Knicks · Remaining plausible scenarios for the offseason (page 8)
martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Evan Fournier for Davis Bertrans and a young player like Garuba or another. OKC has to consolidate the roster. Bertrans stretch 4 10th man.I don’t think the Knicks want Bertans contract since it’s partially guaranteed in 2025. Seems like it’s San Antonio or bust for a Fournier contract dump for right now. McDermott makes the most sense, but San Antonio will have more guys eligible for trade in early September so maybe we get some traction then.
Fournier-McDermott swap doesn't make sense cause it just adds a player who would be behind Josh Hart in the rotation? And DDV as a spacer? You are not getting value back realistically, just shuffling the deck.
OKC has to consolidate their roster and will most likely make some cuts. Garuba is a good candidate for that and I'd target him in a small transaction type deal.
I don’t know Martin - I think Doug M would be a solid swap for Fournier.
He has more size so he could be a legit back up 4 and the 12-15 mins he might get would fit IMO at this point in his career. Plus he’s a legit shooter, one who has to be honored so he’s just another piece that could fit and perhaps win us a game or 2 with a big shot.
Above said - Thibs may already have Hart targeted for the back-up 4 minutes or we are just waiting on another trade for a bigger ‘ longer defensive 4.
1) whose 12-15 minutes are you taking away from?
2) why not hold on to Fournier for a better potential swap?
Yeah I guess my assumption is if they move Fournier they would have already tried to move the salary but couldn’t but I get that part.
Guess the minutes come from everywhere — starting by trimming Julius/Brunson and we could also just have him ready for when injuries hit - he’s at least a viable 4 vs Fournier and we could use help against zone defenses.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Evan Fournier for Davis Bertrans and a young player like Garuba or another. OKC has to consolidate the roster. Bertrans stretch 4 10th man.I don’t think the Knicks want Bertans contract since it’s partially guaranteed in 2025. Seems like it’s San Antonio or bust for a Fournier contract dump for right now. McDermott makes the most sense, but San Antonio will have more guys eligible for trade in early September so maybe we get some traction then.
Fournier-McDermott swap doesn't make sense cause it just adds a player who would be behind Josh Hart in the rotation? And DDV as a spacer? You are not getting value back realistically, just shuffling the deck.
OKC has to consolidate their roster and will most likely make some cuts. Garuba is a good candidate for that and I'd target him in a small transaction type deal.
I don’t know Martin - I think Doug M would be a solid swap for Fournier.
He has more size so he could be a legit back up 4 and the 12-15 mins he might get would fit IMO at this point in his career. Plus he’s a legit shooter, one who has to be honored so he’s just another piece that could fit and perhaps win us a game or 2 with a big shot.
Above said - Thibs may already have Hart targeted for the back-up 4 minutes or we are just waiting on another trade for a bigger ‘ longer defensive 4.
1) whose 12-15 minutes are you taking away from?
2) why not hold on to Fournier for a better potential swap?
Yeah I guess my assumption is if they move Fournier they would have already tried to move the salary but couldn’t but I get that part.
Guess the minutes come from everywhere — starting by trimming Julius/Brunson and we could also just have him ready for when injuries hit - he’s at least a viable 4 vs Fournier and we could use help against zone defenses.
I'm assuming that they got DDV for spacing and he is already taking minutes from the same guys McDermott would, he is just a tad bigger and I don't know about his D. IMO realistically offers nothing too much different.
I'd guess that Lillard is holding up the trade market and OG (or someone TBD) is still out there until Masai comes to his senses.
Alpha1971 wrote:OG for IQ, Evan and a few FRPs is a fair deal. We will be a good team so give our own picks top 8 protected. I like the idea of having a three forward rotation of Randall, OG and Barrett backing both of them up. With a four guard rotation of Brunson, Grimes, Hart and DDV. With Deuce and Simms in reserve with more picks to make a few more trades or picks going forward. Yet, I think we can trade for another wing like Trey Murphy or Tari Eason.
Can you explain to me why the hell an OG trade warrants IQ plus A FEW picks? IQ is a Damn good player.
Panos wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:OG for IQ, Evan and a few FRPs is a fair deal. We will be a good team so give our own picks top 8 protected. I like the idea of having a three forward rotation of Randall, OG and Barrett backing both of them up. With a four guard rotation of Brunson, Grimes, Hart and DDV. With Deuce and Simms in reserve with more picks to make a few more trades or picks going forward. Yet, I think we can trade for another wing like Trey Murphy or Tari Eason.Can you explain to me why the hell an OG trade warrants IQ plus A FEW picks? IQ is a Damn good player.
I am just operating on reports that Toronto already turned down offers including several first rounders. I agree I would think IQ, possibly their replacement for Van Fleet, a salary filler in Evan would be enough. But if they need more I would have said of the Knicks want him at least a couple of first rounders is needed to move the hesitation from the other team. I agree with you it should just e a deal like when Haliburton was traded for Sabobis. But I don't see the trade happening due to the attitude of Masiri. Especially for an injured player in his last year. Let's see maybe the actual trade is for far less then what Toronto is asking for or they watch him leave for nothing
But what if hia game looks very much the same? And we just traded IQ who can play SG, and be Brunson's heir apparent at PG. I could see the franchise regretting that one.
