughly 8 pts 7 rebs with 2 assists 2 blocks in 22-23 min per night. Still only 24 yrs old. He'd be my fallback.

This. Though I might be convinced to take a flyer on Wiseman if Thibs thinks he can fix him.

Knicks would look for a proven commodity for their playoff team, Wiseman is not in that world.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Knicks aren’t in a begging position, quite the opposite.

They turned second round, no college, barely any basketball skill Mitch into a beast. They turned iHart into a more that $17M per beast within 2 years although he had a ton going for him already, but it was all on the offensive side of things.

That backup center position for the Knicks is a goldmine for the right player, especially knowing their coaching and culture. Goga will send all his family and his relatives to block any other center from even getting a whiff of a chance.

Only beggars from the position of having very little liquidity at the moment. I like Goga as a possibility. I think Drummond is best suited to how we play. I like Jalen Smith (as you pointed out) at the top of the list, but can't figure out how to pay him. iHart is above most of these guys, but also can't figure out how to pay him. As a backup to Mitch, I don't hate Wiseman. He's not my first choice, but I could take a flyer on him. He's a good screener and some fundamental skills away from being a better option than many of the guys we named. I think the issue with Wiseman is that I expected him to be elite. He's not. But I think he can be rostered without too much trouble.

if Ihart leaves we'll have the MLE to offer to someone like Jalen or Valencunias.

VDesai @ 6/28/2024 5:00 PM
martin wrote:

So has anyone figured out the value of collecting draft rights to guys who are never gonna play yet? There must be some reason to do it, right?

BigDaddyG @ 6/28/2024 5:01 PM
VDesai wrote:
martin wrote:

So has anyone figured out the value of collecting draft rights to guys who are never gonna play yet? There must be some reason to do it, right?

Sometimes you just to match salaries in trades.

VDesai @ 6/28/2024 5:21 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:
martin wrote:

So has anyone figured out the value of collecting draft rights to guys who are never gonna play yet? There must be some reason to do it, right?

Sometimes you just to match salaries in trades.


But what salary slot is attached to it? they arent even signed to a contract
MaTT4281 @ 6/28/2024 5:39 PM
I followed #25

EwingsGlass @ 6/28/2024 5:51 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
VDesai wrote:Goga is kind of Hartenstein light. His November/December numbers when the Magic needed to play him are excellent. Roughly 8 pts 7 rebs with 2 assists 2 blocks in 22-23 min per night. Still only 24 yrs old. He'd be my fallback.

This. Though I might be convinced to take a flyer on Wiseman if Thibs thinks he can fix him.

Knicks would look for a proven commodity for their playoff team, Wiseman is not in that world.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Knicks aren’t in a begging position, quite the opposite.

They turned second round, no college, barely any basketball skill Mitch into a beast. They turned iHart into a more that $17M per beast within 2 years although he had a ton going for him already, but it was all on the offensive side of things.

That backup center position for the Knicks is a goldmine for the right player, especially knowing their coaching and culture. Goga will send all his family and his relatives to block any other center from even getting a whiff of a chance.

Only beggars from the position of having very little liquidity at the moment. I like Goga as a possibility. I think Drummond is best suited to how we play. I like Jalen Smith (as you pointed out) at the top of the list, but can't figure out how to pay him. iHart is above most of these guys, but also can't figure out how to pay him. As a backup to Mitch, I don't hate Wiseman. He's not my first choice, but I could take a flyer on him. He's a good screener and some fundamental skills away from being a better option than many of the guys we named. I think the issue with Wiseman is that I expected him to be elite. He's not. But I think he can be rostered without too much trouble.


My main issue with Wiseman is that he constantly misses defensive rotation and his such a bad rim protector despite his size and athleticism. I'd rather just play Sims. Before you 'But Thibs is the big man whisperer", consider he had years of mentorship under Draymond.I just don't see it in him

Fair. You 8 Mile’d me. My only argument was gonna be that Thibs is a Big Man Whisperer.

EwingsGlass @ 6/28/2024 5:53 PM
nycericanguy wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
VDesai wrote:Goga is kind of Hartenstein light. His November/December numbers when the Magic needed to play him are excellent. Roughly 8 pts 7 rebs with 2 assists 2 blocks in 22-23 min per night. Still only 24 yrs old. He'd be my fallback.

