Knicks · Hart will sign for his max extension: 4 years, $81M (page 4)

Nalod @ 8/11/2023 2:56 PM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:Feel like Ian doesn't go out of bounds on making predictions that aren't very solid. Looks like IQ is on his way to an extension too, which is awesome.

Thats great news if true. I dont see both Grimes and IQ staying beyond this season. Just a hunch with the glut at guard. I dont believe IQ wants to spend the next few years coming off the bench. Might end up being a sign and trade.

why would IQ or Grimes go? Those guys will get resigned and the guy who goes will be RJ.

We are deep at guard thanks to Brunson and now DDV. Right now we a bit thin at the 3.
Im on the fence with IQ. This is kind of fair. Not conclusive, its asks questions: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink....

fishmike @ 8/11/2023 3:46 PM
Nalod wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:Feel like Ian doesn't go out of bounds on making predictions that aren't very solid. Looks like IQ is on his way to an extension too, which is awesome.

Thats great news if true. I dont see both Grimes and IQ staying beyond this season. Just a hunch with the glut at guard. I dont believe IQ wants to spend the next few years coming off the bench. Might end up being a sign and trade.

why would IQ or Grimes go? Those guys will get resigned and the guy who goes will be RJ.

We are deep at guard thanks to Brunson and now DDV. Right now we a bit thin at the 3.
Im on the fence with IQ. This is kind of fair. Not conclusive, its asks questions: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink....

that's a great price IMO. Literally if you wanted to find the next Brunson where you would look? A young dynamic guard, can play with or without the ball, can create his own shot (a most coveted NBA skill), impact player on defense, can play PG or SG.

This FO knows the team better than anyone. The resigned RJ because they had to. For all the criticism and his poor fit he's still got value in this league and can do some things. IF THEY RESIGN IQ it's because they WANT to, and that would excite me more than anything. If they trade him they werent sure. If they extend I would be thrilled.

IQ is the 3rd guard on a team that's built to play a ton of small ball. He's plus rebounder and defender. He's a ball mover. He can create off the dribble. He's a workaholic gym rat. This doesnt strike me as a guy you let slip away because we have Brunson, Grimes, DD or whoever else.

Also maybe we fight for a title the Larry Brown Piston route, with 2-3 all star ish guys and 5 others who are phucking ballers on both ends.


Brunson/IQ
Grimes/DD
RJ/JHart
Jules
Mitch/IHart

That's a young 9 who are (except IHart) locked up for the next 2 years. I would literally see how this group develops.

martin @ 8/11/2023 4:09 PM
I love it

Nalod @ 8/11/2023 4:45 PM
martin wrote:I love it

There is a lot to be said about patience. the best agents are master negotiators.
Leon knows this. Leon is this. Its not about raping or fucking over players or teams. its about leverage and valuations.
Knicks are playing a long game. Increase opportunity exposure (creation of luck) and roster flexibility.
Maybe they don't know were this all ends up let alone fans no matter how much we pretend.
Bottom line is FO has to know what the fuck they are doing. Either win or have methodical disciplined plan to get there.
We are not taking short cuts. But we can pounce when the time is right.
Way I see it, Ujiri, Portland, and Riley are all staring themselves down with deals and not budging. Toronto has Siakim and OG they need to move or resign.
ATL has a good idea where it wants to go. Portland are Miami are not blinking.
Meanwhile we building our dowry.

fishmike @ 8/11/2023 4:51 PM
martin wrote:I love it

I love it too. It's such a young/deep/tough squad. Is it an overachieving regular season team? Or a team with such depth they can wear you down and beat you up (see Cle series). Its a great question to look forward to. I expect us to hit the ground running and have an immediate identity. No .500 ball for 50 games while Thibs, Brunson, Jules and co figure things out. We know who's team it is, we how we need to play to win. Lets get it done and see how good these guys are and can be
Rookie @ 8/11/2023 5:21 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:I love it

I love it too. It's such a young/deep/tough squad. Is it an overachieving regular season team? Or a team with such depth they can wear you down and beat you up (see Cle series). Its a great question to look forward to. I expect us to hit the ground running and have an immediate identity. No .500 ball for 50 games while Thibs, Brunson, Jules and co figure things out. We know who's team it is, we how we need to play to win. Lets get it done and see how good these guys are and can be

