I think it's a mistake to rely on Josh Hart foe any significant minutes at PF. Part of his uniqueness is how he can cannily grab rebounds from the SG/SF position, supplementing the RB pulled by the PF and C. Playing him at the 4 negates the advantage he gives over other wings and plays him at a big height disadvantage.
My 2 Cents.
I've always thought that guys like Josh and IQ don't really rely on height and just have a nose for the ball. Good in space and tracking down the ball.
Kinda like Rodman at 6'7"+ getting all the rebounds. Timing, position, bounce, and some length.
martin wrote:I've always thought that guys like Josh and IQ don't really rely on height and just have a nose for the ball. Good in space and tracking down the ball.Kinda like Rodman at 6'7"+ getting all the rebounds. Timing, position, bounce, and some length.
Yes, but why take away the advantage if him additionally grabbing RB's in addition to the PF/C and just putting him at PF where they would at best break even at a team level?
It might work but if either RJ or Randle miss significant time the team will be really small. I've been saying we should have veteran insurance Incase of injury but the team won't prepare for that potential imperfection. They got their guys now why plan for a potential problem. Unless they are really confident in Simms and Roby being inhouse solutions in case of emergency
martin wrote:I've always thought that guys like Josh and IQ don't really rely on height and just have a nose for the ball. Good in space and tracking down the ball.Kinda like Rodman at 6'7"+ getting all the rebounds. Timing, position, bounce, and some length.
Nose for the ball is a great way to describe Hart’s rebounding and there are always so many defensive switches or quick possessions that the pure amount of time Hart’s matched on big 4’s shouldn’t be an issue most of the time.
Plus on offense Hart will be on the perimeter initially—- drawing bigs away or looking at wide open 3’s and he may be able to get to the rim easier against bigger players who don’t move as well laterally or beat them down the floor more often.
If teams want to try to punish us with post ups on Hart let them - rather a guy posting Hart vs guys knocking down 3s.
Panos wrote:martin wrote:I've always thought that guys like Josh and IQ don't really rely on height and just have a nose for the ball. Good in space and tracking down the ball.Kinda like Rodman at 6'7"+ getting all the rebounds. Timing, position, bounce, and some length.
Yes, but why take away the advantage if him additionally grabbing RB's in addition to the PF/C and just putting him at PF where they would at best break even at a team level?
Not sure what you are asking. Josh Hart is a good rebounder. Exceptional. He rebounds with PF’S and C’s on the court all the time. He started at SF with Portland and guarded PF’s in the rotation and still had success getting rebounds.
There is no advantage to take away. He gets to the ball not because he overwhelms guys but because he finds the ball.
What was Portland record when Hart was defending PFs in the rotation ?
when all the bench guys are in (assuming the rotation is as expected) that squad is going to look like:
IQ/DD/JHart/RJ/iHart
Every team's bench line up has a weakness to attack. I like what ours brings on both ends. Looking forward to seeing it play out
Panos wrote:I think it's a mistake to rely on Josh Hart foe any significant minutes at PF. Part of his uniqueness is how he can cannily grab rebounds from the SG/SF position, supplementing the RB pulled by the PF and C. Playing him at the 4 negates the advantage he gives over other wings and plays him at a big height disadvantage.
My 2 Cents.
Hart said it himself, when he plays SG/SF, he gets a running start when tracking rebounds.
But when he plays PF, his main focus is not rebounding, but rather preventing his man from getting a rebound, and thats not easy when you are 6'4 boxing out someone 5 inchs taller than you. It could impact his outside jumper, due to fatigue.
I understand this delima because I've always played bigger than my size, and it's not easy. Takes away from your offense when you have tired legs, that jumper will start to look flat. But in transition, Hart will have the advantage and should be leading the breaks on full court plays.
With that said, the old school PFs are extinct now, maybe a few teams have a legit PF but not many. For the most part, the game is about speed and space, and every team is going in that direction.
So maybe it's not a big deal in todays game!
