Knicks · Around the NBA, 2023 Free Agency: Let the madness begin! (page 15)

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:not sure how many here have been following this guy but he's been tweeting alot of stuff before woj/shams that's turned out to be true (tho he has some misses). he claims he's a former agent with alot of connections.

he was initially this: https://twitter.com/droppingdimes20

then woj actually got him banned so he set up 2 other ones:

https://twitter.com/droppingdimes50 and a backup account: https://twitter.com/droppingdimes55

in terms of knicks and raptors stuff, here's what he has to say:

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it's offseason so i figure it's fun to play along...

Ideally speaking, what do you see as a Siakam return? What is Masai looking for?

And can he play SF?

i really have no idea. siakam is due for a pretty sizeable deal - one that i prefer not to have on the books. in terms of value, he's been on an all nba team 2 of the last 3 years so he's a top 20 nba guy that wants to stay in toronto. dejuante murray is a clear tier below him (and also a UFA) so atlanta would have to throw in more - and i think that's where the hawks are balking considering they already gave up a bunch of picks and swaps for murray already.

masai is not a tear it down and rebuild guy either. he will keep retooling. tampa was a one-off tank considering the circumstances. we wanted fred back but houston came in with a nuts offer. considering we owe a top 6 protected pick to the spurs next draft (which is supposed to be really really weak), there's no incentive to pivot to a one off tank season.

pascal is a pf but can play sf if need be but not full time.

i think one of og or pascal will be moved before the start of the season.

if if if if lillard is cool coming to toronto, then i would move barnes + fillers + picks for him and trot out lillard, trent, og, pascal, poeltl and go for it. but that's just some fantasy sh t.

Also heard he wants to stay in Toronto

EwingsGlass wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Knicks supposedly 1 of 4 team’s interested in Grant Williams - can someone explain what a trade might look like given Celtics don’t have much/any room and Knicks would have to be S/T

Knicks have a TPE obtained in the Obi deal. Value of appr 7.5 million. For a NBA trade to occur the players contract has to be within 1/4 difference of the two players. So we can sign Williams to a 5 to 10 million dollars. Then use the TPE and Boston doesn't take on that salary and can get two second rounders for their trouble with a TPE for future needs. That's what guess is most likely scenario for us. Sign him to a one year guaranteed deal and either a PO or TO for year two or three. I don't think Boston would do a sign and trade using Fournier's contract cause that deal would mean taking Evan back and that counting on their cap. My speculation. If we did what I suggested we would still have Evans deal for a trade at the deadline and Williams to deal as well

Obi Toppin TPE is 6.806mm. To use a TPE in a non-simultaneous trade, you have a $100k buffer to match salary. So, they can accept a $6.906mm salary into that TPE. Every other rule you apply are for simultaneous trades and many have further limitations by virtue of the fact that the Knicks are Hard-Capped at the first Apron.

So, as much as I agree that Grant Williams is a viable option at PF, given our limits on signing him and Boston’s rights to keep him, I think this is relatively unlikely.

Thanks for the education. Not likely, so team will be patient and either shop for Watford or BOl or use Fornier to get a deal. We have Evans contract, a TPE, Deuce, Rokas, picks,to use to acquire a PF. Team is not desperate and will be deliberate and frugal as always

Alpha1971 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Knicks supposedly 1 of 4 team’s interested in Grant Williams - can someone explain what a trade might look like given Celtics don’t have much/any room and Knicks would have to be S/T

Knicks have a TPE obtained in the Obi deal. Value of appr 7.5 million. For a NBA trade to occur the players contract has to be within 1/4 difference of the two players. So we can sign Williams to a 5 to 10 million dollars. Then use the TPE and Boston doesn't take on that salary and can get two second rounders for their trouble with a TPE for future needs. That's what guess is most likely scenario for us. Sign him to a one year guaranteed deal and either a PO or TO for year two or three. I don't think Boston would do a sign and trade using Fournier's contract cause that deal would mean taking Evan back and that counting on their cap. My speculation. If we did what I suggested we would still have Evans deal for a trade at the deadline and Williams to deal as well

Obi Toppin TPE is 6.806mm. To use a TPE in a non-simultaneous trade, you have a $100k buffer to match salary. So, they can accept a $6.906mm salary into that TPE. Every other rule you apply are for simultaneous trades and many have further limitations by virtue of the fact that the Knicks are Hard-Capped at the first Apron.

