Knicks · Mistake to have jHart backup PF (page 2)

BigDaddyG wrote:Didn't realize it, but I guess the Heat used Jimmy Butler at power forward last season. They eventually got desperate enough that they brought in Kevin Love, who surprisingly has had .3 left in the tank. Then again, Coach Spo is a wiz at getting results from disparate roster pieces. Maybe this moves helps to unlock jHart's three point frequency and makes life a little easier for RJ on the defensive end. Hindsight is hindsight, but I think I wish the Knicks would've acquired Grant Williams instead of Dante.

It’s a good point.

Not for nothing but I’ve always felt like RJ’s game was more suited in the mold of a PF, just a hint under-height, not even necessarily undersized cause of his strength.

RJ is a legit 6’6” with long arms and prob much stronger than someone like Obi. And he already plays with the second unit.

It’s a good way to get him surrounded by spacers in IQ DDV Josh iHart and see how the paint opens up for him even more without Randle and Bronson and Mitch in that space.

Thought Fred had some interesting takes on the rebounding for the Knicks, especially with second unit. I especially liked his idea of having Mitch play more with bench unit and vice versa for iHart and starters, that seems to make sense for both guys, even if they stay at their current starter and off bench roles.

Check out the 41min mark.

Lots of other good stuff in the podcast. Excellent listen overall, especially next morn after too much Thai takeout previous night

I think it depends on who is on the floor with him. As pointed out upthread, playing JHart at PF will probably limit his production. If JHart has shooters around him, knocking down shots, it could work in spot minutes. Otherwise it might backfire.

This move might be in part because the FO wasnt planning on moving Obi until this upcoming season, at the earliest. But that dustup with Thibs caught then off guard and accelerated their timeline.

I'm hoping that the FO is waiting to make a move this season that will be more than a temporary fix.

Josh Hart is maybe 6’4” or 6’5” and played SF for Portland and often guarded SF’s and some PF’s as a STARTER and averaged 8.2 rebounds over 33 minutes.

But he is going to be at a disadvantage playing against second units and SF’s and some backup PF’s?

Don’t add up for me.

GustavBahler wrote:I think it depends on who is on the floor with him. As pointed out upthread, playing JHart at PF will probably limit his production. If JHart has shooters around him, knocking down shots, it could work in spot minutes. Otherwise it might backfire.

This move might be in part because the FO wasnt planning on moving Obi until this upcoming season, at the earliest. But that dustup with Thibs caught then off guard and accelerated their timeline.

I'm hoping that the FO is waiting to make a move this season that will be more than a temporary fix.

I think the team wanted to keep Obi for continuity but Obi wasn't having it. But they should always be prepared for all contingencies. They must feel confident in Isiah Roby. Hope they found someone good.

martin wrote:Josh Hart is maybe 6’4” or 6’5” and played SF for Portland and often guarded SF’s and some PF’s as a STARTER and averaged 8.2 rebounds over 33 minutes.

But he is going to be at a disadvantage playing against second units and SF’s and some backup PF’s?

Don’t add up for me.

Grant has the PF size playing SF. So they still had good length around hart in that lineup. We don’t have a grant type wing to clean up or help where length is needed. RJ and Grimes are shorter and not as long. Every team has many long wings and those teams like Toronto might give us problems. But the pros may also out weigh the cons.

I can see Thibs forcing other teams to adjust. Running 4 guards and Mitch is scary on both ends.

I like Mitch with second unit as well. He’s more involved and follows RJ for those putbacks. Better flowing and running second unit with 4 guys who can rebound and start the break. Mitch will have a lob / rebound field-day against backup centers.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:Josh Hart is maybe 6’4” or 6’5” and played SF for Portland and often guarded SF’s and some PF’s as a STARTER and averaged 8.2 rebounds over 33 minutes.

But he is going to be at a disadvantage playing against second units and SF’s and some backup PF’s?

Don’t add up for me.

Grant has the PF size playing SF. So they still had good length around hart in that lineup. We don’t have a grant type wing to clean up or help where length is needed. RJ and Grimes are shorter and not as long. Every team has many long wings and those teams like Toronto might give us problems. But the pros may also out weigh the cons.

I can see Thibs forcing other teams to adjust. Running 4 guards and Mitch is scary on both ends.

I like Mitch with second unit as well. He’s more involved and follows RJ for those putbacks. Better flowing and running second unit with 4 guys who can rebound and start the break. Mitch will have a lob / rebound field-day against backup centers.

We don’t have that size at the backup PF position.

The Knicks just have guards in IQ DDV and Hart who have already proven to be extremely good rebounders regardless of their size.

Jmpasq wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:It might work but if either RJ or Randle miss significant time the team will be really small. I've been saying we should have veteran insurance Incase of injury but the team won't prepare for that potential imperfection. They got their guys now why plan for a potential problem. Unless they are really confident in Simms and Roby being inhouse solutions in case of emergency

The roster really needs a combo forward bad.

I agree. I will just hope they see something in Roby and Simms. They could have easily acquired a PF just Incase.

Jmpasq wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:It might work but if either RJ or Randle miss significant time the team will be really small. I've been saying we should have veteran insurance Incase of injury but the team won't prepare for that potential imperfection. They got their guys now why plan for a potential problem. Unless they are really confident in Simms and Roby being inhouse solutions in case of emergency

The roster really needs a combo forward bad.

We needed one before now it’s an even bigger need. Combo forwards with skill killed us last season and it ended with Butler taking a giant dump on us.

