Knicks · Around the NBA, 2023 Free Agency: Let the madness begin! (page 37)

EwingPSD @ 9/18/2023 10:51 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
Clean wrote:

People thought we were done with the big moves but Leon pulled out the trump card.

That's funny Clean.

Also think a guy like Ryan A is just another add to what should be a very SOLID locker room. It has to be a good feeling for a coach like Thibs knowing you have a group of 4 Brunson/Hart/DD/Archie who will work to keep the room positive and that you also have guys like RJ/Grimes/Quick/IHart who all seem like good cats. I'd like to add Jules in here but he seems to go off the rails too often despite having a good relationship with Thibs.


I have no issues with Ryan. All 4 Nova guys seem professional. Brunson has always seemed intense and unflappable and he clearly runs things now so long as it doesn't go to his head they have strong leadership.

joec32033 @ 9/18/2023 11:39 PM
Clean wrote:

Confused. Everyone says his 3 point shooting is inconsistent, so now he gets grief because he took the fewest PULL UP 3Pters?

W. T. F.

BigDaddyG @ 9/19/2023 4:12 PM
joec32033 wrote:
Clean wrote:

Confused. Everyone says his 3 point shooting is inconsistent, so now he gets grief because he took the fewest PULL UP 3Pters?

W. T. F.

He didn't take the fewest, but had the worse shooting percentage. I think he should scrap that part of his game in the foreseeable future, but he did show some bright spots in FIBA.

Clean @ 9/19/2023 9:56 PM
joec32033 wrote:
Clean wrote:

Confused. Everyone says his 3 point shooting is inconsistent, so now he gets grief because he took the fewest PULL UP 3Pters?

W. T. F.

Sry, I forgot I even posted this. The stat is for the lowest shooting percentage. So out of all the people who are 23 years of age and under he shot the absolute worst at pull up jumpers.

joec32033 @ 9/20/2023 1:19 AM
Clean wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
Clean wrote:

Confused. Everyone says his 3 point shooting is inconsistent, so now he gets grief because he took the fewest PULL UP 3Pters?

W. T. F.

Sry, I forgot I even posted this. The stat is for the lowest shooting percentage. So out of all the people who are 23 years of age and under he shot the absolute worst at pull up jumpers.

Ah. My mistake. I saw the attempts listed and interpreted it was pull up percentage of pull up 3 pointers in regards to total shots. He still took the fewest on that list, and there should have been a qualifier for quantity taken. I mean Griffin is 1 with 60 total attempts while Hali is 2 with over 300.

Nalod @ 9/20/2023 8:04 AM
Love custom lists.
If RJ is coming down the court he is not a good pull up three player. He goes to the rim.
Do we have a list where he excels at this?

As for the list, did RJ Attempt then evenly continue thru the season? Was there a time where he was doing them and they were effective for a stretch? He went thru a really bad stretch beyond the arch for a few weeks. Really killed his in season stats.

Lists like this tell me little. those in the top 8 are guards.
Also, what does players 8-56 look like?

Are these pull up's in games early in the season or late? Was Thibs telling him to shoot to increase pace?
Pull up if there are guys to rebound? AKA: What game situations does he attempt this? Did it get reduced as season went along? Or was this part of a later season attempt to get him going? RJ in that bad stretch looked lost from 3pt land. They told him to keep at it and he finished strong.

Context matters not just for RJ, but all the guys on the list doing well at it or not. If his man is backing way up knowing RJ is likely going to the rim, and he is giving him the open pull up he is going to let it fly. If a player is not a strong penetrator they will cover him as such.

Yes, RJ needs to tighten up his 3pt%. one does this by improving shot selection, knowing were you good at on the floor, etc etc.........

Panos @ 9/20/2023 10:25 AM
Nalod wrote:Love custom lists.
If RJ is coming down the court he is not a good pull up three player. He goes to the rim.
Do we have a list where he excels at this?

As for the list, did RJ Attempt then evenly continue thru the season? Was there a time where he was doing them and they were effective for a stretch? He went thru a really bad stretch beyond the arch for a few weeks. Really killed his in season stats.

Lists like this tell me little. those in the top 8 are guards.
Also, what does players 8-56 look like?

