Knicks · OT Vivek Ramaswamy (page 20)

ESOMKnicks wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:
The article suggests no collusion with the Libertarian party. Rand might not have been sold on the party, but the party was sold on her. Just google "Koch Brothers and Ayn Rand". They worshipped her.

Both the Libertarian Party and Ayn Rand built a philosophy around extreme selfishness. The point of the article was to trace Rand's influence today, which runs through the Libertarian Party and the GOP.

How do we know this? Because the former President said so. Because Paul Ryan the former speaker of the house, the man who pushed through one of the biggest tax cuts for the rich in US history said so. And countless other GOP politicians. We see it in their policies, and their willingness to do the biddding of billionaires over almost everyone else.

If you cant see that or unwilling to accept this fact, its entirely on you.

I have googled exactly the phrase, and I am going to need some further help from you on this. All I found were hearsay characterizations by ideological opponents of free market ideas. Have there been any first-hand statements from the Koch brothers saying that they worshipped Rand?

Your claim that the Libertarian Party builds a philosophy around extreme selfishness is untrue. On the contrary, charitable giving and voluntary work are among the key components at the heart of the libertarian world view. https://viaction.org/

I have read up on Paul Ryan, and I do not understand, how can you call someone so adamantly opposed to abortion rights or same sex marriage a libertarian? Not only that, but he also explicitly disavowed Rand's philosophies. So why does he figure in this whole thing at all?

From Wikipedia:

The Ayn Rand Institute (ARI) describes itself as "a non-profit organization headquartered in Irvine, California, works to introduce young people to Ayn Rand's novels, to support scholarship and research based on her ideas, and to promote the principles of reason, rational self-interest, individual rights and laissez-faire capitalism to the widest possible audience."[1]

Ties to the Koch Brothers

Grants received from the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation:

$4,800 in 2015 $42,600 in 2014

Grants received from the Claude R. Lambe Foundation:

$25,000 in 2012 $50,000 in 2011 $25,000 in 2010 $25,000 in 2009

ARI has also received funding from Donors Capital Fund. Donors Capital Fund, as well as DonorsTrust have been described as "two funds that have been closely tied to the Kochs but which obscure the percentage of their grants coming from Koch money."[7] (See here for a complete list of DonorsTrust and Donors Capital Fund grant recipients.)

$50,000 in 2013 $325,000 in 2012 $25,000 in 2011 $25,000 in 2010

The Ayn Rand Institute is a partner organization of the Charles Koch Institute.

GustavBahler wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:
The article suggests no collusion with the Libertarian party. Rand might not have been sold on the party, but the party was sold on her. Just google "Koch Brothers and Ayn Rand". They worshipped her.

Both the Libertarian Party and Ayn Rand built a philosophy around extreme selfishness. The point of the article was to trace Rand's influence today, which runs through the Libertarian Party and the GOP.

How do we know this? Because the former President said so. Because Paul Ryan the former speaker of the house, the man who pushed through one of the biggest tax cuts for the rich in US history said so. And countless other GOP politicians. We see it in their policies, and their willingness to do the biddding of billionaires over almost everyone else.

If you cant see that or unwilling to accept this fact, its entirely on you.

I have googled exactly the phrase, and I am going to need some further help from you on this. All I found were hearsay characterizations by ideological opponents of free market ideas. Have there been any first-hand statements from the Koch brothers saying that they worshipped Rand?

Your claim that the Libertarian Party builds a philosophy around extreme selfishness is untrue. On the contrary, charitable giving and voluntary work are among the key components at the heart of the libertarian world view. https://viaction.org/

I have read up on Paul Ryan, and I do not understand, how can you call someone so adamantly opposed to abortion rights or same sex marriage a libertarian? Not only that, but he also explicitly disavowed Rand's philosophies. So why does he figure in this whole thing at all?

From Wikipedia:

The Ayn Rand Institute (ARI) describes itself as "a non-profit organization headquartered in Irvine, California, works to introduce young people to Ayn Rand's novels, to support scholarship and research based on her ideas, and to promote the principles of reason, rational self-interest, individual rights and laissez-faire capitalism to the widest possible audience."[1]

Ties to the Koch Brothers

Grants received from the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation:

$4,800 in 2015 $42,600 in 2014

Grants received from the Claude R. Lambe Foundation:

$25,000 in 2012 $50,000 in 2011 $25,000 in 2010 $25,000 in 2009

ARI has also received funding from Donors Capital Fund. Donors Capital Fund, as well as DonorsTrust have been described as "two funds that have been closely tied to the Kochs but which obscure the percentage of their grants coming from Koch money."[7] (See here for a complete list of DonorsTrust and Donors Capital Fund grant recipients.)