What a meh offseason trying to construct a 4 guard alignment in our rotation.

I wonder if the plan is to acquire a PF during the preseason from a team evaluating their roster and someone becoming available. Perhaps Evan will get playing time during the preseason to showcase him for a trade. I wonder if playing Evan in the preseason is even an option. But I'd give him minutes to highlight him.

martin wrote:Josh Hart is maybe 6’4” or 6’5” and played SF for Portland and often guarded SF’s and some PF’s as a STARTER and averaged 8.2 rebounds over 33 minutes.

But he is going to be at a disadvantage playing against second units and SF’s and some backup PF’s?

Don’t add up for me.

I agree. It seems to be short sighted to rely on an undersized PF by design. It seems to easy for other teams to attack an undersized PF with regular sized PF. I know small ball positionless basketball is how it's played now, but we should prepare for the possiblity of needing height and size and the 4.

After first game of the preseason, team should get a vet PF who can shoot cause Simms is not a PF. People who say we don't need a good back up for just 12 mins are forgetting 12 mins is a 1/4 of the game

Dang what happened to this kid Kai Jones? Is he salvageable? It would be like getting out 2021 FRP back. CHA might waive him if no takers on a trade.

Kai can't shoot.

Alpha1971 wrote:Kai can't shoot.

Can’t dance either, yet his videos are viral, go figure.

blkexec wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Kai can't shoot.

Can’t dance either, yet his videos are viral, go figure.

I'll pass on searching about Kai dancing, 😂. But To the original post I don't mind Hart as being a back up PF, but not as the only back up. Simms is not a back up PF. If Hart is the primary back up 4 we will get smoked if any of RJ, Hart, and RJ misses time. We need a tested and capable back up on the team to replace Obi. Been saying it all summer. Martin been mocking me for it. However, Simms is a horror at the 4 and if we ever had to use him we are in trouble. Team might loss the games he has to play 14 minutes and that is easily preventable. Get a vet PF.

BigDaddyG wrote:Didn't realize it, but I guess the Heat used Jimmy Butler at power forward last season. They eventually got desperate enough that they brought in Kevin Love, who surprisingly has had .3 left in the tank. Then again, Coach Spo is a wiz at getting results from disparate roster pieces. Maybe this moves helps to unlock jHart's three point frequency and makes life a little easier for RJ on the defensive end. Hindsight is hindsight, but I think I wish the Knicks would've acquired Grant Williams instead of Dante.

Half of the best teams in the East started guys that I think many Knick fans would categorize as being more a 3 than a 4. The Heat started Jimmy most of the season, The Celtics started Tatum, the Sixers started Tobias, and Brooklyn started Cam Johnson. Randle, Freek, and Pascel are more the exception than the norm IMO. Those guys are a little bigger than RJ and have a good few inches on Hart but they are also starters. I agree about Grant Williams. I think he is a better fit and player but I'm really not worried about size.

Alpha1971 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Kai can't shoot.

Can’t dance either, yet his videos are viral, go figure.

I'll pass on searching about Kai dancing, 😂. But To the original post I don't mind Hart as being a back up PF, but not as the only back up. Simms is not a back up PF. If Hart is the primary back up 4 we will get smoked if any of RJ, Hart, and RJ misses time. We need a tested and capable back up on the team to replace Obi. Been saying it all summer. Martin been mocking me for it. However, Simms is a horror at the 4 and if we ever had to use him we are in trouble. Team might loss the games he has to play 14 minutes and that is easily preventable. Get a vet PF.

LIke who, at what salary and who do you trade to get one?
Sims played some PF last year with Ihart.
What was our record there?
If RJ, Hart or Jules miss time all at the same time its an issue. For any team btw. IF that happens our season is shit, we get a higher draft pick, and we do it again and again…..

Try not to get to influenced by last nights game. Preseason are awful predictors.

Backup PF is not a huge deal right now since it's just a 15 mpg back up role. RJ, Hart or Sims/Hartenstein can hold it down. The real issue is what happens if Randle goes down? Can RJ, Hart and Sims/Hartenstein spell PF for an entire game? Especially against guys like Giannis, KD and AD? Doubt it.

Nalod wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Kai can't shoot.

Can’t dance either, yet his videos are viral, go figure.

I'll pass on searching about Kai dancing, 😂. But To the original post I don't mind Hart as being a back up PF, but not as the only back up. Simms is not a back up PF. If Hart is the primary back up 4 we will get smoked if any of RJ, Hart, and RJ misses time. We need a tested and capable back up on the team to replace Obi. Been saying it all summer. Martin been mocking me for it. However, Simms is a horror at the 4 and if we ever had to use him we are in trouble. Team might loss the games he has to play 14 minutes and that is easily preventable. Get a vet PF.

LIke who, at what salary and who do you trade to get one?
Sims played some PF last year with Ihart.
What was our record there?
If RJ, Hart or Jules miss time all at the same time its an issue. For any team btw. IF that happens our season is shit, we get a higher draft pick, and we do it again and again…..

Try not to get to influenced by last nights game. Preseason are awful predictors.

Kurt Thomas

SergioNYK wrote:Backup PF is not a huge deal right now since it's just a 15 mpg back up role. RJ, Hart or Sims/Hartenstein can hold it down. The real issue is what happens if Randle goes down? Can RJ, Hart and Sims/Hartenstein spell PF for an entire game? Especially against guys like Giannis, KD and AD? Doubt it.

12 minutes is an entire quarter of the game. Better man the position