Are these pull up's in games early in the season or late? Was Thibs telling him to shoot to increase pace?
Pull up if there are guys to rebound? AKA: What game situations does he attempt this? Did it get reduced as season went along? Or was this part of a later season attempt to get him going? RJ in that bad stretch looked lost from 3pt land. They told him to keep at it and he finished strong.

Context matters not just for RJ, but all the guys on the list doing well at it or not. If his man is backing way up knowing RJ is likely going to the rim, and he is giving him the open pull up he is going to let it fly. If a player is not a strong penetrator they will cover him as such.

Yes, RJ needs to tighten up his 3pt%. one does this by improving shot selection, knowing were you good at on the floor, etc etc.........

Let's be honest, you don't need a list like this to tell you how bad a shooter RJ was. It just confirms what we all saw and which some people complained about and others were in denial about. You can't have it both ways, Nalod, rejecting BOTH the eye test AND the stats.

BigDaddyG @ 9/20/2023 10:59 AM
Panos wrote:
Nalod wrote:Love custom lists.
If RJ is coming down the court he is not a good pull up three player. He goes to the rim.
Do we have a list where he excels at this?

As for the list, did RJ Attempt then evenly continue thru the season? Was there a time where he was doing them and they were effective for a stretch? He went thru a really bad stretch beyond the arch for a few weeks. Really killed his in season stats.

Lists like this tell me little. those in the top 8 are guards.
Also, what does players 8-56 look like?

Are these pull up's in games early in the season or late? Was Thibs telling him to shoot to increase pace?
Pull up if there are guys to rebound? AKA: What game situations does he attempt this? Did it get reduced as season went along? Or was this part of a later season attempt to get him going? RJ in that bad stretch looked lost from 3pt land. They told him to keep at it and he finished strong.

Context matters not just for RJ, but all the guys on the list doing well at it or not. If his man is backing way up knowing RJ is likely going to the rim, and he is giving him the open pull up he is going to let it fly. If a player is not a strong penetrator they will cover him as such.

Yes, RJ needs to tighten up his 3pt%. one does this by improving shot selection, knowing were you good at on the floor, etc etc.........

Let's be honest, you don't need a list like this to tell you how bad a shooter RJ was. It just confirms what we all saw and which some people complained about and others were in denial about. You can't have it both ways, Nalod, rejecting BOTH the eye test AND the stats.

Yeah, 20% is 20% regardless of the context. Saying that he shot a bad percentage on pull up 3s is an understatement. That percentage is an abomination. I will say that RJ pretty much stopped experimenting with that shot as the season went on. But then he stopped hitting spot up 3s too.

Nalod @ 9/20/2023 12:06 PM
Panos wrote:
Nalod wrote:Love custom lists.
If RJ is coming down the court he is not a good pull up three player. He goes to the rim.
Do we have a list where he excels at this?

As for the list, did RJ Attempt then evenly continue thru the season? Was there a time where he was doing them and they were effective for a stretch? He went thru a really bad stretch beyond the arch for a few weeks. Really killed his in season stats.

Lists like this tell me little. those in the top 8 are guards.
Also, what does players 8-56 look like?

Are these pull up's in games early in the season or late? Was Thibs telling him to shoot to increase pace?
Pull up if there are guys to rebound? AKA: What game situations does he attempt this? Did it get reduced as season went along? Or was this part of a later season attempt to get him going? RJ in that bad stretch looked lost from 3pt land. They told him to keep at it and he finished strong.

Context matters not just for RJ, but all the guys on the list doing well at it or not. If his man is backing way up knowing RJ is likely going to the rim, and he is giving him the open pull up he is going to let it fly. If a player is not a strong penetrator they will cover him as such.

Yes, RJ needs to tighten up his 3pt%. one does this by improving shot selection, knowing were you good at on the floor, etc etc.........

Let's be honest, you don't need a list like this to tell you how bad a shooter RJ was. It just confirms what we all saw and which some people complained about and others were in denial about. You can't have it both ways, Nalod, rejecting BOTH the eye test AND the stats.

