Knicks · 2024 draft thread/Summer Offseason (page 77)
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:TheMTL wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knixkik wrote:For what it’s worth I do see the Payne signing as a prerequisite to moving Deuce for a center. It’s not set in stone but if the right center becomes available, deuce is the guy who has real value given the contract. Whether it’s Kessler, Richards, Isaiah jackson or someone completely random, deuce would be the asset. I think we are more likely to move him than Achiuwa. Achiuwa will still be needed as a third trustworthy big man. After this summer, the Knicks are probably pretty happy with both Payne and Kolek as backups for Brunson, as well as Rokas in the pipeline. He’s a 4th guard who can play 2 positions off the bench and has contract outs each summer. I think the Knicks bring him in next summer if deuce is moved.I don't think so. More likely Knicks start the season with Robinson Achiuwa and Sims as the 3 centers and Bridges DDV nd McBride as the 3 SG. Payne and Kolek will backup Brunson.
If Robinson goes down, the Knicks won't panic and will give a stretch of games to see if they can make it with the guys on their roster.
Agreed. I think OG, Randle, Precious could easily cover the 4/5 during the season.
As fragile as OG is I don't see him necessarily being healthy if Mitch isn't. But I hope a line up like OG aJulius Bridges Dante and Brunson makes its appearance for stretches
OG is probably going to have a sixth man role this season with Bridges and Randle starting at the forward positions. That will help preserve his health during the regular season
Fresh off a $212mm new contract a player to be relegated to the bench based on the reasons you stated?
Is there an injury he is rehabbing to start the season?
Any thought to using Bridges at the 2?
I could almost see Mikal subbing in for the 2 and 3, Almost, but I don't see it.
I say that because OG might be first to come off the floor. Then Bridges in, and he can slide to the 2 when OG comes back and DDV needs a breather.
Bridges still gets starter minutes.
You said "probably" as your likley scenario? You really think this through?
Obviously the starting lineup is set with Bridges at the 2 and OG at the 3, but hart and DiVincenzo will both play starters minutes off the bench and hopefully they can keep OG in the 28-30 mpg range in the regular season.
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:TheMTL wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knixkik wrote:For what it’s worth I do see the Payne signing as a prerequisite to moving Deuce for a center. It’s not set in stone but if the right center becomes available, deuce is the guy who has real value given the contract. Whether it’s Kessler, Richards, Isaiah jackson or someone completely random, deuce would be the asset. I think we are more likely to move him than Achiuwa. Achiuwa will still be needed as a third trustworthy big man. After this summer, the Knicks are probably pretty happy with both Payne and Kolek as backups for Brunson, as well as Rokas in the pipeline. He’s a 4th guard who can play 2 positions off the bench and has contract outs each summer. I think the Knicks bring him in next summer if deuce is moved.I don't think so. More likely Knicks start the season with Robinson Achiuwa and Sims as the 3 centers and Bridges DDV nd McBride as the 3 SG. Payne and Kolek will backup Brunson.
If Robinson goes down, the Knicks won't panic and will give a stretch of games to see if they can make it with the guys on their roster.
Agreed. I think OG, Randle, Precious could easily cover the 4/5 during the season.
As fragile as OG is I don't see him necessarily being healthy if Mitch isn't. But I hope a line up like OG aJulius Bridges Dante and Brunson makes its appearance for stretches
OG is probably going to have a sixth man role this season with Bridges and Randle starting at the forward positions. That will help preserve his health during the regular season
Fresh off a $212mm new contract a player to be relegated to the bench based on the reasons you stated?
Is there an injury he is rehabbing to start the season?
Any thought to using Bridges at the 2?
I could almost see Mikal subbing in for the 2 and 3, Almost, but I don't see it.
I say that because OG might be first to come off the floor. Then Bridges in, and he can slide to the 2 when OG comes back and DDV needs a breather.
Bridges still gets starter minutes.
You said "probably" as your likley scenario? You really think this through?
Oh, I could totally see that. Of course, then there's Hart...
Ultimately, I think its going to be too many mouths to feed with Bridges, DDV, OG, and Hart. Until, of course, injuries.
