Knicks · Remaining plausible scenarios for the offseason (page 3)
I see a talented team but not talented enough to contend. I dont believe anyone should assume that Randle will keep playing like he's 21, and Brunson will keep taking all the hits he does, and the Knicks will just plow through. Mitch cant create, has no chemistry (as of now) with JB. Grimes, who knows if he will come back with a mid-range game, better handle?
Cant force a trade that doesnt make sense. but going into next season with this roster doesnt feel like a good offseason either. Still plenty of time for the FO to see if there are any moves that can be made.
The Knicks have been very patient (and smart) since Phil left, about handing out bad contracts, keeping their powder dry so to speak. Hope the Knicks find a way to get off a good shot in the near future. Dont consider an aging, injury prone, star like PG to be it. They can do better, they have to better than the old way.
GustavBahler wrote:Randle is in his late 20s but has been in the league a long time, logged a lot of minutes. Brunson plays a very physical brand of bball. Was 3rd in the league in taking charges last season. Tim Hardaway used to lead the league with the Knicks. Sure didnt help his availability. Doubt it will help JB's.I see a talented team but not talented enough to contend. I dont believe anyone should assume that Randle will keep playing like he's 21, and Brunson will keep taking all the hits he does, and the Knicks will just plow through. Mitch cant create, has no chemistry (as of now) with JB. Grimes, who knows if he will come back with a mid-range game, better handle?
Cant force a trade that doesnt make sense. but going into next season with this roster doesnt feel like a good offseason either. Still plenty of time for the FO to see if there are any moves that can be made.
The Knicks have been very patient (and smart) since Phil left, about handing out bad contracts, keeping their powder dry so to speak. Hope the Knicks find a way to get off a good shot in the near future. Dont consider an aging, injury prone, star like PG to be it. They can do better, they have to better than the old way.
Why not? Seems like the Knicks were just hitting their stride and starting to figure things out. Over the last third of the season, they had the 3rd best record in league. Last half of season? Tied for 5th.
The team internally has a ton of growth coming towards them in guys like Grimes, IQ, RJ, Mitch, iHart. Even Brunson.
They added a spacer guy who can handle ball, one of their biggest weaknesses.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Randle is in his late 20s but has been in the league a long time, logged a lot of minutes. Brunson plays a very physical brand of bball. Was 3rd in the league in taking charges last season. Tim Hardaway used to lead the league with the Knicks. Sure didnt help his availability. Doubt it will help JB's.I see a talented team but not talented enough to contend. I dont believe anyone should assume that Randle will keep playing like he's 21, and Brunson will keep taking all the hits he does, and the Knicks will just plow through. Mitch cant create, has no chemistry (as of now) with JB. Grimes, who knows if he will come back with a mid-range game, better handle?
Cant force a trade that doesnt make sense. but going into next season with this roster doesnt feel like a good offseason either. Still plenty of time for the FO to see if there are any moves that can be made.
The Knicks have been very patient (and smart) since Phil left, about handing out bad contracts, keeping their powder dry so to speak. Hope the Knicks find a way to get off a good shot in the near future. Dont consider an aging, injury prone, star like PG to be it. They can do better, they have to better than the old way.
Why not? Seems like the Knicks were just hitting their stride and starting to figure things out. Over the last third of the season, they had the 3rd best record in league. Last half of season? Tied for 5th.
The team internally has a ton of growth coming towards them in guys like Grimes, IQ, RJ, Mitch, iHart. Even Brunson.
They added a spacer guy who can handle ball, one of their biggest weaknesses.
Relative to what the best teams in the East are doing, I would see this offseason as a plateau. We went to the next level with the addition of Brunson, Hart as well.
The loss of Obi, and the addition of Divincenzo looks right now like a lateral move. We have a glut of guards.
If IQ is moved, I hope its for a player in their prime, or entering it. Trading Obi and IQ this offseason and not getting back a young impact player. Would feel like a step back.
But we shall see.
Caseloads wrote:joec32033 wrote:Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Recent reports say the raptors weren’t willing to move Siakam or OG for #3 (which is crazy) essentially puts the Anunoby dream to bed.Hopefully FVV leaving has put a new chill on their thought process
No, they are incredibly stubborn
It actually may put Toronto in a position to keep OG because he wanted to be moved up the pecking order. Withough FVV there, he done got promoted.
Yeah, they want to trade pascal so OG can get more shine. I think OG will get exposed
No, I still think they want to move both because of the cap implications. But I agree, OG shot creation will get exposed unless Barnes has taken a huge jump as a playmaker.
