Knicks · Remaining plausible scenarios for the offseason (page 2)

Trading for Paul George reminds me of trading for Antonio McDyse. Trading for OG feels like trading for Steven Francis.

franco12 wrote:Is there a video of RJ doing something especially fantastic?

I don’t understand everyone’s seeming fascination with OG. I just see a marginal role player who might have helped us in the past but doesn’t really offer upside on what we have on the roster today.

Key to us improving is having RJ develop a solid, reliable outside shot so he can punish teams that collapse on Randle and Brunson.

If he doesn’t have that this year, we should absolutely explore trading him.

1) Look up OG Aununoby’s hustle stats. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle... OG is 2nd in the NBA.

2) OG led the league in steals per game.

3) OG has a 7’2 Wingspan. At SF, that puts him near guys like Kawhi and Ingram at 7’3. Same reason I like Kelly Oubre.

4) Here is a video of him playing defense.

He was odds on leader for DPOY when this video came out in December. Didn’t hold up across the season, but the skill is there.

5) Shoots 37% from 3 and 82% from FT. Means we can keep him on the court in crunch time.

6) His 19% usage is pretty efficient. Much like Grimes. But his release point is much higher 8’11 standing reach. So, he will be able to get more shots off with that standing reach.

7) The Raptors significantly underperformed their talent level. They matched the Knicks up incredibly well. Because they had a tremendous amount more wingspan and hustle than the Knicks. So, we are hustlers that got out hustled.

8) I want him off the Raptors.

If there is a move that is Fournier and picks for OG, I pull that trigger all day. Only player higher on my list for the Knicks right now is Mikal Bridges.

9) Love me some Barrett but he hasn’t approached the potential his draft position dictates. It’s not impossible that he gets there, but between pedigree and Duke, I see a guy that was advanced over his draft class in many skill sets, but lacked the athleticism others had. As those athletes develop their skills, their talent level may exceed Barrett’s. People say Barrett just needs to develop a 3, but his metric indicators (FT% being the closest indicator) don’t currently show a player that is a fundamentally sound shooter. His 74 FT% and 31% 3 point percentage are just below average for the league. Could he just hit a switch and do better? Maybe. But if you compare him to OG, OG has the better biometrics, better shooting stats and better defense. His biggest flaw in our eyes is that Barrett takes more shots.

So, yeah, I am pretty high on OG. I would love to see what RJ brings, but RJ might have to channel his inner Wiggins to be his best version of himself.

I would like the FOs final move for the offseason is to trade for OG as well as pairing him with RJ. This will give the starting 5 more size with defense.

Maybe a package of Fournier, Grimes and 2 1st, i think the raptors might like IQ better but id rather hold on to IQ.

If a superstar wing(sg or sf) becomes available, they can package both RJ and OG to lessen the draft compensation or just make a package of RJ,iQ and multiple 1st to get it done.

A move to trade for OG wont be for the knicks to contend but to keep up with the improvements for the east and to position themselves for next year when potential superstar becomes available. I think if OG and RJ is in the roster, this can give the knicks even more flexibility for a superstar trade in the future that will not cripple the teams depth and future.

franco12 wrote:Is there a video of RJ doing something especially fantastic?

I don’t understand everyone’s seeming fascination with OG. I just see a marginal role player who might have helped us in the past but doesn’t really offer upside on what we have on the roster today.

Key to us improving is having RJ develop a solid, reliable outside shot so he can punish teams that collapse on Randle and Brunson.

If he doesn’t have that this year, we should absolutely explore trading him.

The one thing I’ll add to what EwingGlass wrote above is the defensive versatility that OG would bring to the roster.

The Knicks have an elite POA defender in Grimes. They have some super scrappy rebounding guards in Hart and DDV who are also good at getting steals in passing lanes. They have rim protection with Mitch iHart. They’ve got an elite off ball guard defender in IQ. They do not really have a big wing defender and OG adds that.

OG obviously adds depth at the PF position behind Randle while also being able to switch 1-4 easily.

Elite defender and solid spacer. Those things help Brunson Randle tremendously

gradyandrew wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:There's been some turmoil at the top of the conference with Milwaukee and Philly changing coaches and Boston losing Smart. If Knicks were planning on making any big trades, trading Obi doesn't make sense. I think the only move that gets done is possibly EF. No big trades.

I think big moves still perfectly possible - think the league as always is being held up by big names (Lillard, Harden) potentially moving and either before/after those sort out still plenty of significant movement could go down —- Knicks particularly IMO are still looking for big move (ex PG discussion).

I think OG, Towns, LaVine all still potentially on table this summer- Embid seems a complete pipe dream to me. Would Morey ever deal him to Knicks and if yes at what astronomical cost.

Why trade Obi then?

My understanding - whether right or wrong is that there were a few reasons for moving Obi.