It would totally make sense to trade one of them for a center, only it won't happen, because we like them too much.
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:TheMTL wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knixkik wrote:For what it’s worth I do see the Payne signing as a prerequisite to moving Deuce for a center. It’s not set in stone but if the right center becomes available, deuce is the guy who has real value given the contract. Whether it’s Kessler, Richards, Isaiah jackson or someone completely random, deuce would be the asset. I think we are more likely to move him than Achiuwa. Achiuwa will still be needed as a third trustworthy big man. After this summer, the Knicks are probably pretty happy with both Payne and Kolek as backups for Brunson, as well as Rokas in the pipeline. He’s a 4th guard who can play 2 positions off the bench and has contract outs each summer. I think the Knicks bring him in next summer if deuce is moved.I don't think so. More likely Knicks start the season with Robinson Achiuwa and Sims as the 3 centers and Bridges DDV nd McBride as the 3 SG. Payne and Kolek will backup Brunson.
If Robinson goes down, the Knicks won't panic and will give a stretch of games to see if they can make it with the guys on their roster.
Agreed. I think OG, Randle, Precious could easily cover the 4/5 during the season.
As fragile as OG is I don't see him necessarily being healthy if Mitch isn't. But I hope a line up like OG aJulius Bridges Dante and Brunson makes its appearance for stretches
OG is probably going to have a sixth man role this season with Bridges and Randle starting at the forward positions. That will help preserve his health during the regular season
Fresh off a $212mm new contract a player to be relegated to the bench based on the reasons you stated?
Is there an injury he is rehabbing to start the season?
Any thought to using Bridges at the 2?
I could almost see Mikal subbing in for the 2 and 3, Almost, but I don't see it.
I say that because OG might be first to come off the floor. Then Bridges in, and he can slide to the 2 when OG comes back and DDV needs a breather.
Bridges still gets starter minutes.
You said "probably" as your likley scenario? You really think this through?
OG is coming off a nasty hamstring injury and has a significant injury history to include never having played 82 games in a season and 4 out of 9 seasons in the nba he has played 50 games or less to include last season. Guys with big contracts can come off the bench in the nba. Dolan isn’t exactly cheap he has paid big money to guys like Joakim Noah and Jerome James to do nothing
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:TheMTL wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knixkik wrote:For what it’s worth I do see the Payne signing as a prerequisite to moving Deuce for a center. It’s not set in stone but if the right center becomes available, deuce is the guy who has real value given the contract. Whether it’s Kessler, Richards, Isaiah jackson or someone completely random, deuce would be the asset. I think we are more likely to move him than Achiuwa. Achiuwa will still be needed as a third trustworthy big man. After this summer, the Knicks are probably pretty happy with both Payne and Kolek as backups for Brunson, as well as Rokas in the pipeline. He’s a 4th guard who can play 2 positions off the bench and has contract outs each summer. I think the Knicks bring him in next summer if deuce is moved.I don't think so. More likely Knicks start the season with Robinson Achiuwa and Sims as the 3 centers and Bridges DDV nd McBride as the 3 SG. Payne and Kolek will backup Brunson.
If Robinson goes down, the Knicks won't panic and will give a stretch of games to see if they can make it with the guys on their roster.
Agreed. I think OG, Randle, Precious could easily cover the 4/5 during the season.
As fragile as OG is I don't see him necessarily being healthy if Mitch isn't. But I hope a line up like OG aJulius Bridges Dante and Brunson makes its appearance for stretches
OG is probably going to have a sixth man role this season with Bridges and Randle starting at the forward positions. That will help preserve his health during the regular season
Fresh off a $212mm new contract a player to be relegated to the bench based on the reasons you stated?
Is there an injury he is rehabbing to start the season?
Any thought to using Bridges at the 2?
I could almost see Mikal subbing in for the 2 and 3, Almost, but I don't see it.
I say that because OG might be first to come off the floor. Then Bridges in, and he can slide to the 2 when OG comes back and DDV needs a breather.
Bridges still gets starter minutes.