9-man rotation is locked in. Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, Quickley, Hart, DiVincenzo and Hartenstein. I think the floor is raised by replacing Toppin with DiVincenzo, but not the ceiling. The shooting and versatility in the rotation improves, but with Hart and Barrett closing games a lot, the fundamental shooting concerns don’t really change. Knicks are still limited offensively around Brunson and Randle. I wonder if Myles Turner (who just signed with CAA) is worth revisiting. He would improve the offense without giving up anything defensively. But Indiana hasn’t moved him so at this point why would they ? He fits with their group. Adding Turner or Anunoby would help to shore things up around the margins but those guys are even unavailable, so seems like options are running thin.
Had the Knicks landed a pick from Dallas and drafted Cam Whitmore (who’s been good in SL) and added DiVincenzo, I would say great offseason. Whitmore would have offered backup PF minutes as needed and would have essentially become the 10th man. Given his age, he could have been brought along slowly outside of the regular rotation, but still offering the roster a high upside prospect and in the pipeline. My biggest issue with this Knicks team is continuing to punt picks and leaving the cupboard bare. Summer league hope is dependent on Jaylen Martin who looks the part but needs years to see if he’s a player. In this new era, building a championship team also means having talent on rookie contracts, and the Knicks will be running low on that very soon. Hopefully next year they can replenish, but there’s a 3 draft gap right now and that’s too wide.
Anyways I’m starting to internally prep for this 9-man rotation to remain unchanged until the trade deadline at the earliest, and I’m happy with it, and want to see it thrive, but someone in the rotation will really need to step up for this team to carry over last season’s momentum.
Knixkik wrote:Doesn’t seem like any major moves this summer. Knicks are keeping the options open. They don’t like KAT or PG at their prices. OG isn’t available. With FVV gone, OG will get some increased on-ball reps in Toronto like he wants. Knicks are probably just waiting out Embiid or Mitchell, not knowing for sure if either will become available even next summer.9-man rotation is locked in. Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, Quickley, Hart, DiVincenzo and Hartenstein. I think the floor is raised by replacing Toppin with DiVincenzo, but not the ceiling. The shooting and versatility in the rotation improves, but with Hart and Barrett closing games a lot, the fundamental shooting concerns don’t really change. Knicks are still limited offensively around Brunson and Randle. I wonder if Myles Turner (who just signed with CAA) is worth revisiting. He would improve the offense without giving up anything defensively. But Indiana hasn’t moved him so at this point why would they ? He fits with their group. Adding Turner or Anunoby would help to shore things up around the margins but those guys are even unavailable, so seems like options are running thin.
Had the Knicks landed a pick from Dallas and drafted Cam Whitmore (who’s been good in SL) and added DiVincenzo, I would say great offseason. Whitmore would have offered backup PF minutes as needed and would have essentially become the 10th man. Given his age, he could have been brought along slowly outside of the regular rotation, but still offering the roster a high upside prospect and in the pipeline. My biggest issue with this Knicks team is continuing to punt picks and leaving the cupboard bare. Summer league hope is dependent on Jaylen Martin who looks the part but needs years to see if he’s a player. In this new era, building a championship team also means having talent on rookie contracts, and the Knicks will be running low on that very soon. Hopefully next year they can replenish, but there’s a 3 draft gap right now and that’s too wide.
Anyways I’m starting to internally prep for this 9-man rotation to remain unchanged until the trade deadline at the earliest, and I’m happy with it, and want to see it thrive, but someone in the rotation will really need to step up for this team to carry over last season’s momentum.
No. People would cry that he needs time and Julius is blocking him. They have literally just been there with Obi.
joec32033 wrote:Knixkik wrote:Doesn’t seem like any major moves this summer. Knicks are keeping the options open. They don’t like KAT or PG at their prices. OG isn’t available. With FVV gone, OG will get some increased on-ball reps in Toronto like he wants. Knicks are probably just waiting out Embiid or Mitchell, not knowing for sure if either will become available even next summer.9-man rotation is locked in. Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, Quickley, Hart, DiVincenzo and Hartenstein. I think the floor is raised by replacing Toppin with DiVincenzo, but not the ceiling. The shooting and versatility in the rotation improves, but with Hart and Barrett closing games a lot, the fundamental shooting concerns don’t really change. Knicks are still limited offensively around Brunson and Randle. I wonder if Myles Turner (who just signed with CAA) is worth revisiting. He would improve the offense without giving up anything defensively. But Indiana hasn’t moved him so at this point why would they ? He fits with their group. Adding Turner or Anunoby would help to shore things up around the margins but those guys are even unavailable, so seems like options are running thin.
Had the Knicks landed a pick from Dallas and drafted Cam Whitmore (who’s been good in SL) and added DiVincenzo, I would say great offseason. Whitmore would have offered backup PF minutes as needed and would have essentially become the 10th man. Given his age, he could have been brought along slowly outside of the regular rotation, but still offering the roster a high upside prospect and in the pipeline. My biggest issue with this Knicks team is continuing to punt picks and leaving the cupboard bare. Summer league hope is dependent on Jaylen Martin who looks the part but needs years to see if he’s a player. In this new era, building a championship team also means having talent on rookie contracts, and the Knicks will be running low on that very soon. Hopefully next year they can replenish, but there’s a 3 draft gap right now and that’s too wide.