$50,000 in 2013 $325,000 in 2012 $25,000 in 2011 $25,000 in 2010

The Ayn Rand Institute is a partner organization of the Charles Koch Institute.

Oh my God! What a mammoth donation of $42K in a single year! Only to be eclipsed by a generational fortune of $4,800 the following year!

You for real?

BRIGGS wrote:Has anyone heard this guy talk?
To me he sounds like the best presidential candidate in 25 years.
Hes so well spoken and keeps to facts and common sense without he other BS
Hes republican but really if you listen to him hes centric and thats what the US needs--a young highly intelligent centric individual who is out to help our country.

Best candidate in 25 years is a con artist who swindled investors out of $25 million in a pharmaceutical pump and dump scheme and has zero experience.

SupremeCommander wrote:

He speaks the part, looks the part to me

Over the past couple months he has trended better than any other candidate

I think if Trump doesn't show up, debate, and discredit this guy, a bunch of people will vote for him

I have a better shot at being the republican nominee

The guy has used car salesman vibes.

Why not run for a congressional seat? The guy is an opportunist. You would think that getting saddled with a fascist clown like Trump, who knew nothing and didn't/doesn't care about the country or the Constitution, would make Republicans think twice about someone like this guy.

He is all about being Trump's VP candidate or getting an administrative job. If you can't be critical of a twice impeached 4x indicted insurrection instigator, why the hell are you running for the position?!

I doubt if he's a centrist...he's like Trump, he will pander to MAGAts. I doubt if he has any deep seated political values (also like Trump), you cannot trust this guy to do the right thing.

My BS detector started sounding its alarm as soon as I saw this guy. If you ever shake his hand, be sure to check for your wallet, but only after wiping the slime from your hand.

CleaverGreene wrote:The guy has used car salesman vibes.

Why not run for a congressional seat? The guy is an opportunist. You would think that getting saddled with a fascist clown like Trump, who knew nothing and didn't/doesn't care about the country or the Constitution, would make Republicans think twice about someone like this guy.

He is all about being Trump's VP candidate or getting an administrative job. If you can't be critical of a twice impeached 4x indicted insurrection instigator, why the hell are you running for the position?!

I doubt if he's a centrist...he's like Trump, he will pander to MAGAts. I doubt if he has any deep seated political values (also like Trump), you cannot trust this guy to do the right thing.

My BS detector started sounding its alarm as soon as I saw this guy. If you ever shake his hand, be sure to check for your wallet, but only after wiping the slime from your hand.

same reason Trump didnt. They want nothing to do with governing or having any responsibility for the people or country. They are in it for personal gain.

What's saddening is how little disinformation it takes for 40%+ of murica to say "this is our guy"

Oh well... Go Knicks. Hopefully we get a title before it all burns down

My name is firefly and I endorse this message.

fishmike wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:The guy has used car salesman vibes.

Why not run for a congressional seat? The guy is an opportunist. You would think that getting saddled with a fascist clown like Trump, who knew nothing and didn't/doesn't care about the country or the Constitution, would make Republicans think twice about someone like this guy.

He is all about being Trump's VP candidate or getting an administrative job. If you can't be critical of a twice impeached 4x indicted insurrection instigator, why the hell are you running for the position?!

I doubt if he's a centrist...he's like Trump, he will pander to MAGAts. I doubt if he has any deep seated political values (also like Trump), you cannot trust this guy to do the right thing.

My BS detector started sounding its alarm as soon as I saw this guy. If you ever shake his hand, be sure to check for your wallet, but only after wiping the slime from your hand.

same reason Trump didnt. They want nothing to do with governing or having any responsibility for the people or country. They are in it for personal gain.