The salary cap projection for 2024/25 is 136M. You have 124M there without the players listed in red or IQ, iHart, Sims and 1st rd picks cap holds I imagine they will extend or resign Grimes as well. And then there is the FA class in the summer of 2025. A lot of 1st tier players available that summer. We are projecting to be in the luxury tax with this squad. I love our guys and the front office is doing a great job of retaining them but I also am realistic about the cap and the new cba rules. Until teams figure out how to operate under or circumvent the new rules the cap has to be a serious consideration in roster construction

Nalod @ 8/12/2023 9:34 AM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:I love it

I love it too. It's such a young/deep/tough squad. Is it an overachieving regular season team? Or a team with such depth they can wear you down and beat you up (see Cle series). Its a great question to look forward to. I expect us to hit the ground running and have an immediate identity. No .500 ball for 50 games while Thibs, Brunson, Jules and co figure things out. We know who's team it is, we how we need to play to win. Lets get it done and see how good these guys are and can be

The salary cap projection for 2024/25 is 136M. You have 124M there without the players listed in red or IQ, iHart, Sims and 1st rd picks cap holds I imagine they will extend or resign Grimes as well. And then there is the FA class in the summer of 2025. A lot of 1st tier players available that summer. We are projecting to be in the luxury tax with this squad. I love our guys and the front office is doing a great job of retaining them but I also am realistic about the cap and the new cba rules. Until teams figure out how to operate under or circumvent the new rules the cap has to be a serious consideration in roster construction

WE either let them go and create cap space and risk losing them for nothing while at the mercy of rules that allow extensions for those tier 1 players and favor them staying iwth current teams.

Fact is IQ extended here or elsewhere does not diminish his trade value. In fact, him being signed might help. The talent with a price is quantifiable. With RJ, either inflation or him getting to the next level will determine him playing up to or exceeding his contract.

The FA in 2025 have some nice names but are up there in age. Im not predicting a thing but easy to type that we can guess, and hope, but in the end for big change some of our favorite names might be expendible and at the very least we have many things to argue.

Seems the NBA is creating parity with the rules and makes it harder for guys like Durant, Shaq and Lebron to walk as they devistated in the past. IF you want that freedom, you take the risk. Its possible. Teams can load up on assets and make trades. It might not help in creating dynasties unless you can grow it from within.

martin @ 8/12/2023 10:42 AM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:I love it

I love it too. It's such a young/deep/tough squad. Is it an overachieving regular season team? Or a team with such depth they can wear you down and beat you up (see Cle series). Its a great question to look forward to. I expect us to hit the ground running and have an immediate identity. No .500 ball for 50 games while Thibs, Brunson, Jules and co figure things out. We know who's team it is, we how we need to play to win. Lets get it done and see how good these guys are and can be

The salary cap projection for 2024/25 is 136M. You have 124M there without the players listed in red or IQ, iHart, Sims and 1st rd picks cap holds I imagine they will extend or resign Grimes as well. And then there is the FA class in the summer of 2025. A lot of 1st tier players available that summer. We are projecting to be in the luxury tax with this squad. I love our guys and the front office is doing a great job of retaining them but I also am realistic about the cap and the new cba rules. Until teams figure out how to operate under or circumvent the new rules the cap has to be a serious consideration in roster construction

Salary cap for this year, 2023/24 is $136M.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sets-salary...

I think they expect cap to rise by 10% yearly

Rookie @ 8/12/2023 10:53 AM
martin wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:I love it

I love it too. It's such a young/deep/tough squad. Is it an overachieving regular season team? Or a team with such depth they can wear you down and beat you up (see Cle series). Its a great question to look forward to. I expect us to hit the ground running and have an immediate identity. No .500 ball for 50 games while Thibs, Brunson, Jules and co figure things out. We know who's team it is, we how we need to play to win. Lets get it done and see how good these guys are and can be

The salary cap projection for 2024/25 is 136M. You have 124M there without the players listed in red or IQ, iHart, Sims and 1st rd picks cap holds I imagine they will extend or resign Grimes as well. And then there is the FA class in the summer of 2025. A lot of 1st tier players available that summer. We are projecting to be in the luxury tax with this squad. I love our guys and the front office is doing a great job of retaining them but I also am realistic about the cap and the new cba rules. Until teams figure out how to operate under or circumvent the new rules the cap has to be a serious consideration in roster construction

Salary cap for this year, 2023/24 is $136M.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sets-salary...