So, as much as I agree that Grant Williams is a viable option at PF, given our limits on signing him and Boston’s rights to keep him, I think this is relatively unlikely.

Thanks for the education. Not likely, so team will be patient and either shop for Watford or BOl or use Fornier to get a deal. We have Evans contract, a TPE, Deuce, Rokas, picks,to use to acquire a PF. Team is not desperate and will be deliberate and frugal as always

I read a post saying the Knicks were involved, so perhaps they have something up their sleeve. It sounds like Boston matches up to 12.4mm. I don’t see a scenario where we get over 12.4mm at this point. But that puts them in the SuperApron with penalties and whatnot. Meaning, I don’t think they match 12.4mm or take back salary.

martin wrote:Williams is a RFA. The Knicks have zero cap space. There is ZERO offer they can make to Boston.

Don’t over the cap teams make sign and trade deals all the time - rather than using cap space?

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Williams is a RFA. The Knicks have zero cap space. There is ZERO offer they can make to Boston.

Don’t over the cap teams make sign and trade deals all the time - rather than using cap space?

Yeah I guess I should have qualified by saying this is not a practical thing.

Knicks are hard capped. They have an $6.8M TPE which is less than the Williams qualifying offer of $8.4M. After that we are to believe that Williams will want to force his way to NY to play behind Randle in the Obi role? These are not practical things that will ever happen.

The Knicks have one salary slot to move and that is Fournier. And in what world is Boston taking back Fournier and his $19M?

It's all silly talk.

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Williams is a RFA. The Knicks have zero cap space. There is ZERO offer they can make to Boston.

Don’t over the cap teams make sign and trade deals all the time - rather than using cap space?

Yeah I guess I should have qualified by saying this is not a practical thing.

Knicks are hard capped. They have an $6.8M TPE which is less than the Williams qualifying offer of $8.4M. After that we are to believe that Williams will want to force his way to NY to play behind Randle in the Obi role? These are not practical things that will ever happen.

The Knicks have one salary slot to move and that is Fournier. And in what world is Boston taking back Fournier and his $19M?

It's all silly talk.

Is a 3-team trade possible with Williams or would a S/T have to be direct between 2 teams?

I was thinking maybe a Fournier + maybe Simms and/or picks could go to a 3rd team (Spurs?) with Celtics compensated in some fashion (McDermott/2nds)where ultimately Knicks/Celtics happy with return and $ fit under specific aprons.

I do get Celtics not wanting to help Knicks but they could be limited and may want to do right be Williams like Knicks with Obi -

LivingLegend wrote:Well - going to keep my hopes up because in my eyes Williams is exactly the type of player Thibs would give 20 minutes to and Williams is a J-Hart type do-it-all pest. We could play some small with Williams because he can defend some centers with his strength & quickness.

Is a 3-team trade possible with Williams or would a S/T have to be direct between 2 teams?

I was thinking maybe a Fournier + maybe Simms and/or picks could go to a 3rd team (Spurs?) with Celtics compensated in some fashion (McDermott/2nds)where ultimately Knicks/Celtics happy with return and $ fit under specific aprons.

I do get Celtics not wanting to help Knicks but they could be limited and may want to do right be Williams like Knicks with Obi -

These things are technically possible. With S&T's, they become too complex for my brain as it involves Base Year Compensation rules and then restrictions on trading that player again. That second part would obviously hamstring the Knicks from making another larger deal for the Fournier contract slot.

