Knicks · Is DDV showing that Grimes is expendable? (page 1)

Obviously you consider dealing Grimes if it’s required for a star trade, but otherwise you need both.

Not expendable but he may work better in the starting lineup. Lets see it play out, but he complements Randle really well.

Knixkik wrote:Obviously you consider dealing Grimes if it’s required for a star trade, but otherwise you need both.

pretty much this, and it goes to show that Grimes CAN shoot more if he could create some shots. DDV playing with the starters has had no issue getting a ton of shots.

Thibs has been pretty reluctant to change his starting lineup. Would anyone consider an EF and Grimes for Marcus Smart trade? Get the Knicks a proven playoff guy and open enough space to use the Obi trade exemption on Gallinari.

It’s only true because they are basically the same player that’s why it was a meh signing

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Obviously you consider dealing Grimes if it’s required for a star trade, but otherwise you need both.

pretty much this, and it goes to show that Grimes CAN shoot more if he could create some shots. DDV playing with the starters has had no issue getting a ton of shots.

DDV’s read and reaction time has to be next level. He gets his shot off so fast defenses don’t have a chance. Grimes needs more time to develop, but I’m confident he’ll get the here in a few years. A move to the second unit will help him build confidence with less pressure, but he e all know how stubborn Thibs is about making changes to the rotation

Rookie wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Obviously you consider dealing Grimes if it’s required for a star trade, but otherwise you need both.

pretty much this, and it goes to show that Grimes CAN shoot more if he could create some shots. DDV playing with the starters has had no issue getting a ton of shots.

DDV’s read and reaction time has to be next level. He gets his shot off so fast defenses don’t have a chance. Grimes needs more time to develop, but I’m confident he’ll get the here in a few years. A move to the second unit will help him build confidence with less pressure, but he e all know how stubborn Thibs is about making changes to the rotation

im high on Grimes and I think he can too, but it goes to show you that its not Thibs or playing with 3 scorers that is holding him back. there's plenty of opportunity even starting alongside those 3.

Heck IQ finds a way to score a ton on this team as well as a 4th option.

This is why some fans were a little reluctant on DDV. He is 6 years in. He has started 130 games in his career. Last night against Charlotte he set a new career high scoring 25 points. That is something Grimes has already done 5 times with a lot less opportunity. I'm not saying he is a bad player but when you account for defense Grimes is just a better player with a much higher ceiling even if for stretches the older more steady DDV might be better. Could we trade Grimes? Sure if the trade made us better and if that happened having DDV as a depth piece is a good thing but they shouldn't be looking to move Grimes b/c they have DDV and DDV should not be considered a potential starter long term.

EwingPSD wrote:This is why some fans were a little reluctant on DDV. He is 6 years in. He has started 130 games in his career. Last night against Charlotte he set a new career high scoring 25 points. That is something Grimes has already done 5 times with a lot less opportunity. I'm not saying he is a bad player but when you account for defense Grimes is just a better player with a much higher ceiling even if for stretches the older more steady DDV might be better. Could we trade Grimes? Sure if the trade made us better and if that happened having DDV as a depth piece is a good thing but they shouldn't be looking to move Grimes b/c they have DDV and DDV should not be considered a potential starter long term.

Grimes played 71 games last year, 66 starts and 30mpg, i wouldn't call that less opportunity. DDV has never played 30mpg. Most of Grimes big scoring games have come in late season games also.

I wouldn't take DDV over Grimes long term though. Grimes has a ton of potential, while DDV is a nice player, like you say he pretty much is what he is.

nycericanguy wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Obviously you consider dealing Grimes if it’s required for a star trade, but otherwise you need both.

pretty much this, and it goes to show that Grimes CAN shoot more if he could create some shots. DDV playing with the starters has had no issue getting a ton of shots.

DDV’s read and reaction time has to be next level. He gets his shot off so fast defenses don’t have a chance. Grimes needs more time to develop, but I’m confident he’ll get the here in a few years. A move to the second unit will help him build confidence with less pressure, but he e all know how stubborn Thibs is about making changes to the rotation

im high on Grimes and I think he can too, but it goes to show you that its not Thibs or playing with 3 scorers that is holding him back. there's plenty of opportunity even starting alongside those 3.

Heck IQ finds a way to score a ton on this team as well as a 4th option.