I think they expect cap to rise by 10% yearly

Good catch, thanks.

gradyandrew @ 8/12/2023 11:21 AM
With Fournier's 19 million coming off the cap Knicks will have some wiggle room to extend IQ and Hartenstein. It depends on how big of a contract IQ gets. Knicks should have something like 40 million to sign IHart and IQ without going over the luxury tax line.
Nalod @ 8/12/2023 12:52 PM
gradyandrew wrote:With Fournier's 19 million coming off the cap Knicks will have some wiggle room to extend IQ and Hartenstein. It depends on how big of a contract IQ gets. Knicks should have something like 40 million to sign IHart and IQ without going over the luxury tax line.

If they are productive players we can also move them for picks.
And fact is IHart might be looking and can command a bigger deal and he walks. He came as a FA and he can leave as one.
We cannot keep everyone or extract value for everyone either.
Fornier might just be a zero net gain.

stillafan @ 8/12/2023 2:08 PM
Garrett2010PSD wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:more than i'd like but overall with him opting in as a favor to us, it's 5/94m total which isn't too bad.

Agreed, but we really didn't have a choice.

His depth is critical here as I believe Knicks will eventually pull off a major trade and they will need him coming off the bench when guys like IQ and Grimes get dealt.

Hey Garrett,

Always have choices, no? We discussed this when he signed and we gave up a first, he was being signed, kind of simple math imo. The day he opted him we also stated that he would get max and hoped the FO would make the last year a team option, let him continue to earn it.

I love Hart and good for him and it won't hurt the team. With cap going up 10% max per year (technically 10% per year), his contract will look better and better.

Batter up, IQ on deck? I know Begley has stated IQ will be extended around Oct time frame, tick tock, big decision by the FO, another player I love but I do see DDV as a bit redundant and all signed up. We shall see what the Knicks FO has in mind.

As far as Hart with getting the team option, great job! If I had to add my 2 cents on IQ I may not extend him, leave his low salary to be included in a bigger deal if one comes available. I'm still eager to see how Thibs utilizes everyone. Summer is going quickly!

nycericanguy @ 8/12/2023 2:12 PM
stillafan wrote:
Garrett2010PSD wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:more than i'd like but overall with him opting in as a favor to us, it's 5/94m total which isn't too bad.

Agreed, but we really didn't have a choice.

His depth is critical here as I believe Knicks will eventually pull off a major trade and they will need him coming off the bench when guys like IQ and Grimes get dealt.

Hey Garrett,

Always have choices, no? We discussed this when he signed and we gave up a first, he was being signed, kind of simple math imo. The day he opted him we also stated that he would get max and hoped the FO would make the last year a team option, let him continue to earn it.

I love Hart and good for him and it won't hurt the team. With cap going up 10% max per year (technically 10% per year), his contract will look better and better.

Batter up, IQ on deck? I know Begley has stated IQ will be extended around Oct time frame, tick tock, big decision by the FO, another player I love but I do see DDV as a bit redundant and all signed up. We shall see what the Knicks FO has in mind.

As far as Hart with getting the team option, great job! If I had to add my 2 cents on IQ I may not extend him, leave his low salary to be included in a bigger deal if one comes available. I'm still eager to see how Thibs utilizes everyone. Summer is going quickly!

wasn't thrilled when I saw the initial Hart contract but this FO has a habit of leaking a higher figure and then we find out its less and or has TO's.

Hart at 4/70.9m total is a very solid deal. That 5th year in his age 32 or 33 season at $23m per year could have been rough.

stillafan @ 8/12/2023 2:24 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Feel like Ian doesn't go out of bounds on making predictions that aren't very solid. Looks like IQ is on his way to an extension too, which is awesome.

YES... this notion that we somehow cant resign IQ is nuts. You HAVE to see how IQ's arc plays out. He put up 22/5/5 as a starter in 21 games (winning record). Look at Brunson's progression and IQ's. What if IQ is better than Brunson? Both are crazy hard workers with high BB IQ. For the record Brunson also had a TERRIBLE playoffs vs. the Clippers before lighting up Spida 2x

When they are all all-stars we can worry about max players and cap issues.

I love your sentiment and agree this team has talent, but Brunny in 2021 againat the Clips? I thought he played pretty well? He only played 16.3m and shot 46.2% from three and only had 4TO's in 7 games?

I love IQ, love he is a two way player, but Brunny is just a superstar, if IQ can get anywhere close then damn good for us, that would be amazing.

I'm still curious what the FO will do, it's a huge decision your basically if extended IQ won't be traded even if a superstud becomes available to us. This is a very tough decision for any FO. Guess we will know in around 2 months.

stillafan @ 8/12/2023 2:39 PM
nycericanguy wrote:
stillafan wrote:
Garrett2010PSD wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:more than i'd like but overall with him opting in as a favor to us, it's 5/94m total which isn't too bad.