“…the Knicks may have another move up their sleeve. The world chatters about their quest for a star. But there are other tweaks they could make…League sources told The Athletic that New York has contacted multiple rival front offices this offseason with a similar objective. The Knicks have built packages around their promising young players to target prime-aged veterans they believe would help the current roster…”

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The New York Knicks’ roster does not look finished. And it’s not because they no longer employ a conventional backup power forward. This isn’t 1998. There are no bangers who will mutilate them just because Josh Hart or RJ Barrett is at the four instead of the slightly taller Obi Toppin, who was there last season.

martin wrote:I do like this opening take in the above article:

The New York Knicks’ roster does not look finished. And it’s not because they no longer employ a conventional backup power forward. This isn’t 1998. There are no bangers who will mutilate them just because Josh Hart or RJ Barrett is at the four instead of the slightly taller Obi Toppin, who was there last season.

That and backup PF is the lowest role in the rotation. It's a 12-15 mpg backing up an All-Star/All-NBA player. It's not that serious.

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I do like this opening take in the above article:

The New York Knicks’ roster does not look finished. And it’s not because they no longer employ a conventional backup power forward. This isn’t 1998. There are no bangers who will mutilate them just because Josh Hart or RJ Barrett is at the four instead of the slightly taller Obi Toppin, who was there last season.

That and backup PF is the lowest role in the rotation. It's a 12-15 mpg backing up an All-Star/All-NBA player. It's not that serious.

Picks and either IQ/Grimes (or dare I say both) for OG, move barrett to the 2, Annuby is a thick kid that can handle the 4.
RJ might be 6-7 now and he too will get bigger.
Im spitballing the current scene. I have no idea how any of this shakes out. The rotation is crowded in the back court. Something will happen.

Nalod wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I do like this opening take in the above article:

The New York Knicks’ roster does not look finished. And it’s not because they no longer employ a conventional backup power forward. This isn’t 1998. There are no bangers who will mutilate them just because Josh Hart or RJ Barrett is at the four instead of the slightly taller Obi Toppin, who was there last season.

That and backup PF is the lowest role in the rotation. It's a 12-15 mpg backing up an All-Star/All-NBA player. It's not that serious.

Picks and either IQ/Grimes (or dare I say both) for OG, move barrett to the 2, Annuby is a thick kid that can handle the 4.
RJ might be 6-7 now and he too will get bigger.
Im spitballing the current scene. I have no idea how any of this shakes out. The rotation is crowded in the back court. Something will happen.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I do like this opening take in the above article:

The New York Knicks’ roster does not look finished. And it’s not because they no longer employ a conventional backup power forward. This isn’t 1998. There are no bangers who will mutilate them just because Josh Hart or RJ Barrett is at the four instead of the slightly taller Obi Toppin, who was there last season.

That and backup PF is the lowest role in the rotation. It's a 12-15 mpg backing up an All-Star/All-NBA player. It's not that serious.

Picks and either IQ/Grimes (or dare I say both) for OG, move barrett to the 2, Annuby is a thick kid that can handle the 4.
RJ might be 6-7 now and he too will get bigger.
Im spitballing the current scene. I have no idea how any of this shakes out. The rotation is crowded in the back court. Something will happen.

I think putting RJ at the 2 and bringing in OG for IQ/Grimes just traded one defensive imbalance for another. I agree, RJ will fill out his frame even more. But he was barely capable of guarding opposing two guards at his lightest. I think it would make sense for the Knicks l if RJ was moved in an OG trade.

You maybe correct but after 4 years of rooting for RJ I am biased/hopeful. At the same time, I am just not sold on OG entirely. No offense, but not sold that RJ is a bad defender either. OG is very good and better than RJ here. That I get. I don't know what OG is going to ask for his next contract but its my contention that if OG is that good, or better than RJ why would Toronto do this deal? Maple MambaMaddness? RJ's contract is likely not unreasonable given the current inflation of the new CBA but we just don't know what Ujiri wants in return or the direction they are going in.

I know a contingent of Knick fans don't love RJ and want change. Media wants clicks and rides that CAA train as far as it goes.

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I do like this opening take in the above article:

The New York Knicks’ roster does not look finished. And it’s not because they no longer employ a conventional backup power forward. This isn’t 1998. There are no bangers who will mutilate them just because Josh Hart or RJ Barrett is at the four instead of the slightly taller Obi Toppin, who was there last season.