- they had their eyes on re-signing Hart for a certain # and signing Donte with the MLE.
- in conjunction with above - they have some trades in mind (as reported looking at good players in their prime or again someone like PG)
- I think removing Obi and adding the other 2 guys --- puts us very close ~$80K to the tax threshold (not an expert here)
- so they moved Obi 1) in conjunction with Hart/Donte signings and now to add a more significant player will use the rest of the roster to put deals together
- Also - maybe part of it was to acknowledge Obi needs more minutes and as a favor to Obi and Leon's son his agent to get Obi somewhere to put up some stats
- Last point I think was key --- they didn't want a player/salary in return to Obi --- they could have easily got Duarte (also moved for 2 2nds) but they are fooling with CAP and are at least prepared to strike if opportunity presents itself

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Is there a video of RJ doing something especially fantastic?

I don’t understand everyone’s seeming fascination with OG. I just see a marginal role player who might have helped us in the past but doesn’t really offer upside on what we have on the roster today.

Key to us improving is having RJ develop a solid, reliable outside shot so he can punish teams that collapse on Randle and Brunson.

If he doesn’t have that this year, we should absolutely explore trading him.

The one thing I’ll add to what EwingGlass wrote above is the defensive versatility that OG would bring to the roster.

The Knicks have an elite POA defender in Grimes. They have some super scrappy rebounding guards in Hart and DDV who are also good at getting steals in passing lanes. They have rim protection with Mitch iHart. They’ve got an elite off ball guard defender in IQ. They do not really have a big wing defender and OG adds that.

OG obviously adds depth at the PF position behind Randle while also being able to switch 1-4 easily.

Elite defender and solid spacer. Those things help Brunson Randle tremendously

It would be a bit scary to move RJ for OG -- particularly with the age gap and I don't think OG is some kind of elite player but he is very good defensively and would really provide some defensive/length for us as well as a nice PF option when Julius sits or gets moved 1 or 2 years down the road.

Thing like Martin mentions would be to keep Grimes - then you have 3 solid defenders Grimes/OG/Mitch surrounding Randle/Brunson -- if you can keep IQ out of the trade you keep another very good defender around. Could even see Brunson/IQ/Grimes/OG/Mitch line-ups with 4 defenders - 3 spacers around Brunson.

Some of the stuff about RJ plus 2 or 3 picks -- blank that but OG is intriguing. He's also intriguing in line-ups with guys like Hart/Hart/Donte.

Knicks we're in the market for OG at the deadline. OG switched his agent and it seems like he's unhappy in Toronto. Toronto downgraded from FVV to Schroeder on a two year deal. The coaching change also plays in. OG is in an expiring so at least there's some potential he leaves in next year's FA. If Dillon Brooks can get 20 million, more with incentives, OG has to be thinking about a 30 million or more deal for the future. Knicks will likely be a luxury tax team starting next year. It makes sense to trade IQ if that gets the deal done because with Josh's extension IQ's OG's and Hart's, Knicks would push past the second apron. Maybe Knicks just wait on it and see how next season goes with Josh and DDV.

gradyandrew wrote:Knicks we're in the market for OG at the deadline. OG switched his agent and it seems like he's unhappy in Toronto. Toronto downgraded from FVV to Schroeder on a two year deal. The coaching change also plays in. OG is in an expiring so at least there's some potential he leaves in next year's FA. If Dillon Brooks can get 20 million, more with incentives, OG has to be thinking about a 30 million or more deal for the future. Knicks will likely be a luxury tax team starting next year. It makes sense to trade IQ if that gets the deal done because with Josh's extension IQ's OG's and Hart's, Knicks would push past the second apron. Maybe Knicks just wait on it and see how next season goes with Josh and DDV.

1) It’s a monitoring situation and not an “offer you can’t refuse” situation.

2) I think you are overstating the apron concern a little. 24-25, the Knicks would have about 80mm of apron space between IQ, Hart, Hart and [OG] plus any other roster fillers. The apron goes up pretty substantially after 25 - about 20mm to 209mm. Yeah, they need to pay attention but I wouldn’t be concerned. Worst case scenario is that they are a second apron team for 1 year. If their rotation is set, aside from some tax dollars, it’s not a big deal.

PJ Washington would be a nice addition to back up Randle. Other that leave the roster as is and see what level RJ can go to next season.

TLover wrote:PJ Washington would be a nice addition to back up Randle. Other that leave the roster as is and see what level RJ can go to next season.

He turned down 4 years 50mm with a demand for 4 years 80mm. Threatening to sign the QO at 8.5mm. Could offer Charlotte Fournier's contract, but is he worth 20mm + picks to get Charlotte to S&T? Willing to give up a starting role for a backup role behind Randle's 30+ minutes a game? Best player on a bad team? Not sure what his stats look like with Ball, Bridges and Brandon Miller taking shots. Pretty dumb to sign the QO. Also have to keep an eye on Kelly Oubre. Would be an interesting landing place for Christian Wood also. Ball could make him look like Amare.

