Rookie wrote:3 years of not letting Obi play through mistakes. The relationship between Thibs and Obi looked irreparable after year 2. Who knows, maybe Thibs just used him as an example to keep all the other yoots on the path. Year 3 the situation was untenable and Obi had to go. The return is a joke. The summer before we were rumored to be as=king 2 FRP's. Obi was worth more than a salary dump. The entire situation was mismanaged which is what chafes me. Obi has been showing signs of finally figuring it out. Just in the knick of time at the ripe old age of 26.
Thibs has earned benefit of the doubt. He’s proven to be an elite developer of talent and an elite identity builder. Obi didn’t fit what he wanted, there can be a myriad of reasons for that. Obi had a great few games in the series but he’s been the same underwhelming Obi all season for Indy.
franco12@ 5/6/2024 7:57 AM
DLeethal wrote:
Rookie wrote:3 years of not letting Obi play through mistakes. The relationship between Thibs and Obi looked irreparable after year 2. Who knows, maybe Thibs just used him as an example to keep all the other yoots on the path. Year 3 the situation was untenable and Obi had to go. The return is a joke. The summer before we were rumored to be as=king 2 FRP's. Obi was worth more than a salary dump. The entire situation was mismanaged which is what chafes me. Obi has been showing signs of finally figuring it out. Just in the knick of time at the ripe old age of 26.
Thibs has earned benefit of the doubt. He’s proven to be an elite developer of talent and an elite identity builder. Obi didn’t fit what he wanted, there can be a myriad of reasons for that. Obi had a great few games in the series but he’s been the same underwhelming Obi all season for Indy.
Exactly - we all think Obi should have been more with his athleticism and skills that he showed- but Indy did start him and then he found a better role on the bench. He is giving them great production in limited minutes.
Thibs didn't hold him back, no more than Kevin Knox was held back or Frank or DSjr.
There are players that for whatever reason, show flashes- but then get exposed and are not ever able to take a next step in their career.
MaTT4281@ 5/6/2024 9:57 AM
I also thought we could've gotten more for Obi at the time, but evidently we couldn't find a better offer or we'd have taken it. We had a deadline to meet to sign Donte. Net net, we came out better because of it.
Knicks will win the first 2 games of this series at the Garden on the backs of defense and the Nova chemistry, but Obi going to have 1 or 2 highlight dunks, so we'll continue to gripe. Can't see the forest for the trees.
Loved Obi, loved IQ, loved RJ. But winning is fun. Looking forward to the Obi/Hart matchup.
Rookie@ 5/6/2024 10:55 AM
DLeethal wrote:
Rookie wrote:3 years of not letting Obi play through mistakes. The relationship between Thibs and Obi looked irreparable after year 2. Who knows, maybe Thibs just used him as an example to keep all the other yoots on the path. Year 3 the situation was untenable and Obi had to go. The return is a joke. The summer before we were rumored to be as=king 2 FRP's. Obi was worth more than a salary dump. The entire situation was mismanaged which is what chafes me. Obi has been showing signs of finally figuring it out. Just in the knick of time at the ripe old age of 26.
Thibs has earned benefit of the doubt. He’s proven to be an elite developer of talent and an elite identity builder. Obi didn’t fit what he wanted, there can be a myriad of reasons for that. Obi had a great few games in the series but he’s been the same underwhelming Obi all season for Indy.
I don't mean to nit pick here, but I wouldn't call Obi, IQ, RJ or QG Elite. The jury isn't out on those players but if they do become elite, it will be under the development of another coach and not Thibs.
Rookie@ 5/6/2024 11:11 AM
MaTT4281 wrote:I also thought we could've gotten more for Obi at the time, but evidently we couldn't find a better offer or we'd have taken it. We had a deadline to meet to sign Donte. Net net, we came out better because of it.
Knicks will win the first 2 games of this series at the Garden on the backs of defense and the Nova chemistry, but Obi going to have 1 or 2 highlight dunks, so we'll continue to gripe. Can't see the forest for the trees.
Loved Obi, loved IQ, loved RJ. But winning is fun. Looking forward to the Obi/Hart matchup.