Agreed, but we really didn't have a choice.

His depth is critical here as I believe Knicks will eventually pull off a major trade and they will need him coming off the bench when guys like IQ and Grimes get dealt.

Hey Garrett,

Always have choices, no? We discussed this when he signed and we gave up a first, he was being signed, kind of simple math imo. The day he opted him we also stated that he would get max and hoped the FO would make the last year a team option, let him continue to earn it.

I love Hart and good for him and it won't hurt the team. With cap going up 10% max per year (technically 10% per year), his contract will look better and better.

Batter up, IQ on deck? I know Begley has stated IQ will be extended around Oct time frame, tick tock, big decision by the FO, another player I love but I do see DDV as a bit redundant and all signed up. We shall see what the Knicks FO has in mind.

As far as Hart with getting the team option, great job! If I had to add my 2 cents on IQ I may not extend him, leave his low salary to be included in a bigger deal if one comes available. I'm still eager to see how Thibs utilizes everyone. Summer is going quickly!

wasn't thrilled when I saw the initial Hart contract but this FO has a habit of leaking a higher figure and then we find out its less and or has TO's.

Hart at 4/70.9m total is a very solid deal. That 5th year in his age 32 or 33 season at $23m per year could have been rough.

Honestly even though Brunny is now the steal of steals, when we gave him that deal, I really hoped that it would not have had a Players option in it. That contract after two seasons is going to be very lucrative. I'm not sure this FO leaks much of anyting tbh lol,that is kind of on the media.

I'm beginning to feel this FO likes our roster as is, I'm not really like most on the DM train to the point it must happen. He's another player who will be in that lucrative contract and with Brunny here although DM would love to play here maybe we are better off? I also think Randle in year two with Jalen and no Obi chants is going to have a very good season, he'll break the bad, great, bad, great, trend have a very good season, even if its not allstar, he'll be very good but this time carry over into the playoffs which think what that does for us.

Love to see Mitch work with Hakeem or even a David Lee guy for just some foot work.

nycericanguy @ 8/12/2023 2:47 PM
stillafan wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:
stillafan wrote:
Garrett2010PSD wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:more than i'd like but overall with him opting in as a favor to us, it's 5/94m total which isn't too bad.

Agreed, but we really didn't have a choice.

His depth is critical here as I believe Knicks will eventually pull off a major trade and they will need him coming off the bench when guys like IQ and Grimes get dealt.

Hey Garrett,

Always have choices, no? We discussed this when he signed and we gave up a first, he was being signed, kind of simple math imo. The day he opted him we also stated that he would get max and hoped the FO would make the last year a team option, let him continue to earn it.

I love Hart and good for him and it won't hurt the team. With cap going up 10% max per year (technically 10% per year), his contract will look better and better.

Batter up, IQ on deck? I know Begley has stated IQ will be extended around Oct time frame, tick tock, big decision by the FO, another player I love but I do see DDV as a bit redundant and all signed up. We shall see what the Knicks FO has in mind.

As far as Hart with getting the team option, great job! If I had to add my 2 cents on IQ I may not extend him, leave his low salary to be included in a bigger deal if one comes available. I'm still eager to see how Thibs utilizes everyone. Summer is going quickly!

wasn't thrilled when I saw the initial Hart contract but this FO has a habit of leaking a higher figure and then we find out its less and or has TO's.

Hart at 4/70.9m total is a very solid deal. That 5th year in his age 32 or 33 season at $23m per year could have been rough.

Honestly even though Brunny is now the steal of steals, when we gave him that deal, I really hoped that it would not have had a Players option in it. That contract after two seasons is going to be very lucrative. I'm not sure this FO leaks much of anyting tbh lol,that is kind of on the media.

I'm beginning to feel this FO likes our roster as is, I'm not really like most on the DM train to the point it must happen. He's another player who will be in that lucrative contract and with Brunny here although DM would love to play here maybe we are better off? I also think Randle in year two with Jalen and no Obi chants is going to have a very good season, he'll break the bad, great, bad, great, trend have a very good season, even if its not allstar, he'll be very good but this time carry over into the playoffs which think what that does for us.

Love to see Mitch work with Hakeem or even a David Lee guy for just some foot work.

thats one silver lining to losing Obi is that maybe its a bit of a monkey off Randle's back.

As for Brunson, well he was going to get paid again whether it's in 2 years or 3.

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