OG isnt a good enough haul. I hope the FO waits until at least the first trade deadline. See how things shake out with Grimes, DIVincenzo.
GustavBahler wrote:Until we see if Grimes has taken his game to the next level, Trading IQ seems like a bad idea. If Grimes comes back and he has a midrange game. He starts driving more from the top of the key. Great, we have our starting SG going forward.But what if hia game looks very much the same? And we just traded IQ who can play SG, and be Brunson's heir apparent at PG. I could see the franchise regretting that one.
OG isnt a good enough haul. I hope the FO waits until at least the first trade deadline. See how things shake out with Grimes, DIVincenzo.
Unless Thibs and the FO believes Deuce is a legit backup PG who can slide into IQs role. But adding DDV whos a legit SG, Grimes is now in a crowded position at SG, while IQ is still the best backup PG on the team (probably in the entire eastern conference).
I agree, no move is the best move right now. Meanwhile we are still in position for a major trade, we have a young team and we have several picks, while coming off a great season. Can't asking for anything better. Looking forward to a new season. I believe DDV will have a Josh Hart impact.
GustavBahler wrote:Until we see if Grimes has taken his game to the next level, Trading IQ seems like a bad idea. If Grimes comes back and he has a midrange game. He starts driving more from the top of the key. Great, we have our starting SG going forward.But what if hia game looks very much the same? And we just traded IQ who can play SG, and be Brunson's heir apparent at PG. I could see the franchise regretting that one.
OG isnt a good enough haul. I hope the FO waits until at least the first trade deadline. See how things shake out with Grimes, DIVincenzo.
I think IQ will not be down to be an understudy and this next surge if any will be expensive to put in our salary structure.
Question to think is how long Can brunson be at this level and his body hold up? Not unlike any other player really.
One has to assume Grimes won't look entirely different to start the season but over 82 games get were its instinctive.
By then, IQ will be B-lining it to Restrictive free agency and we get the squeeze.
At the same time what is IQ's real market? Few players hit FA status who are desirable and perhaps its on IQ to play so well he essentially forces a decision and perhaps a trade.
Grimes just going into year three and perhaps we are in the same boat with him in 12 months. He and DDV are vying for the starting job. IQ is not likely to take JB's starting minutes.
Our glut of back court makes for interesting times. Knicks not the only team in the situation.
On Windhoursts PodCast today they outlined Detroits talent and lack of outside shooting with its young core. Burks and Bogdonovich are the shooters. Cade needs shooters to open things up. Ivy and Thompson won't help there.
They also have Bagley, Duran, and Wiseman.
Also prime for a consolidated trade are the Thunder who also have a pile of picks.
Currently we have DDV, IQ, Grimes, EF at the two. IQ is also the PG? I think so.
Josh Hart is a 3 behind StarJay? At 6-4 he is same size as DDV and I think Grimes is 6-5.
Plausible? The great answers will fall soon enough. FO's are on vacay and perhaps if Dame Lillard bottlneck is satisfied other deals start to fall.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Until we see if Grimes has taken his game to the next level, Trading IQ seems like a bad idea. If Grimes comes back and he has a midrange game. He starts driving more from the top of the key. Great, we have our starting SG going forward.But what if hia game looks very much the same? And we just traded IQ who can play SG, and be Brunson's heir apparent at PG. I could see the franchise regretting that one.
OG isnt a good enough haul. I hope the FO waits until at least the first trade deadline. See how things shake out with Grimes, DIVincenzo.
I think IQ will not be down to be an understudy and this next surge if any will be expensive to put in our salary structure.
Question to think is how long Can brunson be at this level and his body hold up? Not unlike any other player really.
One has to assume Grimes won't look entirely different to start the season but over 82 games get were its instinctive.
By then, IQ will be B-lining it to Restrictive free agency and we get the squeeze.
At the same time what is IQ's real market? Few players hit FA status who are desirable and perhaps its on IQ to play so well he essentially forces a decision and perhaps a trade.Grimes just going into year three and perhaps we are in the same boat with him in 12 months. He and DDV are vying for the starting job. IQ is not likely to take JB's starting minutes.
Our glut of back court makes for interesting times. Knicks not the only team in the situation.
On Windhoursts PodCast today they outlined Detroits talent and lack of outside shooting with its young core. Burks and Bogdonovich are the shooters. Cade needs shooters to open things up. Ivy and Thompson won't help there.
They also have Bagley, Duran, and Wiseman.
Also prime for a consolidated trade are the Thunder who also have a pile of picks.Currently we have DDV, IQ, Grimes, EF at the two. IQ is also the PG? I think so.
Josh Hart is a 3 behind StarJay? At 6-4 he is same size as DDV and I think Grimes is 6-5.Plausible? The great answers will fall soon enough. FO's are on vacay and perhaps if Dame Lillard bottlneck is satisfied other deals start to fall.
