Knicks · 2024 draft thread/Summer Offseason (page 66)

EwingsGlass @ 7/9/2024 2:03 AM
Charles Bassey waived by Spurs. Kid hasn’t been able to stay healthy but always has had good potential. Would be a decent buy low situation if he is healthy.
Clean @ 7/9/2024 3:34 AM

Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.
Clean @ 7/9/2024 3:37 AM
In addition iHart iis not getng that 3rd year. OKC is going to be in cap hell soon enough. It sucks that you still get punished for drafting well. Oh well, F them for stealing Hart.
Knicksfan @ 7/9/2024 3:56 AM
Makes sense to go for it now if you can, because this apron situation will turn into hell for many teams.
ToddTT @ 7/9/2024 4:24 AM
Off Guard with Austin Rivers, July 2nd.

It’s obvious that Austin watches the Knicks. He spews truths starting about 22 minutes in. Talks last year’s team, this year’s, iHart, and how the Knicks are still better than the Sixers.

https://traffic.megaphone.fm/GLT75174755...

newyorknewyork @ 7/9/2024 8:24 AM
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

Clean @ 7/9/2024 8:48 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

I understand that is what they want but what are they giving up? Teams will no longer have an identity. can't get invested because teams change every year. Teams also get penalized for making right decisions. You found a diamond in the rough and developed him. Guess what he is gone. You drafted well over the years? Well guess what, you can't pay all your draft picks. So some of them are gone or you will have a really bad team to suround them with and no way of improving.

The GSW would have never been able to happen under this new CBA. That was from all drafting well. I am not talking about the KD warrors. That was BS and should have never happened.

Alpha1971 @ 7/9/2024 9:27 AM
Clean wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

I understand that is what they want but what are they giving up? Teams will no longer have an identity. can't get invested because teams change every year. Teams also get penalized for making right decisions. You found a diamond in the rough and developed him. Guess what he is gone. You drafted well over the years? Well guess what, you can't pay all your draft picks. So some of them are gone or you will have a really bad team to suround them with and no way of improving.

The GSW would have never been able to happen under this new CBA. That was from all drafting well. I am not talking about the KD warrors. That was BS and should have never happened.

Eventually teams who draft well may be able to keep their rookies because other teams will be over the cap and these young players won't be able to be lured to other teams.

Nalod @ 7/9/2024 9:46 AM
Clean wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

I understand that is what they want but what are they giving up? Teams will no longer have an identity. can't get invested because teams change every year. Teams also get penalized for making right decisions. You found a diamond in the rough and developed him. Guess what he is gone. You drafted well over the years? Well guess what, you can't pay all your draft picks. So some of them are gone or you will have a really bad team to suround them with and no way of improving.

The GSW would have never been able to happen under this new CBA. That was from all drafting well. I am not talking about the KD warrors. That was BS and should have never happened.

You bring up good points from a fans perspective. Perhaps the long view must also be considered which also includes the business aspect. The "Septian" rule was also in place to protect fans in cities with bad owners who could not help themselves or were dressing up the team short term to sell sooner than later. Owners like him and Sterling for years fueled dynasties in other cities!

Selling the Celtics with valuations now and in three years could be a smart financial move. Ownership buys with the intension of winning and making a profit. Teams used to be nice toys for the super rich but now they are bonafide corporations of sort with many partners involved. Maybe Wyc's backing also wanted to cash out? Cuban sold based on what I read that the future of the league is using the franchise as an anchor for real estate development and with legalized gambling its a bigger deal than he can wrap his head around. Dallas needs a new arena in the next 10 years. The nets move to Brooklyn was in part about the development of the Atlantic Yards. That was two owners ago!!!Ratner did ok but the financial crisis hit him hard. The Russian got it cheap and made out well. Tsai is now parceling out part of his ownership and also will do well.
while eliminating dynasties is a bit of a thing but it also allows other teams to rebuild faster and other teams succeed. Seems that its a way to syphon off "Excess" talent and redistribute it. Clippers had a reasonable offer on the table for Paul George but he felt "Disrespected" by the numbers mostly because there was another number out there. These are few and far between. Klay Thompson was also felt "disrespected". Well, look at his injuries, games missed and his play last year. How his team do with him? They offered him a deal last year and he choose to "bet on himself". Not all teams can satisfy a players ego and realities of aging at the same time.
You also have a team like the knicks who decided to spread paying more players instead of two big ones, and have taken risks with the likes of Rande, Brunson and DDV. They also prepared for this. Boston obtained its players in a very cleaver manner but they too played off rules that teams had to make decisions on. SAS decided Derrick White was not worth building with. Jrue Holiday was moved to bring in Dame, to placate Giannis to stay. There is a domino effect in place.
In the end its a business and keeping the fans engaged is "winning" also. Not every team can win a chip and it takes a bit of luck. That Dallas made finals was brilliant result for NBA. The series sucked but really it was Boston that was far better this whole season than other teams. The fact that they cannot continue given the finances of the roster will bring them down before aging will. Is that fair? Basically there core is Tatum and brown and the others were obtained thru the draft. They choose to go all in and it paid off. They can run it back for another year then make decisions. That Philly was not as formidable as could was due in part by their patience to save cap space last year and wait for Harris to expire.