You said "probably" as your likley scenario? You really think this through?OG is coming off a nasty hamstring injury and has a significant injury history to include never having played 82 games in a season and 4 out of 9 seasons in the nba he has played 50 games or less to include last season. Guys with big contracts can come off the bench in the nba. Dolan isn’t exactly cheap he has paid big money to guys like Joakim Noah and Jerome James to do nothing
https://www.basketball-reference.com/con...
"guys with big contracts"
Who has a long term deal remaining and fits your criteria?
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:TheMTL wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knixkik wrote:For what it’s worth I do see the Payne signing as a prerequisite to moving Deuce for a center. It’s not set in stone but if the right center becomes available, deuce is the guy who has real value given the contract. Whether it’s Kessler, Richards, Isaiah jackson or someone completely random, deuce would be the asset. I think we are more likely to move him than Achiuwa. Achiuwa will still be needed as a third trustworthy big man. After this summer, the Knicks are probably pretty happy with both Payne and Kolek as backups for Brunson, as well as Rokas in the pipeline. He’s a 4th guard who can play 2 positions off the bench and has contract outs each summer. I think the Knicks bring him in next summer if deuce is moved.I don't think so. More likely Knicks start the season with Robinson Achiuwa and Sims as the 3 centers and Bridges DDV nd McBride as the 3 SG. Payne and Kolek will backup Brunson.
If Robinson goes down, the Knicks won't panic and will give a stretch of games to see if they can make it with the guys on their roster.
Agreed. I think OG, Randle, Precious could easily cover the 4/5 during the season.
As fragile as OG is I don't see him necessarily being healthy if Mitch isn't. But I hope a line up like OG aJulius Bridges Dante and Brunson makes its appearance for stretches
OG is probably going to have a sixth man role this season with Bridges and Randle starting at the forward positions. That will help preserve his health during the regular season
Fresh off a $212mm new contract a player to be relegated to the bench based on the reasons you stated?
Is there an injury he is rehabbing to start the season?
Any thought to using Bridges at the 2?
I could almost see Mikal subbing in for the 2 and 3, Almost, but I don't see it.
I say that because OG might be first to come off the floor. Then Bridges in, and he can slide to the 2 when OG comes back and DDV needs a breather.
Bridges still gets starter minutes.
You said "probably" as your likley scenario? You really think this through?OG is coming off a nasty hamstring injury and has a significant injury history to include never having played 82 games in a season and 4 out of 9 seasons in the nba he has played 50 games or less to include last season. Guys with big contracts can come off the bench in the nba. Dolan isn’t exactly cheap he has paid big money to guys like Joakim Noah and Jerome James to do nothing
I don't agree with your sixth man position. Mostly because we see clearly how well he affects game outcome. Injury history is a valid concern, but I think his versatility keeps him on the court.
Brunson/Bridges/Anunoby matches Brunson's skills near perfectly.
I'd be much more inclined to say they will use death lineup with DDV immediately off the bench for Brunson/DDV/Bridges/OG/Randle than to figure OG is not starting.
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I been saying from the start he is not a Thibs player. Skaps numbers look good but Ariel is way more of a Thibs player. Thibs has a type and we know if you are not his type he is not going to play you. All Ariel needs is time for Thibs to work his magic and to maybe get in a little better shape.
EwingsGlass wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:TheMTL wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knixkik wrote:For what it’s worth I do see the Payne signing as a prerequisite to moving Deuce for a center. It’s not set in stone but if the right center becomes available, deuce is the guy who has real value given the contract. Whether it’s Kessler, Richards, Isaiah jackson or someone completely random, deuce would be the asset. I think we are more likely to move him than Achiuwa. Achiuwa will still be needed as a third trustworthy big man. After this summer, the Knicks are probably pretty happy with both Payne and Kolek as backups for Brunson, as well as Rokas in the pipeline. He’s a 4th guard who can play 2 positions off the bench and has contract outs each summer. I think the Knicks bring him in next summer if deuce is moved.I don't think so. More likely Knicks start the season with Robinson Achiuwa and Sims as the 3 centers and Bridges DDV nd McBride as the 3 SG. Payne and Kolek will backup Brunson.