What's saddening is how little disinformation it takes for 40%+ of murica to say "this is our guy"

Oh well... Go Knicks. Hopefully we get a title before it all burns down

Nalod JR:
I won't vote for trump, and I don't like Biden!!!
Nalod:
You won't vote then?
Nalod Jr:
Not for president! I don't like either.
Nalod:
Can you vote for "what is best for the country" instead?
Nalod Jr:
I suppose. but.......
Nalod:
No buts, its the better of two evils.
Nalod Jr:
But its my vote, I can do what I want with it!
Nalod:
Not about you, whats best for the country! By the way, in hindsight that what made us great once upon a time.
it was not always executed but there was an ideal. If you gave up your life for the country, you did it for the greater good.
Its not like that now. Its about values, Religion, tolerance, intolerance, and what does or does not offend you.
Nalod Jr:
But I don't like Biden!
Nalod:
I know, I don't either, but whats best for the country then?

fishmike wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:The guy has used car salesman vibes.

Why not run for a congressional seat? The guy is an opportunist. You would think that getting saddled with a fascist clown like Trump, who knew nothing and didn't/doesn't care about the country or the Constitution, would make Republicans think twice about someone like this guy.

He is all about being Trump's VP candidate or getting an administrative job. If you can't be critical of a twice impeached 4x indicted insurrection instigator, why the hell are you running for the position?!

I doubt if he's a centrist...he's like Trump, he will pander to MAGAts. I doubt if he has any deep seated political values (also like Trump), you cannot trust this guy to do the right thing.

My BS detector started sounding its alarm as soon as I saw this guy. If you ever shake his hand, be sure to check for your wallet, but only after wiping the slime from your hand.

same reason Trump didnt. They want nothing to do with governing or having any responsibility for the people or country. They are in it for personal gain.

What's saddening is how little disinformation it takes for 40%+ of murica to say "this is our guy"

Oh well... Go Knicks. Hopefully we get a title before it all burns down

A nation of fools, we are.

Yeah...I was thinking that about the Jets, too.

BRIGGS wrote:Has anyone heard this guy talk?
To me he sounds like the best presidential candidate in 25 years.
Hes so well spoken and keeps to facts and common sense without he other BS
Hes republican but really if you listen to him hes centric and thats what the US needs--a young highly intelligent centric individual who is out to help our country.

Briggs, you ready to retract this?
He is “Centric”? To what?

President Marjorie Green.

Alpha1971 wrote:President Marjorie Green.

You get a Jewish space lazer, you get a Jewish space lazer, EVERYBODY GETS A JEWISH SPACE LAZER

I don't understand Conservatives to be very honest. I also don't understand liberals who trust the Democrat party but with Conservatives it's the whole philosophy that just doesn't add up.

For example they always talk about being completely Pro-Capitalism but then they love Oliver Anthony who sang a song that's wildly against it. There is no such thing as "bullshit pay" if you believe in true Capitalism because the market has already dictated your worth. Under Capitalism, if your work is worth more, then either your company will give you a raise because it won't be able to find someone for cheaper or someone else will pay you more. If that doesn't happen, the market has organically determined you currently are what you make.

I also hear them complaining about the big companies like Blackrock and Vanguard etc and the companies that are buying all this real estate and driving up the prices on homes. But stopping them from doing that is regulation...which they are against. If you're letting capitalism take it's course, there is no complaining about any of that.

There was also so much Conservative media that had their panties in a twist about the UPS workers getting the deal that they got, even though that too is Capitalism doing its thing. If UPS could find cheaper good labor, they would not have made that deal. Therefore, the UPS workers simply got what they are worth. Good for them.

Specifically with Vivek and Trump...when it comes to Trump they say who cares who he is as a person, it's all about policy. But Vivek's literaly first of his "Ten Truths" that he's campaigning on is "God is Real" which has NOTHING to do with policy! Take a good hard look, we have had PLENTY of Presidents that were horrible that believed in God.

There's just so many hypocrisies and voting against their own interests to follow the cults that are either Trump or Conservative media that the actual policies are falling completely by the wayside.

In the fraud case against the Trump organization, were any of his lenders party to the suit?

homeskillitprigioni wrote:I don't understand Conservatives to be very honest. I also don't understand liberals who trust the Democrat party but with Conservatives it's the whole philosophy that just doesn't add up.

For example they always talk about being completely Pro-Capitalism but then they love Oliver Anthony who sang a song that's wildly against it. There is no such thing as "bullshit pay" if you believe in true Capitalism because the market has already dictated your worth. Under Capitalism, if your work is worth more, then either your company will give you a raise because it won't be able to find someone for cheaper or someone else will pay you more. If that doesn't happen, the market has organically determined you currently are what you make.