The price to obtain players has also increased. To get a bonafide talent is not cheap evident by what Minny paid for Rudy, Clev for Donovan, and Knicks for Mikal. It sucks we lost iHart but remember Clippers made decisions on its core talent and could not pay to retain him there, thus we benefited. He got to a contending young team and a huge pay raise. Some players have benefited also!!

Keeping identity? Most pro sports have lost it. NFL has no soul anymore and MLB I don't recognize. As a sports fan I don't hate any team anymore. Why? The turnover is so high no time to dislike anyone and the rivalries are often more made for TV events. We read of ratings and the end is near but at the same time revenue keeps increasing from other sources like sponsorships, gambling, over seas, etc.......and the valuations rise!!!

Do I like all this? No, im a fan. Knicks though were able to rebuild rather quickly using a combination of methods which did not include a long tank job.

newyorknewyork @ 7/9/2024 9:49 AM
Clean wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

I understand that is what they want but what are they giving up? Teams will no longer have an identity. can't get invested because teams change every year. Teams also get penalized for making right decisions. You found a diamond in the rough and developed him. Guess what he is gone. You drafted well over the years? Well guess what, you can't pay all your draft picks. So some of them are gone or you will have a really bad team to suround them with and no way of improving.

The GSW would have never been able to happen under this new CBA. That was from all drafting well. I am not talking about the KD warrors. That was BS and should have never happened.

I don't agree, I can't say i'm a fan of how strict they made the restrictions, but at the end of the day everyone is in the same boat.

Due to Warriors drafting well. Klay, Barnes & Draymond were on their rookie deals. Which allowed them to trade for David Lee, Bogut, sign Iguodala as a FA, use MLE on Livingston. David Lee played 49 games and averaged under 10mins per game in the playoffs the year they won the chip in 2015. Bogut played 65games at 24mins while being the 2nd highest paid player on the team behind David Lee. David Lee & Bogut combined for $28mil at that time. Steph, Klay, Iggy, Barnes, Draymond, Livingston combined for $36mil. Lee & Bogut's $28mil against the cap contributed a *combined* 28mins, 8pts, 8.5rebs, 1.3blks per game in the finals vs the Cavs.

Drafting well, building a core, and being fiscally responsible with surrounding pieces is basically the only way to survive in this climate. Giving someone like Lavine $40+mil max contracts just so they don't lose him will be what takes the biggest hit. Pelicans before this would have thrown max at Ingram, and now they have to truly evaluate if its worth it. With fall back options like Murphy & Jones(draft picks they hit on) they can instead look to move Ingram for more depth pieces that won't have then hamstrung cap wise. The deeper team with overall talent will be the more competitive one in this new NBA.

NBA is going to mold into building around the coach.

Clean @ 7/9/2024 10:19 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

I understand that is what they want but what are they giving up? Teams will no longer have an identity. can't get invested because teams change every year. Teams also get penalized for making right decisions. You found a diamond in the rough and developed him. Guess what he is gone. You drafted well over the years? Well guess what, you can't pay all your draft picks. So some of them are gone or you will have a really bad team to suround them with and no way of improving.

The GSW would have never been able to happen under this new CBA. That was from all drafting well. I am not talking about the KD warrors. That was BS and should have never happened.

I don't agree, I can't say i'm a fan of how strict they made the restrictions, but at the end of the day everyone is in the same boat.