If Robinson goes down, the Knicks won't panic and will give a stretch of games to see if they can make it with the guys on their roster.
Agreed. I think OG, Randle, Precious could easily cover the 4/5 during the season.
As fragile as OG is I don't see him necessarily being healthy if Mitch isn't. But I hope a line up like OG aJulius Bridges Dante and Brunson makes its appearance for stretches
OG is probably going to have a sixth man role this season with Bridges and Randle starting at the forward positions. That will help preserve his health during the regular season
Fresh off a $212mm new contract a player to be relegated to the bench based on the reasons you stated?
Is there an injury he is rehabbing to start the season?
Any thought to using Bridges at the 2?
I could almost see Mikal subbing in for the 2 and 3, Almost, but I don't see it.
I say that because OG might be first to come off the floor. Then Bridges in, and he can slide to the 2 when OG comes back and DDV needs a breather.
Bridges still gets starter minutes.
You said "probably" as your likley scenario? You really think this through?OG is coming off a nasty hamstring injury and has a significant injury history to include never having played 82 games in a season and 4 out of 9 seasons in the nba he has played 50 games or less to include last season. Guys with big contracts can come off the bench in the nba. Dolan isn’t exactly cheap he has paid big money to guys like Joakim Noah and Jerome James to do nothing
I don't agree with your sixth man position. Mostly because we see clearly how well he affects game outcome. Injury history is a valid concern, but I think his versatility keeps him on the court.
Brunson/Bridges/Anunoby matches Brunson's skills near perfectly.
I'd be much more inclined to say they will use death lineup with DDV immediately off the bench for Brunson/DDV/Bridges/OG/Randle than to figure OG is not starting.
Me, I still think Bridges would be the perfect 6th man coming in to spell any of the PG/SG/SF positions and let DDV continue to start. Even if I know that's not going to happen.
Panos wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:TheMTL wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Knixkik wrote:For what it’s worth I do see the Payne signing as a prerequisite to moving Deuce for a center. It’s not set in stone but if the right center becomes available, deuce is the guy who has real value given the contract. Whether it’s Kessler, Richards, Isaiah jackson or someone completely random, deuce would be the asset. I think we are more likely to move him than Achiuwa. Achiuwa will still be needed as a third trustworthy big man. After this summer, the Knicks are probably pretty happy with both Payne and Kolek as backups for Brunson, as well as Rokas in the pipeline. He’s a 4th guard who can play 2 positions off the bench and has contract outs each summer. I think the Knicks bring him in next summer if deuce is moved.I don't think so. More likely Knicks start the season with Robinson Achiuwa and Sims as the 3 centers and Bridges DDV nd McBride as the 3 SG. Payne and Kolek will backup Brunson.
If Robinson goes down, the Knicks won't panic and will give a stretch of games to see if they can make it with the guys on their roster.
Agreed. I think OG, Randle, Precious could easily cover the 4/5 during the season.
As fragile as OG is I don't see him necessarily being healthy if Mitch isn't. But I hope a line up like OG aJulius Bridges Dante and Brunson makes its appearance for stretches
OG is probably going to have a sixth man role this season with Bridges and Randle starting at the forward positions. That will help preserve his health during the regular season
Fresh off a $212mm new contract a player to be relegated to the bench based on the reasons you stated?
Is there an injury he is rehabbing to start the season?
Any thought to using Bridges at the 2?
I could almost see Mikal subbing in for the 2 and 3, Almost, but I don't see it.
I say that because OG might be first to come off the floor. Then Bridges in, and he can slide to the 2 when OG comes back and DDV needs a breather.
Bridges still gets starter minutes.
You said "probably" as your likley scenario? You really think this through?OG is coming off a nasty hamstring injury and has a significant injury history to include never having played 82 games in a season and 4 out of 9 seasons in the nba he has played 50 games or less to include last season. Guys with big contracts can come off the bench in the nba. Dolan isn’t exactly cheap he has paid big money to guys like Joakim Noah and Jerome James to do nothing
I don't agree with your sixth man position. Mostly because we see clearly how well he affects game outcome. Injury history is a valid concern, but I think his versatility keeps him on the court.
