newyorknewyork wrote:KnickDanger wrote:I wanted Halliburton on draft night. But…if we take Hali do we now have Brunson? I’d rather have Brunson.Overreactions and declarations of complete failure are expected. Personally I think it’s okay not to like it but uncool to freak. Especially when there’s more to come. And let’s see if Obi shows Thibs to have been a fool - you know like Cam did.
Hali could line up at SG like he did playing next to Fox. He's shot 40% from three his whole career at 6'5. He can play off ball. And so could Brunson who played next to Luka and shoots about 40% from 3 himself.
Rose has had some missteps. Netting Brunson puts him in the green overall.
What I am saying is drafting Halliburton - which again is what I wanted and would be a highly better pick than Obi and yes was a misstep by our Rose led FO - would most likely have resulted in us not signing Brunson. Or maybe if he had a bagel instead of eggs for breakfast really who knows? But I seriously doubt those two things would have both occurred.
So can the trade now be seen as Obi for DDV and two second rounders?
KnickDanger wrote:So can the trade now be seen as Obi for DDV and two second rounders?
Of course. Don’t knicks fans know thats how we got DDV?
Obi was either due an extension or we had to take back salary.
Yes, Haliburton was the better pick. Yet, here we are after a very good season.
WE needed to not take back salary to sign DDV.
Do we really think FO did not think this thru?
Obi was a fan favorite. Changes are inevitable.
LivingLegend wrote:Martin - any chance the Obi/Duarte trades could be combined or is that idea gone now?
Duarte already traded to Sac Kings
Plus, super redundancy?
Welcome to the new era of Knicks were we don’t trade picks out and thus have yoot. Not all develop regardless of blame.
Other teams let players walk. We will too. Its not inept, it a sign of progress.
Nalod wrote:Welcome to the new era of Knicks were we don’t trade picks out and thus have yoot. Not all develop regardless of blame.
Other teams let players walk. We will too. Its not inept, it a sign of progress.
A lot of fans are locked into prisoner of the moment syndrome - they only see the one thing emotionally and are oblivious to other moving parts. Despite some “missteps” our current FO is playing chess not checkers. Big picture is taken into account and not simply “We love Obi and hate Randle and two seconds sucks” (which does for another fumbled lottery pick). BTW how many here would have “dumped Randle” a year ago for two seconds?
I also am wondering if giving Obi a good landing spot and the blurb that they want to do the same for “good soldier” Fournier is a big picture thing as well. The kind of thing a former agent might consider and would put the Knicks in an improved light.
KnickDanger wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:KnickDanger wrote:I wanted Halliburton on draft night. But…if we take Hali do we now have Brunson? I’d rather have Brunson.Overreactions and declarations of complete failure are expected. Personally I think it’s okay not to like it but uncool to freak. Especially when there’s more to come. And let’s see if Obi shows Thibs to have been a fool - you know like Cam did.
Hali could line up at SG like he did playing next to Fox. He's shot 40% from three his whole career at 6'5. He can play off ball. And so could Brunson who played next to Luka and shoots about 40% from 3 himself.
Rose has had some missteps. Netting Brunson puts him in the green overall.
What I am saying is drafting Halliburton - which again is what I wanted and would be a highly better pick than Obi and yes was a misstep by our Rose led FO - would most likely have resulted in us not signing Brunson. Or maybe if he had a bagel instead of eggs for breakfast really who knows? But I seriously doubt those two things would have both occurred.
They still wanted Dejonte Murray after signing Brunson and tried to trade for Spida. Brunson had to many connections to the Knicks for him to not still be in play with Hali in the fold. If he was a 6'2 ball dominant G then word. But his/their games would have allowed it all the be in play.
Nalod wrote:Welcome to the new era of Knicks were we don’t trade picks out and thus have yoot. Not all develop regardless of blame.
Other teams let players walk. We will too. Its not inept, it a sign of progress.
Obi was just not what Knicks thought he would be. Not what I thought he would be. Thought he would be a high energy, physical, Kenyan Martin type player. He had a chance to earn more minutes but his soft play, lack of defense and rebounding kept him from doing so. The dreamers can say what they want but this is another Frank, Reddish reality. We need guys that contribute in more than one category. Breakaway dunks is not enough
Challenge fans to tell me what OB did really well? As well as why the league only offered two second rounders?
Hope he proves me wrong. He is a good kid
Knicks never went small ball with Obi but now without Obi the Knicks will go with iHart and 4 guards in a crazy good lineup of switching and moving and shooting and iHart directing traffic and dropping dimes from the top of the key or above and it's going to be glorious.