DDV is getting off 8 3s per 36 so far despite getting a lot more touches in his second unit action. QG is getting off 8 3s per 36 mins so far this season. DDV only started two games. Both were against bottom feeders. Barrett didn't play in one and had lower minutes/usage in another. This could have led to more touches. It is also very possible Jalen Brunson scoring nearly 30 in a half, Randle not going 3 for 17 thus drawing more attention and helping flow, or being guarded by Jordon Poole had something to do with him getting good looks. I don't think we should be drawing any conclusions

EwingPSD wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Obviously you consider dealing Grimes if it’s required for a star trade, but otherwise you need both.

pretty much this, and it goes to show that Grimes CAN shoot more if he could create some shots. DDV playing with the starters has had no issue getting a ton of shots.

DDV’s read and reaction time has to be next level. He gets his shot off so fast defenses don’t have a chance. Grimes needs more time to develop, but I’m confident he’ll get the here in a few years. A move to the second unit will help him build confidence with less pressure, but he e all know how stubborn Thibs is about making changes to the rotation

im high on Grimes and I think he can too, but it goes to show you that its not Thibs or playing with 3 scorers that is holding him back. there's plenty of opportunity even starting alongside those 3.

Heck IQ finds a way to score a ton on this team as well as a 4th option.

DDV is getting off 8 3s per 36 so far despite getting a lot more touches in his second unit action. QG is getting off 8 3s per 36 mins so far this season. DDV only started two games. Both were against bottom feeders. Barrett didn't play in one and had lower minutes/usage in another. This could have led to more touches. It is also very possible Jalen Brunson scoring nearly 30 in a half, Randle not going 3 for 17 thus drawing more attention and helping flow, or being guarded by Jordon Poole had something to do with him getting good looks. I don't think we should be drawing any conclusions

thats fair, i haven't looked at numbers, just from watching I just feel like DDV isn't hesitant to shoot, he makes things happen. Grimes seems to wait for it to come to him.

Philc1 wrote:It’s only true because they are basically the same player that’s why it was a meh signing

I actually think the DDV signing is pretty underrated. DDV is among the top 25 highest winning percentag players. Of All Time. He does little things that helps teams win. Grimes has upside but ideally he would become DDV. Now grimes has value and there is room for both on the team, but I don’t think DDV is a meh singing. I think he is a value add.

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:This is why some fans were a little reluctant on DDV. He is 6 years in. He has started 130 games in his career. Last night against Charlotte he set a new career high scoring 25 points. That is something Grimes has already done 5 times with a lot less opportunity. I'm not saying he is a bad player but when you account for defense Grimes is just a better player with a much higher ceiling even if for stretches the older more steady DDV might be better. Could we trade Grimes? Sure if the trade made us better and if that happened having DDV as a depth piece is a good thing but they shouldn't be looking to move Grimes b/c they have DDV and DDV should not be considered a potential starter long term.

Grimes played 71 games last year, 66 starts and 30mpg, i wouldn't call that less opportunity. DDV has never played 30mpg. Most of Grimes big scoring games have come in late season games also.

I wouldn't take DDV over Grimes long term though. Grimes has a ton of potential, while DDV is a nice player, like you say he pretty much is what he is.

DDV has been in the league twice as long, he's started more games, he's played in more games where he played big minutes, and his only 25-point game came against the Charlotte Hornet in a blowout. He's had more opportunity. If not it would be hard to say he probably is what he is.

Short sample big impression.
DDV has not been overly durable either. Some players are better suited as role players.
Not sure Grimes is durable either but he is young and if you want to develop him we have to let him play thru mistakes and grow into things. DDV is solid, and he might be better at the moment.
Grimes is not holding us back.

Thibs starts one but does not always let them finish. Then its about who is best to help win the game. That we have seen.

Nalod wrote:Short sample big impression.
DDV has not been overly durable either. Some players are better suited as role players.
Not sure Grimes is durable either but he is young and if you want to develop him we have to let him play thru mistakes and grow into things. DDV is solid, and he might be better at the moment.
Grimes is not holding us back.

Thibs starts one but does not always let them finish. Then its about who is best to help win the game. That we have seen.

This makes a lot more sense. Don't let DDV usurp Grimes' role but don't give Grimes a hand out either. He should start but his minutes and who finishes can vary from night to night. Give Gimes a floor of 25 mins or so and let him play a bigger role if he earns it

I still can't get over Grimes making the steal on one leg:

How many draft picks are we getting this year? How close is this team to being an elite NBA FINALS contender?