I also hear them complaining about the big companies like Blackrock and Vanguard etc and the companies that are buying all this real estate and driving up the prices on homes. But stopping them from doing that is regulation...which they are against. If you're letting capitalism take it's course, there is no complaining about any of that.

There was also so much Conservative media that had their panties in a twist about the UPS workers getting the deal that they got, even though that too is Capitalism doing its thing. If UPS could find cheaper good labor, they would not have made that deal. Therefore, the UPS workers simply got what they are worth. Good for them.

Specifically with Vivek and Trump...when it comes to Trump they say who cares who he is as a person, it's all about policy. But Vivek's literaly first of his "Ten Truths" that he's campaigning on is "God is Real" which has NOTHING to do with policy! Take a good hard look, we have had PLENTY of Presidents that were horrible that believed in God.

There's just so many hypocrisies and voting against their own interests to follow the cults that are either Trump or Conservative media that the actual policies are falling completely by the wayside.

Likely because many are really Populists and not true conservatives.

foosballnick wrote:

homeskillitprigioni wrote:I don't understand Conservatives to be very honest. I also don't understand liberals who trust the Democrat party but with Conservatives it's the whole philosophy that just doesn't add up.

For example they always talk about being completely Pro-Capitalism but then they love Oliver Anthony who sang a song that's wildly against it. There is no such thing as "bullshit pay" if you believe in true Capitalism because the market has already dictated your worth. Under Capitalism, if your work is worth more, then either your company will give you a raise because it won't be able to find someone for cheaper or someone else will pay you more. If that doesn't happen, the market has organically determined you currently are what you make.

I also hear them complaining about the big companies like Blackrock and Vanguard etc and the companies that are buying all this real estate and driving up the prices on homes. But stopping them from doing that is regulation...which they are against. If you're letting capitalism take it's course, there is no complaining about any of that.

There was also so much Conservative media that had their panties in a twist about the UPS workers getting the deal that they got, even though that too is Capitalism doing its thing. If UPS could find cheaper good labor, they would not have made that deal. Therefore, the UPS workers simply got what they are worth. Good for them.

Specifically with Vivek and Trump...when it comes to Trump they say who cares who he is as a person, it's all about policy. But Vivek's literaly first of his "Ten Truths" that he's campaigning on is "God is Real" which has NOTHING to do with policy! Take a good hard look, we have had PLENTY of Presidents that were horrible that believed in God.

There's just so many hypocrisies and voting against their own interests to follow the cults that are either Trump or Conservative media that the actual policies are falling completely by the wayside.

Likely because many are really Populists and not true conservatives.

Does Populist mean as smart as a pile of dung?

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

homeskillitprigioni wrote:I don't understand Conservatives to be very honest. I also don't understand liberals who trust the Democrat party but with Conservatives it's the whole philosophy that just doesn't add up.

For example they always talk about being completely Pro-Capitalism but then they love Oliver Anthony who sang a song that's wildly against it. There is no such thing as "bullshit pay" if you believe in true Capitalism because the market has already dictated your worth. Under Capitalism, if your work is worth more, then either your company will give you a raise because it won't be able to find someone for cheaper or someone else will pay you more. If that doesn't happen, the market has organically determined you currently are what you make.

I also hear them complaining about the big companies like Blackrock and Vanguard etc and the companies that are buying all this real estate and driving up the prices on homes. But stopping them from doing that is regulation...which they are against. If you're letting capitalism take it's course, there is no complaining about any of that.

There was also so much Conservative media that had their panties in a twist about the UPS workers getting the deal that they got, even though that too is Capitalism doing its thing. If UPS could find cheaper good labor, they would not have made that deal. Therefore, the UPS workers simply got what they are worth. Good for them.

Specifically with Vivek and Trump...when it comes to Trump they say who cares who he is as a person, it's all about policy. But Vivek's literaly first of his "Ten Truths" that he's campaigning on is "God is Real" which has NOTHING to do with policy! Take a good hard look, we have had PLENTY of Presidents that were horrible that believed in God.

There's just so many hypocrisies and voting against their own interests to follow the cults that are either Trump or Conservative media that the actual policies are falling completely by the wayside.

Likely because many are really Populists and not true conservatives.

Does Populist mean as smart as a pile of dung?

