Looking at how things are coming together
Mitch has been an absolute beast. Sure Embiid is an upgrade but we aren’t getting him, and outside of him, any realistic move at center takes away from how the Knicks win games- Mitch and Hartenstein are a perfect compliment to each other and should stay
Randle is Randle. We could try to trade him plus IQ and/or picks for KAT, but does it make us better? KAT has a lot of the same struggles as Randle, and we risk a clunky fit next to Mitch. Randle isn’t perfect but you can’t just get rid of him either.
Barrett seems to be taking the steps forward we hoped for. He was the obvious upgrade spot, but maybe not anymore. And any Barrett moves leaves a big hole at the wing.
Grimes hasn’t really taken a step forward, but the Knicks have DiVincenzo, Hart and IQ for some SG minutes , and this position has the best depth.
Brunson is the franchise PG and isn’t going anywhere. IQ off the bench, plus McBride, Arcidiacono, and Jokubaitis in the pipeline doesn’t leave any opportunities for upgrade.
The easiest projectable move would be using Quickley and picks to upgrade the starting lineup, but where is that move? Maybe Anunoby if he tells Toronto he’s going to leave this offseason. It makes sense for both teams. Essentially he would replace grimes in the lineup to give more size and scoring, and DiVincenzo/ Hart would spend more time on the ball with the second unit with IQ gone. Grimes would serve as the backup SG. But Toronto and New York also have a pending lawsuit that likely complicates their ability to do business.
Is there anything else obvious out there ? A team with a big hole at PG that can provide a starting lineup upgrade ? Otherwise I think the only obvious potential move would be hoping Barrett and Quickley improve enough to send to Cleveland for Mitchell if the time ever comes.
I think SG is open unless Grimes steps up. Mitchell, Lavine fit there.
Internally IQ fits there as well.
Long term there aren't enough minutes in the backcourt for IQ, Grimes and DDV so one of those guys likely gets moved. We're already seeing these guys minutes cut drastically this year.
KAT could be an upgrade over Randle as well at PF, and could also play some C.
Embidd of course is also a big upgrade at C, as well as Mitch has played, Embidd is just a monster and could also space the floor some.
RJ seems to be their ticket to growth this year at least. If we can get Brunson/Randle/RJ all playing at their highest levels we are pretty good. Grimes doesn't look ready to take the next step unfortunately. Our ceiling is pretty obvious though, but we can still make some noise and if Miami can make the finals last year, we can put together a run if the stars align.
martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
nycericanguy wrote:I think SG is open unless Grimes steps up. Mitchell, Lavine fit there.
Internally IQ fits there as well.
Long term there aren't enough minutes in the backcourt for IQ, Grimes and DDV so one of those guys likely gets moved. We're already seeing these guys minutes cut drastically this year.KAT could be an upgrade over Randle as well at PF, and could also play some C.
Embidd of course is also a big upgrade at C, as well as Mitch has played, Embidd is just a monster and could also space the floor some.
I agree about the SG position. Or it can even be a bigger wing and have Barrett shift to the SG. Anunoby makes so much sense. He does most of what grimes does but better. D Mitchell is the star shot creator we could use but will cost Barrett, IQ and picks at a minimum.
Knixkik wrote:nycericanguy wrote:I think SG is open unless Grimes steps up. Mitchell, Lavine fit there.
Internally IQ fits there as well.
Long term there aren't enough minutes in the backcourt for IQ, Grimes and DDV so one of those guys likely gets moved. We're already seeing these guys minutes cut drastically this year.KAT could be an upgrade over Randle as well at PF, and could also play some C.
Embidd of course is also a big upgrade at C, as well as Mitch has played, Embidd is just a monster and could also space the floor some.
I agree about the SG position. Or it can even be a bigger wing and have Barrett shift to the SG. Anunoby makes so much sense. He does most of what grimes does but better. D Mitchell is the star shot creator we could use but will cost Barrett, IQ and picks at a minimum.
ehh hard pass on OG. if we're going to bump Grimes or IQ it should be for a legit star, not another expensive, injury prone role player.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
didn't we have like the best record, or close to it in the second half of last season?
you want to know? We all want to know.
sometimes a team needs on more year of being together?
What Im seeing is knicks are trying to execute more passing.
I see better play from our centers.
RJ.
And Randle will come around.
How do we get better? Yes, Make more shots, reduce turnovers a bit, and perhaps we we are 5-2 instead of 3-4.
Its been a tough schedule.
Randle and picks for KAT would be the best way IMO to upgrade without costing us our entire youth/picks and not creating a positional logjam issue. I'd love to keep IQ but would do it if that's what it took. Not a specific fan of KAT and he has issues like most players - but he can play some C when needed and offers similar production offensively and defensively. Think Heat playoffs when we were going 4 vs 5 with Mitch and Randle wasn't playing well.