I dont expect Grimes to have it all figured out to start the season. The next step for Grimes isnt hitting midrange jumpers, floaters. Its attempting them. I'm hoping to see the little things to start the season. Signs of progress.
As for Brunson, for all the times JB (an undersized PG) has taken charges. There were lots of calls that didnt go his way. Those cause wear and tear as well. THJ missed a lot games from playing the same way, and is a bigger player.
We were able to get Brunson healthy, and at the start of his prime, and with no a big cap hit. Hope to see the FO treat these two events as having a time limit. Thats not easy to pull off with arguably our best player. Especially if IQ is traded, and we dont have a plan B for PG.
I agree Detroit would be an intruiging trade partner. Lots of young talent. Not enough vets. Believe we will have a better selection of trade partners at the first deadline. I dont see a lot of options this summer.
I don't see IQ as a PG but there is room for improvement.
BigDaddyG wrote:Bill Simmons did an interesting exercise with Ryan Rusillo in his last podcast where in which each team had to protect 8 players in an expansion draft. They both agreed that the Knicks are likely losing somebody. They had us protecting Randle, RJ, Brunson, Hart, DD, MitchRob, IQ and iHart. I disagree with the list and say that Grimes would be protected over iHart. Yes, we're already loaded at SG, but I feel Grimes just has a higher a ceiling and value than iHart. Also, I'm not sure the team is even able to retain iHart after this year. Who would you guys protect. As an aside, I think the Thunder as the team that would get hurt the most in this scenario.
I have both Grimes and iHart above DDV.
Both are more impactful IMHO
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Bill Simmons did an interesting exercise with Ryan Rusillo in his last podcast where in which each team had to protect 8 players in an expansion draft. They both agreed that the Knicks are likely losing somebody. They had us protecting Randle, RJ, Brunson, Hart, DD, MitchRob, IQ and iHart. I disagree with the list and say that Grimes would be protected over iHart. Yes, we're already loaded at SG, but I feel Grimes just has a higher a ceiling and value than iHart. Also, I'm not sure the team is even able to retain iHart after this year. Who would you guys protect. As an aside, I think the Thunder as the team that would get hurt the most in this scenario.I have both Grimes and iHart above DDV.
Both are more impactful IMHO
😏 We haven't even seen Donte in a Knicks uniform. We know who Martin's next whipping boy is after RJ gets traded. 🤣 Joking aside, Donte would probably be the best candidate, except we just signed him on a slight discount. I don't think the FO would do that to Jalen's guy.
Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.
It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.
MS wrote:OG for IQ and a conditional maybe. Although IQ is always healthy and if you play him the same minutes is OG you’re getting similar production with more games played.Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.
It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.
Plausible and compelling
Nalod wrote:MS wrote:OG for IQ and a conditional maybe. Although IQ is always healthy and if you play him the same minutes is OG you’re getting similar production with more games played.Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.
It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.
Plausible and compelling
I have suggested going after Ayton who is younger and better vs Mitch imo.
Quick trade is a bit trickier because he’s young, plays premium position and defends plus don’t like the Randle/OG/RJ trio together - to clunky/ sloppy. Have always assumed RJ or Randle would have to go if OG was coming in - maybe Randle to 3rd team or RJ directly to Raps.
LivingLegend wrote:Nalod wrote:MS wrote:OG for IQ and a conditional maybe. Although IQ is always healthy and if you play him the same minutes is OG you’re getting similar production with more games played.Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.
It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.
Plausible and compelling
I have suggested going after Ayton who is younger and better vs Mitch imo.
Quick trade is a bit trickier because he’s young, plays premium position and defends plus don’t like the Randle/OG/RJ trio together - to clunky/ sloppy. Have always assumed RJ or Randle would have to go if OG was coming in - maybe Randle to 3rd team or RJ directly to Raps.
Raptors have a FVV sized hole in the backcourt. I'm certain that Masai is going to demand IQ, or Grimes at the very least, in any OG trade.
LivingLegend wrote:Nalod wrote:MS wrote:OG for IQ and a conditional maybe. Although IQ is always healthy and if you play him the same minutes is OG you’re getting similar production with more games played.Ayton for Mitch, Fournier and McBride could be interesting. I like Mitch a lot put more offense is important. If you throw one of the worst first there you now have more offense similar rebounding but less rim protection.
It gives you more options offensively if you want to play hart at the four and have IQ, Donte, RJ out there.
Plausible and compelling
I have suggested going after Ayton who is younger and better vs Mitch imo.
Quick trade is a bit trickier because he’s young, plays premium position and defends plus don’t like the Randle/OG/RJ trio together - to clunky/ sloppy. Have always assumed RJ or Randle would have to go if OG was coming in - maybe Randle to 3rd team or RJ directly to Raps.
That one is tricky for me: "Better". Better defensively? Better motor? Dude got benched during finals for lack of effort. The Finals.
Better offensively? Sure.
Better and more impactful player relative to what you are also paying him and the cost it would take to trade for him? Not for me.