I want it both ways? Im saying the list does not tell me enough to walk away with anything tangible.
Stats are misleading. Eye test? Yes, it was ugly. Im not saying otherwise.
My point is fans indict players on itty bitty pieces than the full picture then pretend then know more than the coach(s) in hindsight.
Im asking for more information.
47 wins with RJ struggling for a large piece of the season tells me he was uneven and Thibs did take him out at times. I never said it was wrong.
And when I admit to my fanboy status I am not asking to have it both ways, I am tell you I am not 100% objective.

EwingsGlass @ 9/20/2023 1:47 PM
Panos wrote:
Nalod wrote:Love custom lists.
If RJ is coming down the court he is not a good pull up three player. He goes to the rim.
Do we have a list where he excels at this?

As for the list, did RJ Attempt then evenly continue thru the season? Was there a time where he was doing them and they were effective for a stretch? He went thru a really bad stretch beyond the arch for a few weeks. Really killed his in season stats.

Lists like this tell me little. those in the top 8 are guards.
Also, what does players 8-56 look like?

Are these pull up's in games early in the season or late? Was Thibs telling him to shoot to increase pace?
Pull up if there are guys to rebound? AKA: What game situations does he attempt this? Did it get reduced as season went along? Or was this part of a later season attempt to get him going? RJ in that bad stretch looked lost from 3pt land. They told him to keep at it and he finished strong.

Context matters not just for RJ, but all the guys on the list doing well at it or not. If his man is backing way up knowing RJ is likely going to the rim, and he is giving him the open pull up he is going to let it fly. If a player is not a strong penetrator they will cover him as such.

Yes, RJ needs to tighten up his 3pt%. one does this by improving shot selection, knowing were you good at on the floor, etc etc.........

Let's be honest, you don't need a list like this to tell you how bad a shooter RJ was. It just confirms what we all saw and which some people complained about and others were in denial about. You can't have it both ways, Nalod, rejecting BOTH the eye test AND the stats.

Lol. I like the way you put that.

Nalod. Here is a picture. The places where he is better than average at shooting are in dark blue. Except there aren't any.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/rj-barr...

We can use the only 23 still. He could have a Wiggins trajectory like his country-mate. But he is not an efficient shooter. I think an efficiency coach like Kerr could do the same for him that he did for Wiggins (or maybe surrounding him with two HOF caliber 3 point shooters). But the past stats and eye test don't have him as a good shooter.

EwingsGlass @ 9/20/2023 1:50 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
Panos wrote:
Nalod wrote:Love custom lists.
If RJ is coming down the court he is not a good pull up three player. He goes to the rim.
Do we have a list where he excels at this?

As for the list, did RJ Attempt then evenly continue thru the season? Was there a time where he was doing them and they were effective for a stretch? He went thru a really bad stretch beyond the arch for a few weeks. Really killed his in season stats.

Lists like this tell me little. those in the top 8 are guards.
Also, what does players 8-56 look like?

Are these pull up's in games early in the season or late? Was Thibs telling him to shoot to increase pace?
Pull up if there are guys to rebound? AKA: What game situations does he attempt this? Did it get reduced as season went along? Or was this part of a later season attempt to get him going? RJ in that bad stretch looked lost from 3pt land. They told him to keep at it and he finished strong.

Context matters not just for RJ, but all the guys on the list doing well at it or not. If his man is backing way up knowing RJ is likely going to the rim, and he is giving him the open pull up he is going to let it fly. If a player is not a strong penetrator they will cover him as such.

Yes, RJ needs to tighten up his 3pt%. one does this by improving shot selection, knowing were you good at on the floor, etc etc.........

Let's be honest, you don't need a list like this to tell you how bad a shooter RJ was. It just confirms what we all saw and which some people complained about and others were in denial about. You can't have it both ways, Nalod, rejecting BOTH the eye test AND the stats.

Lol. I like the way you put that.

Nalod. Here is a picture. The places where he is better than average at shooting are in dark blue. Except there aren't any.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/rj-barr...

We can use the only 23 still. He could have a Wiggins trajectory like his country-mate. But he is not an efficient shooter. I think an efficiency coach like Kerr could do the same for him that he did for Wiggins (or maybe surrounding him with two HOF caliber 3 point shooters). But the past stats and eye test don't have him as a good shooter.

Oops, right hand side. 14/32 at 43% is better than average for the league.