I try to not underestimate motives, intelligence and cunning - especially when it comes to emerging Autocrats interested only in power. Some might say that all politicians crave power, but the difference with Populists is that they generally have no positional nor moral anchor. They will float with the wind and focus mainly to appeal to any "grievance of the day" to rile up the majority voting base mainly against the emergence of any minority positions or interests.

If you look at Vivek's positions, they are essentially all populist.

The following video explains modern populism in laymans terms. I especially like the quote from one of the most recent viewer comments:

“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

Did we lose Briggs?

Vivek, who wants to end birthright citizenship for children of immigrants, himself is a birthright citizen.

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

homeskillitprigioni wrote:I don't understand Conservatives to be very honest. I also don't understand liberals who trust the Democrat party but with Conservatives it's the whole philosophy that just doesn't add up.

For example they always talk about being completely Pro-Capitalism but then they love Oliver Anthony who sang a song that's wildly against it. There is no such thing as "bullshit pay" if you believe in true Capitalism because the market has already dictated your worth. Under Capitalism, if your work is worth more, then either your company will give you a raise because it won't be able to find someone for cheaper or someone else will pay you more. If that doesn't happen, the market has organically determined you currently are what you make.

I also hear them complaining about the big companies like Blackrock and Vanguard etc and the companies that are buying all this real estate and driving up the prices on homes. But stopping them from doing that is regulation...which they are against. If you're letting capitalism take it's course, there is no complaining about any of that.

There was also so much Conservative media that had their panties in a twist about the UPS workers getting the deal that they got, even though that too is Capitalism doing its thing. If UPS could find cheaper good labor, they would not have made that deal. Therefore, the UPS workers simply got what they are worth. Good for them.

Specifically with Vivek and Trump...when it comes to Trump they say who cares who he is as a person, it's all about policy. But Vivek's literaly first of his "Ten Truths" that he's campaigning on is "God is Real" which has NOTHING to do with policy! Take a good hard look, we have had PLENTY of Presidents that were horrible that believed in God.

There's just so many hypocrisies and voting against their own interests to follow the cults that are either Trump or Conservative media that the actual policies are falling completely by the wayside.

Likely because many are really Populists and not true conservatives.

Does Populist mean as smart as a pile of dung?

I try to not underestimate motives, intelligence and cunning - especially when it comes to emerging Autocrats interested only in power. Some might say that all politicians crave power, but the difference with Populists is that they generally have no positional nor moral anchor. They will float with the wind and focus mainly to appeal to any "grievance of the day" to rile up the majority voting base mainly against the emergence of any minority positions or interests.

If you look at Vivek's positions, they are essentially all populist.

The following video explains modern populism in laymans terms. I especially like the quote from one of the most recent viewer comments:

“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

Taking away the right to vote for tens of millions of Americans for the crime of being in the age bracket 18-25 is populisty

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

homeskillitprigioni wrote:I don't understand Conservatives to be very honest. I also don't understand liberals who trust the Democrat party but with Conservatives it's the whole philosophy that just doesn't add up.

For example they always talk about being completely Pro-Capitalism but then they love Oliver Anthony who sang a song that's wildly against it. There is no such thing as "bullshit pay" if you believe in true Capitalism because the market has already dictated your worth. Under Capitalism, if your work is worth more, then either your company will give you a raise because it won't be able to find someone for cheaper or someone else will pay you more. If that doesn't happen, the market has organically determined you currently are what you make.

I also hear them complaining about the big companies like Blackrock and Vanguard etc and the companies that are buying all this real estate and driving up the prices on homes. But stopping them from doing that is regulation...which they are against. If you're letting capitalism take it's course, there is no complaining about any of that.

There was also so much Conservative media that had their panties in a twist about the UPS workers getting the deal that they got, even though that too is Capitalism doing its thing. If UPS could find cheaper good labor, they would not have made that deal. Therefore, the UPS workers simply got what they are worth. Good for them.

Specifically with Vivek and Trump...when it comes to Trump they say who cares who he is as a person, it's all about policy. But Vivek's literaly first of his "Ten Truths" that he's campaigning on is "God is Real" which has NOTHING to do with policy! Take a good hard look, we have had PLENTY of Presidents that were horrible that believed in God.

There's just so many hypocrisies and voting against their own interests to follow the cults that are either Trump or Conservative media that the actual policies are falling completely by the wayside.

Likely because many are really Populists and not true conservatives.

Does Populist mean as smart as a pile of dung?

Yes