Nalod wrote:KnickDanger wrote:So can the trade now be seen as Obi for DDV and two second rounders?
Of course. Don’t knicks fans know thats how we got DDV?
Obi was either due an extension or we had to take back salary.
Yes, Haliburton was the better pick. Yet, here we are after a very good season.
WE needed to not take back salary to sign DDV.
Do we really think FO did not think this thru?
Obi was a fan favorite. Changes are inevitable.
I don't think this is true. Obi was eligible for an extension this summer. Next summer he would be eligible for RFA if the Knicks extended a one year qualifying offer. With Josh Hart opting into his PO, Knicks had enough under tax space to use the full mle to sign DDV. Knicks could have had their Obi and ate DDV too.
If the Knicks want to use their Biannual exemption it will likely push them into the tax territory, depending on if they cut guys like Jeffries, Roby, and Sims. Of course being just a little in the tax is stupid because it opens you up to future repeater penalties.
I think jmpasq is right, this was basically doing Obi a solid to get him to a team where he can score a lot but his defensive limitations don't particularly stand out.
I'm with Martin on the Obi hype Machine> Obi the player, despite him shining in some meaningless games.
I think not holding on to Obi and the aggregate contract value he and Evan can provide is indicative of Knicks not trading for a 30 million guy this summer. Just from a trade stand point, Obi was almost an expiring contract and any team would be happy to get a look at him. Problem is Indy can almost guarantee playing time and help him get a nice new deal.
An example road not taken deal; Fournier and Obi for Jerami Grant. Grant's contract looks pretty bad given the Lillard trade request but a lineup of:
Robinson/ Hartenstein
Randle
Grant/ Hart
Barrett/ DDV
Brunson/ IQ
I think has serious contention potential.
gradyandrew wrote:Nalod wrote:KnickDanger wrote:So can the trade now be seen as Obi for DDV and two second rounders?
Of course. Don’t knicks fans know thats how we got DDV?
Obi was either due an extension or we had to take back salary.
Yes, Haliburton was the better pick. Yet, here we are after a very good season.
WE needed to not take back salary to sign DDV.
Do we really think FO did not think this thru?
Obi was a fan favorite. Changes are inevitable.
I don't think this is true. Obi was eligible for an extension this summer. Next summer he would be eligible for RFA if the Knicks extended a one year qualifying offer. With Josh Hart opting into his PO, Knicks had enough under tax space to use the full mle to sign DDV. Knicks could have had their Obi and ate DDV too.
If the Knicks want to use their Biannual exemption it will likely push them into the tax territory, depending on if they cut guys like Jeffries, Roby, and Sims. Of course being just a little in the tax is stupid because it opens you up to future repeater penalties.
I think jmpasq is right, this was basically doing Obi a solid to get him to a team where he can score a lot but his defensive limitations don't particularly stand out.
I'm with Martin on the Obi hype Machine> Obi the player, despite him shining in some meaningless games.
I think not holding on to Obi and the aggregate contract value he and Evan can provide is indicative of Knicks not trading for a 30 million guy this summer. Just from a trade stand point, Obi was almost an expiring contract and any team would be happy to get a look at him. Problem is Indy can almost guarantee playing time and help him get a nice new deal.
Yes, my point was he is extension eligible now and the longer we wait the worse his trade value could be AND we do him a solid. Its also possible FO has a plan for either Roby or otherwise.
Those picks as trade fodder could matter.
Nalod wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Nalod wrote:KnickDanger wrote:So can the trade now be seen as Obi for DDV and two second rounders?
Of course. Don’t knicks fans know thats how we got DDV?
Obi was either due an extension or we had to take back salary.
Yes, Haliburton was the better pick. Yet, here we are after a very good season.
WE needed to not take back salary to sign DDV.
Do we really think FO did not think this thru?
Obi was a fan favorite. Changes are inevitable.
I don't think this is true. Obi was eligible for an extension this summer. Next summer he would be eligible for RFA if the Knicks extended a one year qualifying offer. With Josh Hart opting into his PO, Knicks had enough under tax space to use the full mle to sign DDV. Knicks could have had their Obi and ate DDV too.
If the Knicks want to use their Biannual exemption it will likely push them into the tax territory, depending on if they cut guys like Jeffries, Roby, and Sims. Of course being just a little in the tax is stupid because it opens you up to future repeater penalties.
I think jmpasq is right, this was basically doing Obi a solid to get him to a team where he can score a lot but his defensive limitations don't particularly stand out.
I'm with Martin on the Obi hype Machine> Obi the player, despite him shining in some meaningless games.