Due to Warriors drafting well. Klay, Barnes & Draymond were on their rookie deals. Which allowed them to trade for David Lee, Bogut, sign Iguodala as a FA, use MLE on Livingston. David Lee played 49 games and averaged under 10mins per game in the playoffs the year they won the chip in 2015. Bogut played 65games at 24mins while being the 2nd highest paid player on the team behind David Lee. David Lee & Bogut combined for $28mil at that time. Steph, Klay, Iggy, Barnes, Draymond, Livingston combined for $36mil. Lee & Bogut's $28mil against the cap contributed a *combined* 28mins, 8pts, 8.5rebs, 1.3blks per game in the finals vs the Cavs.

Drafting well, building a core, and being fiscally responsible with surrounding pieces is basically the only way to survive in this climate. Giving someone like Lavine $40+mil max contracts just so they don't lose him will be what takes the biggest hit. Pelicans before this would have thrown max at Ingram, and now they have to truly evaluate if its worth it. With fall back options like Murphy & Jones(draft picks they hit on) they can instead look to move Ingram for more depth pieces that won't have then hamstrung cap wise. The deeper team with overall talent will be the more competitive one in this new NBA.

NBA is going to mold into building around the coach.

We are talking about 2 different things. You are talking about them rookie contracts. Rookie contracts are obviously cost effective. That is a no brainer. I am talking about once they get off those rookie contracts. The problems comes once those max rookie contracts extentions hit. You are stuck with what you have with no way of improving. You make a mistake with a signing? A player got old? A player got injured? A player leaves in free agency? it does not matter you can not upgrade your roster because those 3 will be taking up almost all if not all of the entire cap.

The GSW being good for all this time would not have been possible. How many times have they switched out the supporting cast around the big 3? Guess what once over the 2nd apron that is not possible so someone will have to go and even then with 2 maxes there will not be much cap left over for the rest of the team. We have not even started talking about supermax contracts. The run the GSW had is not possible in this CBA and I think that is very bad since it was just from drafting well. Excluding the KD stuff.

OKC has 2 years before they start feeling it. After 3 years they are going to be in cap hell. I doubt if iHart gets his 3rd year. In 2 years Chet and Jalen will be up for huge paydays. In 3 Shai is up for an even bigger payday. Say good bye to all your cap with just those 3 players. OKC is not dumb and they been preparing for this but I don't know how they can avoid major issues. Lets see how OKC handles this.

Clean @ 7/9/2024 10:44 AM
EwingsGlass @ 7/9/2024 10:58 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

I am taking a wait and see approach. This is a weird hybrid springing hard cap. It doesn't have a 1 to 1 correlation to the NBA. It seems more punitive than other sports leagues. I think it is difficult to manage a hard cap if you have guaranteed contracts and tight standards on trade matching. The TPE exceptions appears to be a huge loophole but that requires teams to have cap space. Curious which teams will end up with cap space next summer to originate new TPEs. I'd guess that TPEs become the new currency in the NBA and managing TPEs is going to be just as important as managing draft picks.

martin @ 7/9/2024 11:10 AM
Clean wrote:

Is it cause we miss Discount Double Check or Bogey and need a direct representation on the bench?

newyorknewyork @ 7/9/2024 11:43 AM
Clean wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Clean wrote:
Both sides are idiots. I am no expert but once I learned the details you can tell how bad it was.

I believe they want full parity where any org can win it any given year.

I understand that is what they want but what are they giving up? Teams will no longer have an identity. can't get invested because teams change every year. Teams also get penalized for making right decisions. You found a diamond in the rough and developed him. Guess what he is gone. You drafted well over the years? Well guess what, you can't pay all your draft picks. So some of them are gone or you will have a really bad team to suround them with and no way of improving.

The GSW would have never been able to happen under this new CBA. That was from all drafting well. I am not talking about the KD warrors. That was BS and should have never happened.

I don't agree, I can't say i'm a fan of how strict they made the restrictions, but at the end of the day everyone is in the same boat.

Due to Warriors drafting well. Klay, Barnes & Draymond were on their rookie deals. Which allowed them to trade for David Lee, Bogut, sign Iguodala as a FA, use MLE on Livingston. David Lee played 49 games and averaged under 10mins per game in the playoffs the year they won the chip in 2015. Bogut played 65games at 24mins while being the 2nd highest paid player on the team behind David Lee. David Lee & Bogut combined for $28mil at that time. Steph, Klay, Iggy, Barnes, Draymond, Livingston combined for $36mil. Lee & Bogut's $28mil against the cap contributed a *combined* 28mins, 8pts, 8.5rebs, 1.3blks per game in the finals vs the Cavs.