Nalod @ 9/20/2023 2:19 PM
OK, all good stuff.
My point:

Nov 30.3%
Dec 42%
Jan 36.5%
Feb 28.3%
March 26.7

Clev series 25% Had on really bad game!!
Miami 37%

So what happpend in Feb and March and how he got it back.
How did opponents defend him, what changed, and how he get it back.
This is stuff we don't know. This applies to all players so its not unique. What is it about his inconsistency? Is inconsistency generic to all players and circumstances? Of course not.
The eye test for Feb and march was bloody awful!!! It was hard to watch. At his age is it fixable? At 25-26, less so.
If RJ is to be "StarJay" perhaps this is the year he emerges. Really, I don't have such lofty expectations. Im good with him as the 3rd best player and be there when the team needs him to carry in stretch's. Im not arguing he needs to tighten up his long game. Its how he does it. What the defense gives him. I think they give him the pull ups if there is a transition play. If he gets better at it, they won't and he has an easier path the rim.

fishmike @ 9/20/2023 4:47 PM
looking deeply at any of RJ's #s is going to be painful. He's literally our most inefficient player. You just have to brush this off and assume maturity will bring better shot selection or maybe he's a guy who starts losing shots to other guys.

Its not the 20% that's brutal... its he took 50+

Dude's hitting at a 1-5 clip and just keep chucking. Ouch

Clean @ 9/21/2023 11:57 PM
I fully expect the Heat to get Dame. It is thw way this always goes. The Heat and Lakers always get their targets and only we have a random team come out of nowhere the last second to trade for the person we was going to trade for.
fishmike @ 9/22/2023 3:36 PM
Clean wrote:I fully expect the Heat to get Dame. It is thw way this always goes. The Heat and Lakers always get their targets and only we have a random team come out of nowhere the last second to trade for the person we was going to trade for.
its going to be a real test of rosters... top end vs. depth. We are certainly in the depth crowd. What I like about the Knicks is we have at least one top end closer. There's big pressure for Brunson to repeat what he did last year and I think the Knicks FO are clearly committed to setting him up for success

Would you want Liliard at that age and money? I am really curious to see what that deal looks like.

KnickDanger @ 9/22/2023 3:53 PM
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:I fully expect the Heat to get Dame. It is thw way this always goes. The Heat and Lakers always get their targets and only we have a random team come out of nowhere the last second to trade for the person we was going to trade for.
its going to be a real test of rosters... top end vs. depth. We are certainly in the depth crowd. What I like about the Knicks is we have at least one top end closer. There's big pressure for Brunson to repeat what he did last year and I think the Knicks FO are clearly committed to setting him up for success

Would you want Liliard at that age and money? I am really curious to see what that deal looks like.


All for Dame going to the Heat and not the Knicks. Stay the course.
Philc1 @ 9/23/2023 6:46 AM
Didn’t take long for this to become another Bash RJ thread
Philc1 @ 9/23/2023 6:47 AM
KnickDanger wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Clean wrote:I fully expect the Heat to get Dame. It is thw way this always goes. The Heat and Lakers always get their targets and only we have a random team come out of nowhere the last second to trade for the person we was going to trade for.
its going to be a real test of rosters... top end vs. depth. We are certainly in the depth crowd. What I like about the Knicks is we have at least one top end closer. There's big pressure for Brunson to repeat what he did last year and I think the Knicks FO are clearly committed to setting him up for success

Would you want Liliard at that age and money? I am really curious to see what that deal looks like.


All for Dame going to the Heat and not the Knicks. Stay the course.

Pass on Dame he’s getting old and is a turnstile on D

Clean @ 9/25/2023 2:42 PM

Took them long enough. I seen nothing in him from the start.
EwingsGlass @ 9/25/2023 2:46 PM
Clean wrote:
Took them long enough. I seen nothing in him from the start.

Its pretty hard to come in last in the lateral agility tests. I figure the front office thought they saw something they could fix, but the flyers I want to take are guys placing high in the combine athleticism categories and give the coaches a chance to develop the skills.

BigDaddyG @ 9/26/2023 12:54 PM
Clean wrote:
Took them long enough. I seen nothing in him from the start.

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