If Kelly POubre can slip behind our defense with wide open back door cuts you know Obi is going to fond the back door
KnickDanger@ 5/6/2024 11:35 AM
The idea that we could have gotten more for Obi confounds me. Is the implication that the FO intentionally ignored better deals? Anyway, nothing against Obi, I bet he gets a nice welcome at the Garden. At first.
martin@ 5/6/2024 11:57 AM
Rookie wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
Rookie wrote:3 years of not letting Obi play through mistakes. The relationship between Thibs and Obi looked irreparable after year 2. Who knows, maybe Thibs just used him as an example to keep all the other yoots on the path. Year 3 the situation was untenable and Obi had to go. The return is a joke. The summer before we were rumored to be as=king 2 FRP's. Obi was worth more than a salary dump. The entire situation was mismanaged which is what chafes me. Obi has been showing signs of finally figuring it out. Just in the knick of time at the ripe old age of 26.
Thibs has earned benefit of the doubt. He’s proven to be an elite developer of talent and an elite identity builder. Obi didn’t fit what he wanted, there can be a myriad of reasons for that. Obi had a great few games in the series but he’s been the same underwhelming Obi all season for Indy.
I don't mean to nit pick here, but I wouldn't call Obi, IQ, RJ or QG Elite. The jury isn't out on those players but if they do become elite, it will be under the development of another coach and not Thibs.
Elite developer, not develop a player into being elite. Big diff
DLeethal@ 5/6/2024 12:09 PM
Rookie wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
Rookie wrote:3 years of not letting Obi play through mistakes. The relationship between Thibs and Obi looked irreparable after year 2. Who knows, maybe Thibs just used him as an example to keep all the other yoots on the path. Year 3 the situation was untenable and Obi had to go. The return is a joke. The summer before we were rumored to be as=king 2 FRP's. Obi was worth more than a salary dump. The entire situation was mismanaged which is what chafes me. Obi has been showing signs of finally figuring it out. Just in the knick of time at the ripe old age of 26.
Thibs has earned benefit of the doubt. He’s proven to be an elite developer of talent and an elite identity builder. Obi didn’t fit what he wanted, there can be a myriad of reasons for that. Obi had a great few games in the series but he’s been the same underwhelming Obi all season for Indy.
I don't mean to nit pick here, but I wouldn't call Obi, IQ, RJ or QG Elite. The jury isn't out on those players but if they do become elite, it will be under the development of another coach and not Thibs.
I didn't say he developed any of those guys into elite players. I'm saying his track record of getting players to play by far their best basketball under his tutelage is elite. Almost everyone gets better playing under Thibs. And those that don't probably have a problem with themselves and not vice versa.
DLeethal@ 5/6/2024 12:11 PM
KnickDanger wrote:The idea that we could have gotten more for Obi confounds me. Is the implication that the FO intentionally ignored better deals? Anyway, nothing against Obi, I bet he gets a nice welcome at the Garden. At first.
Ehhh I don't think he will. Knicks fans are not playing games this playoff run. He will get booed because he wanted to leave the team.
Nalod@ 5/6/2024 12:17 PM
DLeethal wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:The idea that we could have gotten more for Obi confounds me. Is the implication that the FO intentionally ignored better deals? Anyway, nothing against Obi, I bet he gets a nice welcome at the Garden. At first.
Ehhh I don't think he will. Knicks fans are not playing games this playoff run. He will get booed because he wanted to leave the team.
Hope fan base is better than that.
Rookie@ 5/6/2024 12:27 PM
DLeethal wrote:
Rookie wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
Rookie wrote:3 years of not letting Obi play through mistakes. The relationship between Thibs and Obi looked irreparable after year 2. Who knows, maybe Thibs just used him as an example to keep all the other yoots on the path. Year 3 the situation was untenable and Obi had to go. The return is a joke. The summer before we were rumored to be as=king 2 FRP's. Obi was worth more than a salary dump. The entire situation was mismanaged which is what chafes me. Obi has been showing signs of finally figuring it out. Just in the knick of time at the ripe old age of 26.