This. Though I might be convinced to take a flyer on Wiseman if Thibs thinks he can fix him.

Knicks would look for a proven commodity for their playoff team, Wiseman is not in that world.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Knicks aren’t in a begging position, quite the opposite.

They turned second round, no college, barely any basketball skill Mitch into a beast. They turned iHart into a more that $17M per beast within 2 years although he had a ton going for him already, but it was all on the offensive side of things.

That backup center position for the Knicks is a goldmine for the right player, especially knowing their coaching and culture. Goga will send all his family and his relatives to block any other center from even getting a whiff of a chance.

Only beggars from the position of having very little liquidity at the moment. I like Goga as a possibility. I think Drummond is best suited to how we play. I like Jalen Smith (as you pointed out) at the top of the list, but can't figure out how to pay him. iHart is above most of these guys, but also can't figure out how to pay him. As a backup to Mitch, I don't hate Wiseman. He's not my first choice, but I could take a flyer on him. He's a good screener and some fundamental skills away from being a better option than many of the guys we named. I think the issue with Wiseman is that I expected him to be elite. He's not. But I think he can be rostered without too much trouble.

if Ihart leaves we'll have the MLE to offer to someone like Jalen or Valencunias.

But you hard cap at 179 again.

BigDaddyG @ 6/28/2024 6:36 PM
VDesai wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:
martin wrote:

So has anyone figured out the value of collecting draft rights to guys who are never gonna play yet? There must be some reason to do it, right?

Sometimes you just to match salaries in trades.


But what salary slot is attached to it? they arent even signed to a contract

I'm not sure.Maybe it's just an inside joke between execs?
EwingsGlass @ 6/28/2024 6:41 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:
martin wrote:

So has anyone figured out the value of collecting draft rights to guys who are never gonna play yet? There must be some reason to do it, right?

Sometimes you just to match salaries in trades.


But what salary slot is attached to it? they arent even signed to a contract

I'm not sure.Maybe it's just an inside joke between execs?

I couldn’t figure it out. I best guess is that the Knicks FO can call anyone they own contract rights to them and speak to them without tampering in the context of contract negotiations. Alternative and probably better argument is that things that aren’t valuable now may be valuable someday. I’ll ext all those worthless bitcoins…

martin @ 6/28/2024 7:13 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VDesai wrote:
martin wrote:

So has anyone figured out the value of collecting draft rights to guys who are never gonna play yet? There must be some reason to do it, right?

Sometimes you just to match salaries in trades.


But what salary slot is attached to it? they arent even signed to a contract

I'm not sure.Maybe it's just an inside joke between execs?

I couldn’t figure it out. I best guess is that the Knicks FO can call anyone they own contract rights to them and speak to them without tampering in the context of contract negotiations. Alternative and probably better argument is that things that aren’t valuable now may be valuable someday. I’ll ext all those worthless bitcoins…

There is a great interview article out there on Brock Aller where he discusses this very question. I may get it wrong.

Essentially every trade has to exchange an asset. Second round picks you don’t care about satisfy this. That’s the core reason.

When a trade is announced that a GM traded a very late first for 6 seconds, there is some cache to a FO to announce that exchange, even if 5 of those second are meaningless, no one checks and someone just pulled off a seemingly very nice exchange and fans and media feel good about this. It’s a weird dynamic but one that plays out.

LivingLegend @ 6/28/2024 9:47 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Probably the funniest and most entertaining draft with all the trades.

I like the Kolek pick. He was at the top of my list based on the late and very little research I did. He plays like a Thibs type and has the skillset with the passing that we needed off the bench.

Did no research on Dadiet, McCullers or Hukporti. But Dadiet's highlights are impressive. He looks as talented as any of the lotto wings. He is a perfect wing to stash away overseas or in Westchester until he is ready. Going up against Hart, OG and Bridges in practice is a great way to learn too.

And the other two guys were picked in the 50s so it's whatever.

All I have is questions. Kolek means we don’t bring over Joku? Then what do we do with Joku?
Dadiet? Need more info.
McCullers defensive SG with no offensive game?
Hukporti?

All those trade backs. Probably should have additional consideration, no? What’s the additional consideration?

I guess Kolek could result in Joku being added to a trade (implications are fuzzy) or staying in Europe. I believe Kolek will be on roster as experienced 23 year old college starter.