The FO almost has to make a move for something.

I don't know what or who that something is, or exactly what is outgoing in return besides hopefully some of those picks.

I think Thibs is probably pretty happy with the small line up he has gone with.

I do tend to think in the playoffs,a big team like Boston or Milwaukee is going to overwhelm our size.

I think the Smart trade posed above would be great.

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franco12 wrote:I still can't get over Grimes making the steal on one leg:

How many draft picks are we getting this year? How close is this team to being an elite NBA FINALS contender?

The FO almost has to make a move for something.

I don't know what or who that something is, or exactly what is outgoing in return besides hopefully some of those picks.

I think Thibs is probably pretty happy with the small line up he has gone with.

I do tend to think in the playoffs,a big team like Boston or Milwaukee is going to over whelm our size.

I think the Smart trade posed above would be great.

The thing with Smart is his value is probably at an all time low. Memphis brought him in as an upgrade over Tyus Jones and he wasn't able to elevate the Grizzlies. I think a lot of that also has to do with the highly underrated Steve Adams being out for the season. I'm also thinking that maybe in light of the new media contract the NBA was pushing for the Lakers Warriors and Suns to be at the top of the West,ergo the long suspension for Ja.

Now it looks like Memphis might be better off getting a good draft pick this season and wait for Clarke and Adams to get healthy. In that case EF's expiring gets them out of the luxury tax for next season and Grimes age cheap contract and style meshes better with their roster.

For the Knicks, they have shown a tendency to wild in high pressure games- I'm thinking specifically of the series vs. the Heat where it took them four games to find their?mojo. Having a guy like Smart takes a lot of pressure off of Randle and IQ and can help them get better shots in a way that Brunson isn't naturally inclined to do. His defense is a game changer and as of now the road to the Finals looks like it will go through Boston. I think Smart defending Tatum in a tight fourth quarter is likely the best antidote for Tatum continuing to own the Knicks like he did in the last game.

DDV is showing the difference between an aggressive high IQ SG who gets after it and helps more than just by shooting and one that just sits at three point line looking to put up shots.

Grimes can be this. He has the skills. Hopefully he is watching.

Honestly if the Knicks really wanted to start DDV then they should consider trading grimes and picks to the bulls for Caruso. Caruso is the ultimate utility player off the bench and would be a perfect complement to IQ. He takes no usage and can shoot, while being an elite defender. Grimes can be an elite defender, but Caruso is one. He’s one of the best in the game and outside of OG is the top 3&D guy in my opinion. I understand the cost and the opinion for those who would prefer keeping the young knick to develop. Totally understandable. I’m just saying if you believe DDV makes the starting lineup even better and complements Brunson and Randle, Caruso is an upgrade to the bench and the defensive culture of this team. A deal would require Grimes, plus a couple of the minimum contract players to make the money work, then it comes down to picks. Chicago needs them and the idea would be to avoid any unprotected ones.

Knixkik wrote:Honestly if the Knicks really wanted to start DDV then they should consider trading grimes and picks to the bulls for Caruso. Caruso is the ultimate utility player off the bench and would be a perfect complement to IQ. He takes no usage and can shoot, while being an elite defender. Grimes can be an elite defender, but Caruso is one. He’s one of the best in the game and outside of OG is the top 3&D guy in my opinion. I understand the cost and the opinion for those who would prefer keeping the young knick to develop. Totally understandable. I’m just saying if you believe DDV makes the starting lineup even better and complements Brunson and Randle, Caruso is an upgrade to the bench and the defensive culture of this team. A deal would require Grimes, plus a couple of the minimum contract players to make the money work, then it comes down to picks. Chicago needs them and the idea would be to avoid any unprotected ones.

I'd start Caruso. I like DDV off the bench.
I'd trade IQ or Grimes. Bulls are making noise its gonna be expensive.
If it gets us to the next level, then perhaps its worthwhile.
I'd like to see Grimes get more time to create and see what he can do.
as the 4th option, his catch and shoot as a starter can be devastating to opponents but he has to his 2pt attempts at a better clip.
He is near 40% from 3pt range.

Tell me what coach is asking him to do and are they happy? Knicks ball movement is improved and he is getting better looks this year.