Thibs has earned benefit of the doubt. He’s proven to be an elite developer of talent and an elite identity builder. Obi didn’t fit what he wanted, there can be a myriad of reasons for that. Obi had a great few games in the series but he’s been the same underwhelming Obi all season for Indy.
I don't mean to nit pick here, but I wouldn't call Obi, IQ, RJ or QG Elite. The jury isn't out on those players but if they do become elite, it will be under the development of another coach and not Thibs.
I didn't say he developed any of those guys into elite players. I'm saying his track record of getting players to play by far their best basketball under his tutelage is elite. Almost everyone gets better playing under Thibs. And those that don't probably have a problem with themselves and not vice versa.
So like better than they were in college? Doesn't every team, coach and assistant coach in the NBA do the same thing? What makes Thibs Elite at developing college players into NBA players? Just being the devils advocate here. With Thibs long tenure in coaching there are no championships. To be in the Elite category wouldn't that be a bench mark? Maybe I'm getting too far into the weeds here but I don't see elite development. Thibs likes a certain type of player character. More of an old school foundation. He traded all of those kids for older players that were developed by someone else. Literally the only 2 players on the team developed by Thibs are Mitch and Deuce. Mitch has added absolutely zero t his game. He has gotten stronger and developed a man body, that's not attributable to Thibs. Deuce after years of practice has started making threes instead of missing them. Everything else was already there. He kept him glued to the bench until the misses turned into makes. That take thousands of hours in the gym. That is ALL Deuce. I think Elite developer of talent is overstated.
Rookie@ 5/6/2024 1:01 PM
Just wanted to add here on Obi's development. He clearly wasn't allowed to dribble the basketball. He was only allowed to shoot it. If he wasn't open enough then he was to pass it. He was parked in the corner for the most part. Defensively he never really grasped the teams defensive concepts. He was always the one out of position on switches sending the team scrambling to recover. That never changed in 3 years here. If Obi dribbled - bench. If he took a bad shot - bench. If he messed up on defense - bench. Yup, that right there is some kinda elite development. I'm not saying Obi cam across as the most high IQ player, but Thibs crushed his soul. He traded him for a bag of M&M's. It was circled that Obi was WWW's pick and him and Thibs disagreed to the point the year we missed the playoffs there were rumblings Thibs was on the hot seat. Thibs didn't really like Reddish so he barely gave him an opportunity. Knox - jettisoned. I'm not saying Thibs was wrong about any of these young players, but if he doesn't like you it can seem very personal. Like, he won't ever even talk to you - like you don't exist personal.
Nalod@ 5/6/2024 1:33 PM
Rookie wrote:Just wanted to add here on Obi's development. He clearly wasn't allowed to dribble the basketball. He was only allowed to shoot it. If he wasn't open enough then he was to pass it. He was parked in the corner for the most part. Defensively he never really grasped the teams defensive concepts. He was always the one out of position on switches sending the team scrambling to recover. That never changed in 3 years here. If Obi dribbled - bench. If he took a bad shot - bench. If he messed up on defense - bench. Yup, that right there is some kinda elite development. I'm not saying Obi cam across as the most high IQ player, but Thibs crushed his soul. He traded him for a bag of M&M's. It was circled that Obi was WWW's pick and him and Thibs disagreed to the point the year we missed the playoffs there were rumblings Thibs was on the hot seat. Thibs didn't really like Reddish so he barely gave him an opportunity. Knox - jettisoned. I'm not saying Thibs was wrong about any of these young players, but if he doesn't like you it can seem very personal. Like, he won't ever even talk to you - like you don't exist personal.
Your not wrong, and Thibs is also never 100% correct. YOu see how much all these guys are getting paid? This is cut throat business. Obi was playing for Randles job. Randle got better at the same time. Thibs is not a warm fuzzy guy. He expects NBA players to perform, to execute and if you don't do the job "next man up". As for "elite or not", lets admit we have not seen development here for a really really long time. What knicks have done is kind of normal.
