One thing I will add, the NBA has made it increasingly more difficult for teams to duck the tax by forcing teams to guarantee the unguaranteed portion of contracts to make trades work (CPs deal was guaranteed to 25 million for the Beal trade) and forcing teams to hit the salary floor before the start of the season, rather than towards the end (like Indiana did last season).
Because of those changes, and an increasingly punitive tax, trade exceptions might have increasing value. Ie, if Kuminga isn't part of the Warriors rotation come trade deadline, they might be able to save something like 15 million in tax dollars by trading him to New York. In the right situation, Knicks could also get some draft compensation. A lot depends on how much there is in TPE money and above min salary/ below cap teams. I'm assuming Knicks front office has done some of the math on this.
gradyandrew wrote:One thing I will add, the NBA has made it increasingly more difficult for teams to duck the tax by forcing teams to guarantee the unguaranteed portion of contracts to make trades work (CPs deal was guaranteed to 25 million for the Beal trade) and forcing teams to hit the salary floor before the start of the season, rather than towards the end (like Indiana did last season).Because of those changes, and an increasingly punitive tax, trade exceptions might have increasing value. Ie, if Kuminga isn't part of the Warriors rotation come trade deadline, they might be able to save something like 15 million in tax dollars by trading him to New York. In the right situation, Knicks could also get some draft compensation. A lot depends on how much there is in TPE money and above min salary/ below cap teams. I'm assuming Knicks front office has done some of the math on this.
This is better math: could end up being Obi for kuminga and 2 seconds
2nd rounders are more valuable than late firsts as they don’t count against the new cap
gradyandrew wrote:One thing I will add, the NBA has made it increasingly more difficult for teams to duck the tax by forcing teams to guarantee the unguaranteed portion of contracts to make trades work (CPs deal was guaranteed to 25 million for the Beal trade) and forcing teams to hit the salary floor before the start of the season, rather than towards the end (like Indiana did last season).Because of those changes, and an increasingly punitive tax, trade exceptions might have increasing value. Ie, if Kuminga isn't part of the Warriors rotation come trade deadline, they might be able to save something like 15 million in tax dollars by trading him to New York. In the right situation, Knicks could also get some draft compensation. A lot depends on how much there is in TPE money and above min salary/ below cap teams. I'm assuming Knicks front office has done some of the math on this.
You have it wrong. Contracts need to be guaranteed to allow a team to hold the rights to that player for the next year and then that allows them to trade that player. This has always been part of the CBA. Nothing new about it.
Man Kuminga is who I wanted that draft. Trend is lottery picks that don't hit big get traded for second rounders. Obi not the first and only one.
It’s the shitty return and the fact that we spoon fed a rotation player with huge upside into a system with an elite level playmaker perhaps the best passer and rim protecting stretch 5.
If you asked what’s the best situation we can trade a guy whose value we destroyed too, the pacers would have been the number one option.
They also added an elite level defender, draft picks this offseason. There was zero reason to do this. Zero reason to draft his brother. Doesn’t make much sense.
BigRedDog wrote:Rather have had Duarte in return. Awful trade, waste of a lottery pick. Thibs just too stubborn to play Obi. Terrible offseason with Porzingis to Celtics and losing Obi for nothing.
Still have fruitless thought that separate Obi and Duarte trades could turn into a 3 way with Duarte ending up in NYC but no idea/how that could happen or why they wouldn’t have announced it that way.
It would seem they already have a player/trade specifically in mind (not Donte) where they know they need the few extra $ from Obi’s deal or maybe nothing.
Here to hoping that’s the case because we need a little more toughness at the 4. Unless we are banking on Simms stepping up.
You all know our fav Taj is gonna make a comeback
He is the new Herb 
Martin - any chance the Obi/Duarte trades could be combined or is that idea gone now?
martin wrote:gradyandrew wrote:One thing I will add, the NBA has made it increasingly more difficult for teams to duck the tax by forcing teams to guarantee the unguaranteed portion of contracts to make trades work (CPs deal was guaranteed to 25 million for the Beal trade) and forcing teams to hit the salary floor before the start of the season, rather than towards the end (like Indiana did last season).Because of those changes, and an increasingly punitive tax, trade exceptions might have increasing value. Ie, if Kuminga isn't part of the Warriors rotation come trade deadline, they might be able to save something like 15 million in tax dollars by trading him to New York. In the right situation, Knicks could also get some draft compensation. A lot depends on how much there is in TPE money and above min salary/ below cap teams. I'm assuming Knicks front office has done some of the math on this.
You have it wrong. Contracts need to be guaranteed to allow a team to hold the rights to that player for the next year and then that allows them to trade that player. This has always been part of the CBA. Nothing new about it.
Good call Martin. That rule was changed in the last CBA.
In negotiating a sign-and-trade deal, Cleveland benefited from the fact that the team's outgoing salary wasn't so bad. The Cavaliers made the decision earlier this week to guarantee Osman's modest $6.7 million salary, while Stevens' $1.9 million minimum salary was non-guaranteed. In order to facilitate the reported Strus contractunder the new NBA collective bargaining agreement, about one-fifth of that will have to be guaranteed.