We have watched 4 seasons to know that Randle and RJ are not a great pairing. It's not a swing for the fences (Embiid) move but it changes the chemistry while not disrupting the entire roster focus (eg build around different player).
This move doesn't mean RJ stays forever either - but he does seem to play better when not paired with Randle so we could give it time to see if he does take that next step or not. If not - it seems plausible that Donovan Mitchell will be available in the future (since he didn't resign). While I was previously opposed to a small backcourt if you add KAT as a 4 - it might offer enough overall size to consider pairing DM and JB in the backcourt. In that scenario RJ and remaining picks would be on the move as well. But moving on from Randle would be the first move. I'd prefer Lauri Markannen (Utah) or another long stretch four but KAT will likely be less costly and more available for trade (due to Gobert pairing).
I think a simple move now, like Fournier for Jonathan Isaac would help both teams with positional depth without actually adding any salary to either team. Isaac has hammy issues now and the Knicks could rest him without any real loss and maintain expiring salary as needed. If it pans out, they have good PF depth for a playoff run. If not, they have the same filler for the bench.
At SG, Grimes is scaring me with the deer in headlights crunch times. Not looking to bail on him, but a move for a solid 3&D role player at the SG would be fine. I look at Ayo Dosunmu up in Chicago and think he is pretty buried there. He just signed a 3 year 21mm contract so can’t be traded until 12/15, but I think his deal would fit into the Toppin TPE. Bulls look like garbage so they might cut bait. He’s also an upside player, but I’d be willing to throw a Wiz pick in to nab him. His 6’10 wingspan and high motor would be a good SG role playing move. He could handle the ball handling off guard for Brunson and would pair well with him.
Barrett for Bridges or Anunoby makes some sense, but I kind of like how Barrett is playing and want to see this out.
Other than that, I think the only move that really makes us better is a Zion Williamson/Randle + Picks swap. Embiid will cost too much. KAT is half a player. Lavine is missing knees. Love Spida but don’t think he coexists in the same lineup as Brunson. But you take Randle and swap him with a healthy Zion, and I think the sky is the limit for this team. We are hard-capped so would have to match salary. Probably need the Fournier (Isaac?) salary to make that work.
This team is probably better:
Brunson/IQ
Dosunmu/DDV
Barrett/Hart
Randle/Isaac
Robinson/Hart
Imrovements can come from free throw ahooting and pick and roll deployment with Mitch. Gotta unlock some offense out of the kid. If Grimes doesn't pick it up gotta look elsewhere for a 2 guard. Curious to see where we'll land for the draft. I still see us as 45 win team.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
Oh OK, didn't know if you meant tactically or more strategically.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
Oh OK, didn't know if you meant tactically or more strategically.
I was thinking it meant personnel.
Tactically, I mean,
1) the passing in that first unit
2) FT shooting, though we are coming off a crazy game where we hit like 90+% of shots.
3) Shot selection as always is relevant. We are doing better.
4) Breaking the press seems to be a problem for us.
5) Inbounding the ball in crunch time.
6) play calling out of a timeout.
Off the top of my head.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
Last season Knicks were 3rd in offensive rating and 19th in defensive rating. This year they are 28th and 2nd respectively. It's a pretty tried and true formula that to win a championship you need a top ten offense and defense. My hope is with improved shooting (Randle and IQ are at career lows from 3) the Knicks can get in the top ten..
The real improvement is defense which has happened and if it continues will raise the ceiling considerably.
EwingsGlass wrote:I think a simple move now, like Fournier for Jonathan Isaac would help both teams with positional depth without actually adding any salary to either team. Isaac has hammy issues now and the Knicks could rest him without any real loss and maintain expiring salary as needed. If it pans out, they have good PF depth for a playoff run. If not, they have the same filler for the bench. At SG, Grimes is scaring me with the deer in headlights crunch times. Not looking to bail on him, but a move for a solid 3&D role player at the SG would be fine. I look at Ayo Dosunmu up in Chicago and think he is pretty buried there. He just signed a 3 year 21mm contract so can’t be traded until 12/15, but I think his deal would fit into the Toppin TPE. Bulls look like garbage so they might cut bait. He’s also an upside player, but I’d be willing to throw a Wiz pick in to nab him. His 6’10 wingspan and high motor would be a good SG role playing move. He could handle the ball handling off guard for Brunson and would pair well with him.
Barrett for Bridges or Anunoby makes some sense, but I kind of like how Barrett is playing and want to see this out.