That and backup PF is the lowest role in the rotation. It's a 12-15 mpg backing up an All-Star/All-NBA player. It's not that serious.

Picks and either IQ/Grimes (or dare I say both) for OG, move barrett to the 2, Annuby is a thick kid that can handle the 4.
RJ might be 6-7 now and he too will get bigger.
Im spitballing the current scene. I have no idea how any of this shakes out. The rotation is crowded in the back court. Something will happen.

I think putting RJ at the 2 and bringing in OG for IQ/Grimes just traded one defensive imbalance for another. I agree, RJ will fill out his frame even more. But he was barely capable of guarding opposing two guards at his lightest. I think it would make sense for the Knicks l if RJ was moved in an OG trade.

You maybe correct but after 4 years of rooting for RJ I am biased/hopeful. At the same time, I am just not sold on OG entirely. No offense, but not sold that RJ is a bad defender either. OG is very good and better than RJ here. That I get. I don't know what OG is going to ask for his next contract but its my contention that if OG is that good, or better than RJ why would Toronto do this deal? Maple MambaMaddness?

I know a contingent of Knick fans don't love RJ and want change. Media wants clicks and rides that CAA train as far as it goes.

I wouldn't say RJ is bad defensively, but erratic. But his biggest weakness, lateral quickness, gets highlighted against most guards. Also, I think people might have unrealistic xpectations for what OG can do offensively. He is not a creator. That would be cool, except part of the reason he wants to move is that he wants more offensive responsibility. He makes Dubious Handles look White Chocolate with some of his dribble drives.

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BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I do like this opening take in the above article:

The New York Knicks’ roster does not look finished. And it’s not because they no longer employ a conventional backup power forward. This isn’t 1998. There are no bangers who will mutilate them just because Josh Hart or RJ Barrett is at the four instead of the slightly taller Obi Toppin, who was there last season.

That and backup PF is the lowest role in the rotation. It's a 12-15 mpg backing up an All-Star/All-NBA player. It's not that serious.

Picks and either IQ/Grimes (or dare I say both) for OG, move barrett to the 2, Annuby is a thick kid that can handle the 4.
RJ might be 6-7 now and he too will get bigger.
Im spitballing the current scene. I have no idea how any of this shakes out. The rotation is crowded in the back court. Something will happen.

I think putting RJ at the 2 and bringing in OG for IQ/Grimes just traded one defensive imbalance for another. I agree, RJ will fill out his frame even more. But he was barely capable of guarding opposing two guards at his lightest. I think it would make sense for the Knicks l if RJ was moved in an OG trade.

You maybe correct but after 4 years of rooting for RJ I am biased/hopeful. At the same time, I am just not sold on OG entirely. No offense, but not sold that RJ is a bad defender either. OG is very good and better than RJ here. That I get. I don't know what OG is going to ask for his next contract but its my contention that if OG is that good, or better than RJ why would Toronto do this deal? Maple MambaMaddness?

I know a contingent of Knick fans don't love RJ and want change. Media wants clicks and rides that CAA train as far as it goes.

I wouldn't say RJ is bad defensively, but erratic. But his biggest weakness, lateral quickness, gets highlighted against most guards. Also, I think people might have unrealistic xpectations for what OG can do offensively. He is not a creator. That would be cool, except part of the reason he wants to move is that he wants more offensive responsibility. He makes Dubious Handles look White Chocolate with some of his dribble drives.

So OG want to create more, that increases turnovers. No doubt he is a better spot shooter, but playmaking?
INcrease offense often comes with decreased defensive rating.
OG is very good, and I often are weary of guys that want more. That to get paid?
As said, they have a new coach and perhaps they plan on running more with him.
I can't do a deal until I have an extension worked out. I mean we talking about Thibs right?
OG want to play for him? Isn't half the league NOT in that camp? LOL.
LIke I said, I like the kid and perhaps like to see both him and RJ on the floor.

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