Something changed though.
It wasn’t Brunson or Haliburton.
It’s the fact they saw the need to overpay Rose, Noel, Kemba, gave away a first to cover the mistake. Trade a first for Cam, gave away another because of a mistake.
It’s an inexact science. Haliburton is what we needed and if we went in another direction we needed a 3D wing in Vessel. Maxey was also a need.
We gave away a lottery pick for 2 second rounders. We could have traded that pick for something.
Leaking the fucking audio on that tape? Honestly, for what? I agree you need to force the action. Obi needed to rebound and attack, but Knicks also needed to build his value.
It’s not just Haliburton it’s TJ that has been looking for him. He’s going to average 16-18 next year. He will haunt us for years. Prefect team perfect situation.
I’m curious about the picks.
Knicks replace Toppin in the rotation with DiVincenzo. Now they just need a filler PF other than Roby.
gradyandrew wrote: In negotiating a sign-and-trade deal, Cleveland benefited from the fact that the team's outgoing salary wasn't so bad. The Cavaliers made the decision earlier this week to guarantee Osman's modest $6.7 million salary, while Stevens' $1.9 million minimum salary was non-guaranteed. In order to facilitate the reported Strus contractunder the new NBA collective bargaining agreement, about one-fifth of that will have to be guaranteed.
Something changed though.
gradyandrew wrote: In negotiating a sign-and-trade deal, Cleveland benefited from the fact that the team's outgoing salary wasn't so bad. The Cavaliers made the decision earlier this week to guarantee Osman's modest $6.7 million salary, while Stevens' $1.9 million minimum salary was non-guaranteed. In order to facilitate the reported Strus contractunder the new NBA collective bargaining agreement, about one-fifth of that will have to be guaranteed.
Something changed though.
That kinda sucks.
1) Tyrese Haliburton if drafted by the Knicks would have started behind, he who shall not be named, and his career might have started different then his career started at Sacremento. Who knows if he wouldn't have been an other Obi wasted talent wise. 2) Watford, what is his scouting report say ? He looks slow
KnickDanger wrote:I wanted Halliburton on draft night. But…if we take Hali do we now have Brunson? I’d rather have Brunson.Overreactions and declarations of complete failure are expected. Personally I think it’s okay not to like it but uncool to freak. Especially when there’s more to come. And let’s see if Obi shows Thibs to have been a fool - you know like Cam did.
Hali could line up at SG like he did playing next to Fox. He's shot 40% from three his whole career at 6'5. He can play off ball. And so could Brunson who played next to Luka and shoots about 40% from 3 himself.
Rose has had some missteps. Netting Brunson puts him in the green overall.
Also the NBA needs to emulate the NFL in terms of flexibility of compensation. Not sure if its negotiable or not within the rules. But like the picks should be able to elevate to the first round if his production warrants it. He makes an all star appearance. Then top 10 lotto protected or something.
martin wrote:gradyandrew wrote:The TPE is a lot less useful for trades than Obi the player because the TPE can not be combined with other players to make a trade. For example, adding Toppin to Fournier's contract opens up a lot more players to trades. With the TPE, Knicks have to find another player making 6.8 million or less. Also since the Knicks are above the Salary Cap, they can't use that to sign any FA's; the only money available is the Non taxpayer MLE. Using the full MLE also leaves Knicks below the tax line.
Knicks will still need to find a back-up PF; maybe this is Roby's time to shine. Say what you will about Obi, he consistently gets 20 points when ever he plays 30 minutes. He knows how to score. He's proven himself in a way Duarte hasn't.
Knicks might have a deal lined up to trade Fournier and get back more salary so this would keep them below the tax line. Those 2nd picks are of limited value because the Knicks have so many in the cupboard. This deal gets a D for now for the Knicks.
Question: why wasn’t the market bigger for Obi?
The Knicks did him a solid. They sent him to a great situation for a 2nd contract. Turner is a perfect fit at Center to play next him. Haliburton is an assist machine. If he doesn't drop 16-18 a night as a starter there he won't anywhere.
newyorknewyork wrote:KnickDanger wrote:I wanted Halliburton on draft night. But…if we take Hali do we now have Brunson? I’d rather have Brunson.Overreactions and declarations of complete failure are expected. Personally I think it’s okay not to like it but uncool to freak. Especially when there’s more to come. And let’s see if Obi shows Thibs to have been a fool - you know like Cam did.
Hali could line up at SG like he did playing next to Fox. He's shot 40% from three his whole career at 6'5. He can play off ball. And so could Brunson who played next to Luka and shoots about 40% from 3 himself.
Rose has had some missteps. Netting Brunson puts him in the green overall.
What I am saying is drafting Halliburton - which again is what I wanted and would be a highly better pick than Obi and yes was a misstep by our Rose led FO - would most likely have resulted in us not signing Brunson. Or maybe if he had a bagel instead of eggs for breakfast really who knows? But I seriously doubt those two things would have both occurred.