Anyways I’m starting to internally prep for this 9-man rotation to remain unchanged until the trade deadline at the earliest, and I’m happy with it, and want to see it thrive, but someone in the rotation will really need to step up for this team to carry over last season’s momentum.
No. People would cry that he needs time and Julius is blocking him. They have literally just been there with Obi.
Obi was strictly a PF. Can’t play another position effectively. Someone like Whitmore is a combo forward who can play in different alignments. That’s the difference. This team needs a backup PF who can actually play other positions. Either someone similar to Gibson skill wise who can play 4/5 or a small forward who can shift up a position.
blkexec wrote:This is interesting. Might be the best trade scenario for the big 3 before they retire. Thoughts? Personally I like kuminga’s upside.
I wouldn’t trade either Mitch or grimes let alone both, unless it’s a clear upgrade at either position.
Knixkik wrote:blkexec wrote:This is interesting. Might be the best trade scenario for the big 3 before they retire. Thoughts? Personally I like kuminga’s upside.I wouldn’t trade either Mitch or grimes let alone both, unless it’s a clear upgrade at either position.
Interesting, I actually am kinda ok with it but getting 4 players is a waste. They have too many already. If you could do the deal with Looney and Kuminga and a pick (or swap) for Robinson, I would be more ok with it, but it definately hurts the interior defense.
joec32033 wrote:Knixkik wrote:blkexec wrote:This is interesting. Might be the best trade scenario for the big 3 before they retire. Thoughts? Personally I like kuminga’s upside.I wouldn’t trade either Mitch or grimes let alone both, unless it’s a clear upgrade at either position.
Interesting, I actually am kinda ok with it but getting 4 players is a waste. They have too many already. If you could do the deal with Looney and Kuminga and a pick (or swap) for Robinson, I would be more ok with it, but it definately hurts the interior defense.
There is already no rotation spots available. Can’t trade for Kuminga without another move preceding it. Mitch to looney is a downgrade for this team. He seems like he fits well in golden state but wouldn’t have the same impact elsewhere. Any combination of this type of trade would improve golden state in the near term, but the Knicks are also trying to get better now so I don’t see it making sense.
Knixkik wrote:that's a terrible trade. Grimes and Mitch? How about Brandon Ingram for that. We're a 2nd round team trading 2 starters for a bench prospect?blkexec wrote:This is interesting. Might be the best trade scenario for the big 3 before they retire. Thoughts? Personally I like kuminga’s upside.I wouldn’t trade either Mitch or grimes let alone both, unless it’s a clear upgrade at either position.
I dont get how running an ascending team back is staying pat while teams in the east are improving. Other teams are getting older while the young Knicks are getting better and more experienced. See I can do that too 
Knixkik wrote:joec32033 wrote:Knixkik wrote:blkexec wrote:This is interesting. Might be the best trade scenario for the big 3 before they retire. Thoughts? Personally I like kuminga’s upside.I wouldn’t trade either Mitch or grimes let alone both, unless it’s a clear upgrade at either position.
Interesting, I actually am kinda ok with it but getting 4 players is a waste. They have too many already. If you could do the deal with Looney and Kuminga and a pick (or swap) for Robinson, I would be more ok with it, but it definately hurts the interior defense.
There is already no rotation spots available. Can’t trade for Kuminga without another move preceding it. Mitch to looney is a downgrade for this team. He seems like he fits well in golden state but wouldn’t have the same impact elsewhere. Any combination of this type of trade would improve golden state in the near term, but the Knicks are also trying to get better now so I don’t see it making sense.
To me Looney is a throw in, idc what minutes he gets. A rotation of iHart, Looney, Sims is good enough. The deal is about Kuminga and the pick to me. I think Sims can develop just the way Mitch did.
joec32033 wrote:Knixkik wrote:joec32033 wrote:Knixkik wrote:blkexec wrote:This is interesting. Might be the best trade scenario for the big 3 before they retire. Thoughts? Personally I like kuminga’s upside.I wouldn’t trade either Mitch or grimes let alone both, unless it’s a clear upgrade at either position.
Interesting, I actually am kinda ok with it but getting 4 players is a waste. They have too many already. If you could do the deal with Looney and Kuminga and a pick (or swap) for Robinson, I would be more ok with it, but it definately hurts the interior defense.
There is already no rotation spots available. Can’t trade for Kuminga without another move preceding it. Mitch to looney is a downgrade for this team. He seems like he fits well in golden state but wouldn’t have the same impact elsewhere. Any combination of this type of trade would improve golden state in the near term, but the Knicks are also trying to get better now so I don’t see it making sense.