Brunson/Bridges/Anunoby matches Brunson's skills near perfectly.
I'd be much more inclined to say they will use death lineup with DDV immediately off the bench for Brunson/DDV/Bridges/OG/Randle than to figure OG is not starting.
Me, I still think Bridges would be the perfect 6th man coming in to spell any of the PG/SG/SF positions and let DDV continue to start. Even if I know that's not going to happen.
When matchups allow, I can see Thibs pulling Bridges early on and rotating him back in as sort of a sixth man. I think come playoffs that Bridges defense will dictate that he plays a normal starters role/rotation.
We have such a stacked team. Hope we stay healthy and find a great backup center.
Mitch will need to earn his minutes
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Oh Leeeeon! 
It's time for Zion to play more like he did at Duke. Showing more of an all around game, instead of just bully ball. He set an NBA rookie record for 3pters in his first game as a pro. So much untapped talent.
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a picture is worth a thousand words. Two pictures.......
Alpha1971 wrote:Come preseason what are the odds teams make final moves to waive or cut a back up center the Knicks would pick up ? Or identify for a little trade ?
Good I'd think. Yoot pushes vets out of rotations make for excess.
My gut is not sold Jules is here long term. Something about getting Mikal Bridges throws the roster off a bit. OG moves to the 4.
DDV is the two, If Josh's outside shot is fixed, he backs up 2-3. Kolek shows up Deuce he can back up JB. Duece will still factor in rotation somehow.
There is a path where Jules and Deuce are trade fodder.
Not advocating or predicting.
As for roster tweaks and a vet center available? The odds are good.
Neck looks elongated? That light/shadow looks off. He also looks narrower than usual.
I have no objection to Zion as a knick as long as our FO is reasonably happy with is physical future, but the price would be higher than I'd want to go.
Alpha1971 wrote:Wondering if Dwight Powell might be available. Dallas has Lively and some other bigs that might make Powells role shrink and perhaps his agent will ask for a trade for his player. His contract is moveable and a non rotation player and a second should be enough. He is seemingly better for the team then Simms and Precious unless the scouts and coaches see improvement potential in them.
They outbid us for Gafford too.
I don’t know his game well enough but is he same or just above Randle?
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The good:
Average to above average eFG and TS%. Above average passing. Low-ish turnover rate, but not elite 3:1. Has a chip. Pretty much straight line consistent improvement year in, year out.
The bad: below average defender. above average height 6’4, but average wingspan 6’6. When he was out, 21-22, the nuggets didn’t really see a difference in their performance.
Nobody wants me to recite Randle’s weaknesses, but we will leave that Randle and Murray, like Trae Young end up on the “overrated” lists. I think for Murray at least has a chip, but with middling athleticism, he is a direct recipient of Jokic’s elite court vision. As evidenced by the 21-22 season where in his absence Denver did nearly exactly the same.
EwingsGlass wrote:He’s ahead of Randle. Odd comparing a PG to a PF, not apples to apples.The good:
Average to above average eFG and TS%. Above average passing. Low-ish turnover rate, but not elite 3:1. Has a chip. Pretty much straight line consistent improvement year in, year out.The bad: below average defender. above average height 6’4, but average wingspan 6’6. When he was out, 21-22, the nuggets didn’t really see a difference in their performance.
Nobody wants me to recite Randle’s weaknesses, but we will leave that Randle and Murray, like Trae Young end up on the “overrated” lists. I think for Murray at least has a chip, but with middling athleticism, he is a direct recipient of Jokic’s elite court vision. As evidenced by the 21-22 season where in his absence Denver did nearly exactly the same.
I'd say Murray is maybe a top 50 NBA player, give or take, and Randle is in that range. The real issue is that Murray looked like crap in the playoffs and looked really bad in the Olympics. You mentioned the middling athleticism and the nagging lower body injuries and Id be scared as a Nuggets fan.