The Hart/Barrett frontcourt defended well at the end of the regular season and when used in the playoffs. If anything they had trouble scoring with this combination. I know the sample size wasn't big but I don't see why they shouldn't be good defensively and fine on the glass. On D our PFs didn't provide a ton of weak-side rim protection anyway (I think Randle provided even less than Obi b/c he doesn't want to foul), Barrett/Hart will be faster rotating out to shooters, and I really can't think of many players that make me think man I would much rather have Julius Randle or Obi Toppin defending him one on one. I hear ya about the team probably not having as good a rebounder SF if Josh is playing PF instead of SF but I don't think that matters very much. IH is a good rebounder, Hart is a good rebound, Barrett is OK and has a strong body and our guards will be good rebounders. Maybe you are right but I don't see a problem
most rebounds are below the rim and with more and more 3s being taken more rebounds are away from the rim
so yes size is good, but anticipation and desire are more of a premium.
He’s a very good rebounder for a guard but that doesn’t mean necessarily he can play PF. We might be f’d if Randle gets a significant injury
Alpha1971 wrote:What was Portland record when Hart was defending PFs in the rotation ?
82-0
Remember the article over the summer that Kerr was glowing about how he rebounds because he gets low on box out and does a great job vs. bigger players?
If They asking Klay Thompson to do SOME PF work, Josh can do as well. Josh is not starting and my guess is its situational.
And if this kills our season then perhaps they will rethink it.
I'm pretty cool with the idea of jHart playing spot minutes at PF. But the teams pace and grind it out style leads me to believe that this isn't a long-term solution. Also, Hart is our best wing defender and I'm worried about the possible trickle down effects of moving him up in the lineup. Maybe a rotation of RJ, Hart and Sims can eat away enough minutes. I'll wait and see, but Thibs really hasn't been that creative with roster management during his tenure.
I don't like it either. We are completely boned if Randle gets hurt and misses any time. I mean, we have faith that Thibs is gonna play Randle a mild amount of minutes? Before we could at least run with Obi. Now, we're going with a tiny guy at PF? Thibs refused to go small with Obi + Randle and you're telling me he'd be okay potentially need to start a 6'4" PF when, say, Paolo Banchero is playing us? I'm sorry, there needs to be a legitimate PF rostered
Many teams are screwed if their all pro all star goes down.
Im not worried about our back up. Why? Not like FO is ignorant to it.
They know more than us. Im on record that Roby might earn the gig. But Im just speculating. He is not on a guaranteed deal.
But we signed him last year and my thinking is he is someones special project.
We'll see.
Not exactly sure what is going on here. We need to get someone to take Obi's place - the unhappy guy behind Randle? But what if Randle gets hurt (always a possibility)? But what if he doesn't? Perhaps it's just someone to call for when the "dump Randle" starts. I think you're good to go with Roby, Jhart, maybe even RJ or Sims covering that 12 minutes a game. If it goes wrong then you react - again it doesn't make much sense to get a 1B type player (and salary) to sit behind Randle. And if those guys do a lot worse then I'll jump in with the Obi regret but let's see.
Didn't realize it, but I guess the Heat used Jimmy Butler at power forward last season. They eventually got desperate enough that they brought in Kevin Love, who surprisingly has had .3 left in the tank. Then again, Coach Spo is a wiz at getting results from disparate roster pieces. Maybe this moves helps to unlock jHart's three point frequency and makes life a little easier for RJ on the defensive end. Hindsight is hindsight, but I think I wish the Knicks would've acquired Grant Williams instead of Dante.
Alpha1971 wrote:It might work but if either RJ or Randle miss significant time the team will be really small. I've been saying we should have veteran insurance Incase of injury but the team won't prepare for that potential imperfection. They got their guys now why plan for a potential problem. Unless they are really confident in Simms and Roby being inhouse solutions in case of emergency
The roster really needs a combo forward bad.
BigDaddyG wrote:Didn't realize it, but I guess the Heat used Jimmy Butler at power forward last season. They eventually got desperate enough that they brought in Kevin Love, who surprisingly has had .3 left in the tank. Then again, Coach Spo is a wiz at getting results from disparate roster pieces. Maybe this moves helps to unlock jHart's three point frequency and makes life a little easier for RJ on the defensive end. Hindsight is hindsight, but I think I wish the Knicks would've acquired Grant Williams instead of Dante.
It’s a good point.
Not for nothing but I’ve always felt like RJ’s game was more suited in the mold of a PF, just a hint under-height, not even necessarily undersized cause of his strength.
RJ is a legit 6’6” with long arms and prob much stronger than someone like Obi. And he already plays with the second unit.
It’s a good way to get him surrounded by spacers in IQ DDV Josh iHart and see how the paint opens up for him even more without Randle and Bronson and Mitch in that space.