I think McCullers has some offense but needs to put in the proverbial 1,000 3’s a day and likely tweak his form. See Trevor Ariza.

Have to assume Dadiet cap hit is going to be moved somehow - not sure if staying overseas is only option but he can’t sit all year on bench and we need his $ for other moves.

Hukporti I’ll be surprised if he ever plays a second but still unclear why we moved down an inch to pick up P Koponen 36 year old rights.

I don't feel they drafted Dadiet with the intentions to move him, or it would have been done already. Dadiet also made it very known his desire to stay with the club that drafted him leading up to the draft. Odds are he gets his work in the G league and the Knicks accounted for his salary when crunching.

Right but couldn't (if needed) Dadiet be added to potential Bridges traded to make #s work in some favor with his 1st round salary not hitting our books but acquiring team? Not saying this is likely but he could end up as a potential trade part to incentivize us getting to desired cap #s via lower 2nd round contracts or min vet deals.

LivingLegend @ 6/28/2024 9:48 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:McCullar kind of reminds me of Josh. I think he is a very good pull late in the second. Still doubt he makes the team tho.

Two way slots.

Second round exceptions also. My thing is that I'm not sure he's good enough. This isn't the Fizdsle Knicks we're dealing with anymore. Would you say McCullar is slightly below where Dame Dotson was as a prospect when he was drafted?

What are the different financial implications between using a 2nd round exception (which I believe equates to either a 3 or 4 year minimum deal) or fitting player in as a 2-way slot?


Two ways don't count against the cap, but there are obvious limitations with games played, playoff eligibility etc. Second round exceptions are legit roster spots. Once a player signs, you can do whatever you want with them. It also won't count against the cap until August, giving the team enough time to work out it's financial situation.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/hoop...

Thank you Daddy

LivingLegend @ 6/28/2024 9:51 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:

New York Knicks
Below the tax: $4 million

Below the first apron: $9.3 million

Note: New York is hard capped at the first apron

The trade to acquire Mikal Bridges now hard caps New York at the $178.8 million first apron. The Knicks now have $43 million in flexibility to re-sign OG Anunoby and then fill out the rest of the roster. Barring another trade, free agent Isaiah Hartenstein could be a roster casualty.

Free agents who fit: Isaiah Hartenstein, De'Anthony Melton, Bruce Brown Jr., Josh Richardson, Max Christie, Royce O'Neale, Saddiq Bey, Isaac Okoro, Naji Marshall, Kelly Oubre Jr., Haywood Highsmith, Joe Ingles, Patrick Williams, Trendon Watford, Jaxson Hayes, Chuma Okeke, Cole Swider, Vlatko Cancar, Bol Bol, Luke Kornet, Goga Bitadze, Mo Wagner and Daniel Theis

Who returns/joins: Julius Randle, Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, Donte DiVincenzo, Miles McBride, Mikal Bridges, Precious Achiuwa (qualifying offer), Jericho Sims (team option), and Pacome Dadiet

Key free agents: Isaiah Hartenstein and Precious Achiuwa

Who might be gone: Alec Burks, Precious Achiuwa, Mamadi Diakite (waived), DaQuan Jeffries (team option declined) and Shake Milton

This CAP crap is mind boggling - I see the notes above indicating we are capped at the 1st Apron BUT can't that change immediately based on additional moves we make? The timing of when things do or don't apply is tricky for my pea brain.

LivingLegend @ 6/28/2024 9:52 PM
martin wrote:

Have always liked this guy but really makes me wonder why he rode bench for Pacers behind both Jackson/Toppin,

He is interesting.

martin @ 6/28/2024 11:02 PM
Interesting

LivingLegend @ 6/28/2024 11:14 PM
My gut tells me PG doesn't really care about winning and will prefer to stay in LA where he is comfortable and close to family / Mother.

Now - what if PG decides he wants join the party to play for Knicks and that is his #1 preference.

Would anyone entertain moving Randle/Mitch(?) for PG? Below assumes we retain I-Hart and hopefully we could retain Precious as back-up C.

PG doesn't bring Randles force but we'd have a tremendously skilled unit and ability to match up with 3 top offensive players on any team.

Brunson
Bridges
PG
OG
I-Hart

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