I think not holding on to Obi and the aggregate contract value he and Evan can provide is indicative of Knicks not trading for a 30 million guy this summer. Just from a trade stand point, Obi was almost an expiring contract and any team would be happy to get a look at him. Problem is Indy can almost guarantee playing time and help him get a nice new deal.
Yes, my point was he is extension eligible now and the longer we wait the worse his trade value could be AND we do him a solid. Its also possible FO has a plan for either Roby or otherwise.
Those picks as trade fodder could matter.
My bad, I misunderstood. I agree about the 'doing him a solid' part. Hopefully this gets known around the league that Knicks at least try to get guys into good situations. A lot of franchises seem all to willing to play the "it's a business" card.
The Knicks future draft picks are literally mind boggling.
I’m not sure what the fuss is about. I think at most we were going to get a late first/protected pick. Instead we got 2 seconds and gave our guy a shot at succeeding. I love OBI but I don’t think anyone saw him as more of a backup guy. He can’t shoot consistently or create his own shot.
I feel like this is how Atlanta felt when they gave up Reddish only this team it’s OBI.
TPercy wrote:I’m not sure what the fuss is about. I think at most we were going to get a late first/protected pick. Instead we got 2 seconds and gave our guy a shot at succeeding. I love OBI but I don’t think anyone saw him as more of a backup guy. He can’t shoot consistently or create his own shot.I feel like this is how Atlanta felt when they gave up Reddish only this team it’s OBI.
My main and continued complaint is that Obi the player unlike the TPE could be combined with Fournier s salary to trade for a much larger set of players than EFs salary alone.
Trade for something, exchange him for KJ Martin.
Memphis wanted DRose sign and trade him and Obi for Brooks.
No one in the league wanted the kid. I find it hard to believe all we could have got was two second rounders
gradyandrew wrote:TPercy wrote:I’m not sure what the fuss is about. I think at most we were going to get a late first/protected pick. Instead we got 2 seconds and gave our guy a shot at succeeding. I love OBI but I don’t think anyone saw him as more of a backup guy. He can’t shoot consistently or create his own shot.I feel like this is how Atlanta felt when they gave up Reddish only this team it’s OBI.
My main and continued complaint is that Obi the player unlike the TPE could be combined with Fournier s salary to trade for a much larger set of players than EFs salary alone.
Perhaps. But a team like Portland may not want to be tied down to worrying about Obis impending extension, renewal. Maybe the two 2nd rounders are seen as better value than having to deal with contract issues on unproven player.
2024 - Least favorable of IND, UTH and CLE; more favorable of (i) IND and (ii) less favorable of UTH and CLE to LAC (via UTH swap for CLE; via MIL to MEM; via MEM to LAC); MIL2025 - Own (via MIL); MIA 31-37
2026 - Least favorable of IND, MIA and SAN to MIN; more favorable of (i) SAN and (ii) less favorable of IND and MIA to SAN; less favorable of (i) BOS and (ii) more favorable of IND and MIA to BOS then other to MEM [MEM can swap this pick for LAC] (via MIA to IND; via SAN swap for IND or MIA; via MIL to MEM; via MEM swap of IND or MIA for BOS)
2027 - Three most favorable of IND, OKC, HOU and MIA to OKC then other to SAN (via HOU to DET to OKC; via UTH to SAN); UTH (via CLE)
2028 - Own
2029 - Own
Fair amount of crappy 2nd round picks in Indiana's future. I couldn't find any information about which ones are being sent out.
Listening to Bart and Hahn, and I'm getting caught up on one point/comment. Gave kudos to Randle for stepping up when he saw his role was in jeopardy (after Knicks drafted Obi #8) and said no one could have taken for granted that he'd come out balling like that in 20-21.
So question is - while we're reliving the 2020 draft complaining about the pick - is it fair to just assume Julius takes the same leap during his MIP season without a lottery pick PF, the reigning National Player of the Year, breathing down his neck as his presumed successor?
I'm not suggesting it was the right pick (especially with the benefit of hindsight), but it is an angle I hadn't thought about. Randle wanted to come to NY and quickly saw the fanbase turn on him and the FO draft a replacement. Talk about getting a jolt of motivation.
MS wrote:Trade for something, exchange him for KJ Martin.Memphis wanted DRose sign and trade him and Obi for Brooks.
No one in the league wanted the kid. I find it hard to believe all we could have got was two second rounders
KJ Martin, who also went for 2 seconds, wouldn't work because he becomes an unrestricted free agent after the season. Brooks makes no real sense for the roster now. He makes no real sense for the Rockets, but that's another discussion. We dulled Obi's value over the years and this is where it left things.