Other than that, I think the only move that really makes us better is a Zion Williamson/Randle + Picks swap. Embiid will cost too much. KAT is half a player. Lavine is missing knees. Love Spida but don’t think he coexists in the same lineup as Brunson. But you take Randle and swap him with a healthy Zion, and I think the sky is the limit for this team. We are hard-capped so would have to match salary. Probably need the Fournier (Isaac?) salary to make that work.
This team is probably better:
Brunson/IQ
Dosunmu/DDV
Barrett/Hart
Randle/Isaac
Robinson/Hart
I love this idea of trading for Isaac. Seems like he would be a great fit. Knicks could even toss in the picks from the Obi trade as a face saving gesture.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
Oh OK, didn't know if you meant tactically or more strategically.
Definitely personnel wise because I don’t believe we have any players on the roster who can make such a jump that raises the trajectory of the team beyond what it is.
jskinny35 wrote:Randle and picks for KAT would be the best way IMO to upgrade without costing us our entire youth/picks and not creating a positional logjam issue. I'd love to keep IQ but would do it if that's what it took. Not a specific fan of KAT and he has issues like most players - but he can play some C when needed and offers similar production offensively and defensively. Think Heat playoffs when we were going 4 vs 5 with Mitch and Randle wasn't playing well. We have watched 4 seasons to know that Randle and RJ are not a great pairing. It's not a swing for the fences (Embiid) move but it changes the chemistry while not disrupting the entire roster focus (eg build around different player).
This move doesn't mean RJ stays forever either - but he does seem to play better when not paired with Randle so we could give it time to see if he does take that next step or not. If not - it seems plausible that Donovan Mitchell will be available in the future (since he didn't resign). While I was previously opposed to a small backcourt if you add KAT as a 4 - it might offer enough overall size to consider pairing DM and JB in the backcourt. In that scenario RJ and remaining picks would be on the move as well. But moving on from Randle would be the first move. I'd prefer Lauri Markannen (Utah) or another long stretch four but KAT will likely be less costly and more available for trade (due to Gobert pairing).
The Randle and extra for Towns move, while I don’t believe it would make a huge difference, I could be convinced it’s worth a shot. It improves the shooting for sure. Doesn’t sacrifice in any particular area. But I do wonder about the fit with Towns at PF when his best position is pretty clearly center based on his career in Minnesota so far. The happy medium could be starting him alongside Mitch but playing him most of the non-Mitch center minutes. Maybe Minnesota accepts Randle, Hartenstein, and replenishing some of their picks before towns contract spike?
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
Oh OK, didn't know if you meant tactically or more strategically.
Definitely personnel wise because I don’t believe we have any players on the roster who can make such a jump that raises the trajectory of the team beyond what it is.
RJ and Mitch seem to be raising their games right before our eyes.
I’m thinking that Knicks prob don’t have the mix for contender status yet but they can definitely be better than last year IMHO
Randle returning to pre injury Randle.
Gotta get Mitch’s shooting percentage back up to his absurd gaudy 700 level.
Move IQ into the starting line up, get him some more minutes.
Back up rebounding/defensive specialist PF as back up.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Making shots. That's it.
Making shots gets us back to last year’s level of play. I’m still concerned this team is capped and I want to know what the next step is.
Oh OK, didn't know if you meant tactically or more strategically.
Definitely personnel wise because I don’t believe we have any players on the roster who can make such a jump that raises the trajectory of the team beyond what it is.
RJ and Mitch seem to be raising their games right before our eyes.
I’m thinking that Knicks prob don’t have the mix for contender status yet but they can definitely be better than last year IMHO
To me the play of Barrett and Mitch is awesome, but I view it more as a way to offset risk of Randle and Brunson sort of plateauing, or not having quite the seasons they had last year. But there is the chance that Barrett continues to get to a place offensively where he can fully take over as second option and move Randle down to third, and that would open up another level for the Knicks to get to without a major personnel move.
I’m hoping grimes gets a little more consistency this year but I’m not entirely optimistic about it. There’s nothing wrong with him turning into that Danny Green-type 3&D guy who gets his 10-12 ppg and occasional hot shooting night, but it leaves an opening to improve the starting lineup if that’s what he tops out as.
The clearest most reasonable upgrade is with Grimes. The team needs to be able to rely on him to knock down shots more reliably. He has the capability. It will open up a lot of things
Less realistic is they need another major alpha to help win the real tough games and playoffs. To me the best fit is Donovan. When he was drafted the narrative is he a defensive specialist but hopefully can learn to shoot. He obviously learned to score and in the process has been slacking on D compared to his capabilities. I would like to think he would buy into a defensive system. I am happy to be patient with him so that we don’t sell the farm to get him