Not exactly sure what Charlotte is doing though.

Alpha1971 wrote:Trading for Paul George reminds me of trading for Antonio McDyse. Trading for OG feels like trading for Steven Francis.

PG is a lot better than McDyess ever was.

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Trading for Paul George reminds me of trading for Antonio McDyse. Trading for OG feels like trading for Steven Francis.

PG is a lot better than McDyess ever was.

I like not love PG and prime McDyse was pretty special.

Thing with PG is 33, tons of injury, plays 1/2 games, wants huge extension and who we giving up.

EwingsGlass wrote:

TLover wrote:PJ Washington would be a nice addition to back up Randle. Other that leave the roster as is and see what level RJ can go to next season.

He turned down 4 years 50mm with a demand for 4 years 80mm. Threatening to sign the QO at 8.5mm. Could offer Charlotte Fournier's contract, but is he worth 20mm + picks to get Charlotte to S&T? Willing to give up a starting role for a backup role behind Randle's 30+ minutes a game? Best player on a bad team? Not sure what his stats look like with Ball, Bridges and Brandon Miller taking shots. Pretty dumb to sign the QO. Also have to keep an eye on Kelly Oubre. Would be an interesting landing place for Christian Wood also. Ball could make him look like Amare.

Not exactly sure what Charlotte is doing though.

Biggest? Would be why would PJ sign to sit behind Julius and play Obi’s 10-15 a night.

Like the player but hard to see him coming here and feels like we are waiting on bigger fish.

Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.

Knixkik wrote:Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.

Hopefully FVV leaving has put a new chill on their thought process

Knixkik wrote:Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.

I mean, I read that too and immediately thought the same thing. But then I thought to myself - this makes no sense. For starters, Portland doesn’t have the cap space to just take back any of those players. So, it wasn’t the 3 pick for any of those guys, straight up. Now, #3 and Anfernee Simons? That’s interesting. But was that the deal by itself? It doesn’t really work for OG by himself. The story doesn’t make math sense. At the beginning of the season it was clear that Portland had the desire but not the salary pieces to make trades. Their front office should be re-shuffled for poor cap management. They can turn it around in one or two moves by moving Lillard for 2 or 3 good core pieces and some picks. And they should. But right now, they can’t do anything.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.

I mean, I read that too and immediately thought the same thing. But then I thought to myself - this makes no sense. For starters, Portland doesn’t have the cap space to just take back any of those players. So, it wasn’t the 3 pick for any of those guys, straight up. Now, #3 and Anfernee Simons? That’s interesting. But was that the deal by itself? It doesn’t really work for OG by himself. The story doesn’t make math sense. At the beginning of the season it was clear that Portland had the desire but not the salary pieces to make trades. Their front office should be re-shuffled for poor cap management. They can turn it around in one or two moves by moving Lillard for 2 or 3 good core pieces and some picks. And they should. But right now, they can’t do anything.

It would have been Simons and #3 according to all of the reports.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.

Hopefully FVV leaving has put a new chill on their thought process

No, they are incredibly stubborn

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.

Hopefully FVV leaving has put a new chill on their thought process

No, they are incredibly stubborn

It actually may put Toronto in a position to keep OG because he wanted to be moved up the pecking order. Withough FVV there, he done got promoted.

joec32033 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.

Hopefully FVV leaving has put a new chill on their thought process

No, they are incredibly stubborn

It actually may put Toronto in a position to keep OG because he wanted to be moved up the pecking order. Withough FVV there, he done got promoted.

Yeah, they want to trade pascal so OG can get more shine. I think OG will get exposed

Randle is in his late 20s but has been in the league a long time, logged a lot of minutes. Brunson plays a very physical brand of bball. Was 3rd in the league in taking charges last season. Tim Hardaway used to lead the league with the Knicks. Sure didnt help his availability. Doubt it will help JB's.

I see a talented team but not talented enough to contend. I dont believe anyone should assume that Randle will keep playing like he's 21, and Brunson will keep taking all the hits he does, and the Knicks will just plow through. Mitch cant create, has no chemistry (as of now) with JB. Grimes, who knows if he will come back with a mid-range game, better handle?

Cant force a trade that doesnt make sense. but going into next season with this roster doesnt feel like a good offseason either. Still plenty of time for the FO to see if there are any moves that can be made.

The Knicks have been very patient (and smart) since Phil left, about handing out bad contracts, keeping their powder dry so to speak. Hope the Knicks find a way to get off a good shot in the near future. Dont consider an aging, injury prone, star like PG to be it. They can do better, they have to better than the old way.