To me Looney is a throw in, idc what minutes he gets. A rotation of iHart, Looney, Sims is good enough. The deal is about Kuminga and the pick to me. I think Sims can develop just the way Mitch did.
Sims is nowhere near the talent Mitch is. He doesn’t have the height/ length or the defensive instincts. It isn’t easy to replicate what Mitch is.
Knixkik wrote:joec32033 wrote:Knixkik wrote:joec32033 wrote:Knixkik wrote:blkexec wrote:This is interesting. Might be the best trade scenario for the big 3 before they retire. Thoughts? Personally I like kuminga’s upside.I wouldn’t trade either Mitch or grimes let alone both, unless it’s a clear upgrade at either position.
Interesting, I actually am kinda ok with it but getting 4 players is a waste. They have too many already. If you could do the deal with Looney and Kuminga and a pick (or swap) for Robinson, I would be more ok with it, but it definately hurts the interior defense.
There is already no rotation spots available. Can’t trade for Kuminga without another move preceding it. Mitch to looney is a downgrade for this team. He seems like he fits well in golden state but wouldn’t have the same impact elsewhere. Any combination of this type of trade would improve golden state in the near term, but the Knicks are also trying to get better now so I don’t see it making sense.
To me Looney is a throw in, idc what minutes he gets. A rotation of iHart, Looney, Sims is good enough. The deal is about Kuminga and the pick to me. I think Sims can develop just the way Mitch did.
Sims is nowhere near the talent Mitch is. He doesn’t have the height/ length or the defensive instincts. It isn’t easy to replicate what Mitch is.
I get that. But first I have never been a huge Mitch fan. I see a really really good defensive center who keeps opening his mouth about being unhappy. Be happy you are Marcus Camby instead of trying to convince people you are Tim Duncan. In this system as long as you have a defensive center you can get by, but to be fully maximized this system needs a center that has more dimension to his game. Mitch is great at what he does, but he isn't a guy like prime Joakim Noah. Mitch is a distraction. Here he is a role player, and that role is defensive anchor.
No you can't replace what he does, but this system doesn't NEED Mitch Robinson. For his role, any higher level defenderbat the position would do. To maximize the position, your center needs to be more versatile.
I never really gave my opinion other than it’s a great trade for GS. For us there needs to be more to this trade than what they originally offered, which is why I believe it hasn’t been done.
I agree with both sides of this argument but it’s more fun to agree with joe the minority on a few points than to agree with the obvious. Grimes and Mitch is a lot. But DDV makes grimes expendable and Mitch loves the paint, along with majority of the starting lineup. I think iHart is a good fit n will impact this team with Mitch mins.
Mitch is my guy but he’s replaceable in this system. Just look how iHart performs when Mitch is out. In this scenario iHart steps up and gets more mins. Looney has more rings than anybody on the team. Sims os developing. He will impact this team with his rebounding and activity. He plays his role.
I agree that kuminga and pick(s) would be interesting. And maybe this leads us into another trade. But knick fans tend to overrate their own players, and this team needs a mobile center or iHart type center. If anything this puts pressure on philly to trade embed if they want Mitch in return for a blockbuster move.
blkexec wrote:Look at joe going against the grain. I see you.I never really gave my opinion other than it’s a great trade for GS. For us there needs to be more to this trade than what they originally offered, which is why I believe it hasn’t been done.
I agree with both sides of this argument but it’s more fun to agree with joe the minority on a few points than to agree with the obvious. Grimes and Mitch is a lot. But DDV makes grimes expendable and Mitch loves the paint, along with majority of the starting lineup. I think iHart is a good fit n will impact this team with Mitch mins.
Mitch is my guy but he’s replaceable in this system. Just look how iHart performs when Mitch is out. In this scenario iHart steps up and gets more mins. Looney has more rings than anybody on the team. Sims os developing. He will impact this team with his rebounding and activity. He plays his role.
I agree that kuminga and pick(s) would be interesting. And maybe this leads us into another trade. But knick fans tend to overrate their own players, and this team needs a mobile center or iHart type center. If anything this puts pressure on philly to trade embed if they want Mitch in return for a blockbuster move.
I'll just do Mitch. Giving up Mitch and Grimes for pieces they don't need is stupid. Like I said this deal is about collecting talent. Kuminga and a pick for Mitch adds to the talent base, gives some more tradeable assets and Kuminga is a high upside 2 way 2/3/4 that this league is currently built on.
And I also believe Mitch will be better in Golden State. He will be surrounded by scorers with no choice but to do what he does best.
iHart isn't him-especially defensively- but he has a much closer skill set to Noah- the type of center Thibs is comfortable with. His passing and ability to hit the 3 would fit in well in a lineup with the starters to unclog the middle a bit.