But......the secret sauce is Randle who was a good NBA player and now allstar and All NBA twice under Thibs. Jalen? He was good, he put in the work. They all do BTW, but he was not that in Dallas? IQ? He was the right make up to draft and take what Thibs threw at him. He outperformed his draft status and will get paid. RJ is a tougher call. He was 3rd over all pick. If he has room to breath in Toronto and really shines up then Thibs greats more credit. He built this kids foundation if his defense keeps improving.
Its not just Thibs, its Johnny Bryant and the rest of the staff. Credit "Knicks". I think Knicks have done a very good job rebuilding this franchise thru picks, who became trades in some cases, FA's, and thru trades.
I think Mitch was became great at some things because Thibs did not develop his offense game. IHart is better under thibs than before. Credit to all.
MaTT4281@ 5/6/2024 5:30 PM
Rookie wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:I also thought we could've gotten more for Obi at the time, but evidently we couldn't find a better offer or we'd have taken it. We had a deadline to meet to sign Donte. Net net, we came out better because of it.
Knicks will win the first 2 games of this series at the Garden on the backs of defense and the Nova chemistry, but Obi going to have 1 or 2 highlight dunks, so we'll continue to gripe. Can't see the forest for the trees.
Loved Obi, loved IQ, loved RJ. But winning is fun. Looking forward to the Obi/Hart matchup.
If Kelly POubre can slip behind our defense with wide open back door cuts you know Obi is going to fond the back door
Can't wait for Carlisle's reaction after - multiple times over this series - of Obi running down court for the break, only for Hart or Mitch to snag the *another* offensive board.
Nalod@ 5/7/2024 9:22 AM
MaTT4281 wrote:
Rookie wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:I also thought we could've gotten more for Obi at the time, but evidently we couldn't find a better offer or we'd have taken it. We had a deadline to meet to sign Donte. Net net, we came out better because of it.
Knicks will win the first 2 games of this series at the Garden on the backs of defense and the Nova chemistry, but Obi going to have 1 or 2 highlight dunks, so we'll continue to gripe. Can't see the forest for the trees.
Loved Obi, loved IQ, loved RJ. But winning is fun. Looking forward to the Obi/Hart matchup.
If Kelly POubre can slip behind our defense with wide open back door cuts you know Obi is going to fond the back door
Can't wait for Carlisle's reaction after - multiple times over this series - of Obi running down court for the break, only for Hart or Mitch to snag the *another* offensive board.
Carlisle is releasing him.
Philc1@ 5/7/2024 9:41 AM
EwingsGlass@ 5/7/2024 9:52 AM
Philc1 wrote:
Man. Shame that only counts for 2 points in a loss.
DLeethal@ 5/7/2024 10:13 AM
He missed one of those during his regular season game at the Garden. Comes off as cringe to me to do that during a tight playoff game. He's missed a few of those this year.
CanItGetAnyWorse@ 5/7/2024 10:52 AM
DLeethal wrote:He missed one of those during his regular season game at the Garden. Comes off as cringe to me to do that during a tight playoff game. He's missed a few of those this year.
I can see doing it at home to get the crowd going. But on the road against your former team who you had a blowup with the coach??? I get it but now he solidified himself as the enemy.
He does fit that team nice. Too bad they gave us shizz for him.
Panos@ 5/7/2024 11:22 AM
CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:
DLeethal wrote:He missed one of those during his regular season game at the Garden. Comes off as cringe to me to do that during a tight playoff game. He's missed a few of those this year.
I can see doing it at home to get the crowd going. But on the road against your former team who you had a blowup with the coach??? I get it but now he solidified himself as the enemy.
He does fit that team nice. Too bad they gave us shizz for him.
Agreed that wasn't smart. In a game like this you make damn sure to get the 2 pts
Chandler@ 5/7/2024 11:23 AM
DLeethal wrote:He missed one of those during his regular season game at the Garden. Comes off as cringe to me to do that during a tight playoff game. He's missed a few of those this year.
he missed on in game 6 versus the Bucks
i know he's trying to energize the team but that was a dumb time to do that. Imagined if he blew it???