Drafting well, building a core, and being fiscally responsible with surrounding pieces is basically the only way to survive in this climate. Giving someone like Lavine $40+mil max contracts just so they don't lose him will be what takes the biggest hit. Pelicans before this would have thrown max at Ingram, and now they have to truly evaluate if its worth it. With fall back options like Murphy & Jones(draft picks they hit on) they can instead look to move Ingram for more depth pieces that won't have then hamstrung cap wise. The deeper team with overall talent will be the more competitive one in this new NBA.

NBA is going to mold into building around the coach.

We are talking about 2 different things. You are talking about them rookie contracts. Rookie contracts are obviously cost effective. That is a no brainer. I am talking about once they get off those rookie contracts. The problems comes once those max rookie contracts extentions hit. You are stuck with what you have with no way of improving. You make a mistake with a signing? A player got old? A player got injured? A player leaves in free agency? it does not matter you can not upgrade your roster because those 3 will be taking up almost all if not all of the entire cap.

The GSW being good for all this time would not have been possible. How many times have they switched out the supporting cast around the big 3? Guess what once over the 2nd apron that is not possible so someone will have to go and even then with 2 maxes there will not be much cap left over for the rest of the team. We have not even started talking about supermax contracts. The run the GSW had is not possible in this CBA and I think that is very bad since it was just from drafting well. Excluding the KD stuff.

OKC has 2 years before they start feeling it. After 3 years they are going to be in cap hell. I doubt if iHart gets his 3rd year. In 2 years Chet and Jalen will be up for huge paydays. In 3 Shai is up for an even bigger payday. Say good bye to all your cap with just those 3 players. OKC is not dumb and they been preparing for this but I don't know how they can avoid major issues. Lets see how OKC handles this.

Warriors won a chip in 2015 then lost in the finals to the Cavs in 2016. Then they added KD to win back to back chips. There is nothing this new CBA would have done to stop them from winning the chip in 2015.

Steph signed a deal prior to becoming a superstar that had him under his real market value(similar to us with Brunson). The NBA signed a new CBA jacking up the total salary cap. At the same time Bogut & Lee contracts were expiring, and they allowed Barnes to walk to Mavs who offered him max. This gave them the cap space to sign a KD outright and win another 2 chips.

Outside of that. With Lee & Bogut expiring and Barnes also becoming a FA. They would easily be able to retain Klay & Green to go with Steph & Iggy given the team friendly contracts they had. Then when it would be time to re-up Steph. That is when they would have needed to make a decision on Iggy. But in comparison to the rest of the league who also would be going through the same thing. They would still have been a top contending team with their core.

OKC will decide its core. Which will probably be SGA, Williams, Chet. Everyone else will be flexible moving pieces. Right now Caruso & IHart are the glue guy in between. Then as Williams & Chet get pay increases they will become cheaper options. Such as draft picks that they drafted 1 year or 2 prior to prep for these roles.

newyorknewyork @ 7/9/2024 12:01 PM
That said with OKC. They could have done better with the money than $30mil for IHart. Combination of Tobias Harris & Jonas V builds out a better and deeper rotation around Chet in the frontcourt.
BigDaddyG @ 7/9/2024 12:12 PM
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:

Is it cause we miss Discount Double Check or Bogey and need a direct representation on the bench?


Thibs' needs a new whipping boy now that Fournier is gone.
Clean @ 7/9/2024 12:17 PM

This and teams generally going small is good for Randle and his bully ball.
martin @ 7/9/2024 12:34 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:That said with OKC. They could have done better with the money than $30mil for IHart. Combination of Tobias Harris & Jonas V builds out a better and deeper rotation around Chet in the frontcourt.

I have the opposite take.

Tobias Harris & Jonas V have not proven they are winning players or have an impact on their current teams in the way iHart has.

iHart is perfect for them.

Alpha1971 @ 7/9/2024 12:52 PM
Bertans, hey in the last few seconds of the game, and you need a three to tie or win, sub him in. Bertans, OG, Mitchell, Brunson and Divo.
EwingsGlass @ 7/9/2024 12:56 PM
Alpha1971 wrote:Bertans, hey in the last few seconds of the game, and you need a three to tie or win, sub him in. Bertans, OG, Mitchell, Brunson and Divo.

I am very low on Bertans. I don't want him near Dadiet in case whatever D-sease he has is contagious.

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