Clean wrote:Anyone else lovethat during a time when everthing leaks this trade did'nt? Them even having trade conversations a month ago about OG did not leak.
The clickbait trade rumors never come to pass and the actual moves come out of nowhere.
KnickDanger wrote:Clean wrote:Anyone else lovethat during a time when everthing leaks this trade did'nt? Them even having trade conversations a month ago about OG did not leak.
The clickbait trade rumors never come to pass and the actual moves come out of nowhere.
The fact is no one in the media knows what’s going on with this front office. They are air tight. Some rumors like the meeting with Toronto a month ago come after the fact but not real ones. Media reported Knicks were interested in OG but so was every other team. It was a given. Real sources are pretty limited.
Funny. Random thoughts.
If the Knicks decline their option on Fournier and clear their cap holds, and work out an extension with OG similar to Hart’s where he opts in to his 19mm option, there’s a world where they have 27mm in cap space this offseason. I mean, they are a haircut away from signing Donovan Mitchell outright. Cavs would be inclined to sort out a deal sooner rather than later.
And if we are watching the CAA vs Klutch battle, I’d make a guess that JJJ is gonna come back on the Knicks radar in the short-term. I note Julius left CAA in September. Classic foreshadowing?
Last thought is that I like Precious Achiuwa. Raw power in this guy. 24 years old. Could use some fundamentals but wow does he add some athleticism to this team.
On record as liking the trade — not going to miss RJ and/or IQ much tbh.
No grand illusions of OG greatness but I always said Julius/RJ were clunky as hell and neither defended —- OG fits better, defends and spaces.
Hoping we somehow uncover something in Precious but Thibs is either going to use him or bury him - TBD.
I’ve never been the guy sniffing around on the likes of Embid and what he’d cost and I did NOT like the proposed trades we heard on Mitchell.
With the recent CAA and Klutch mentions of a potential pow-wow to clear air —- rumor seemed to focus around D-Murray Knicks interest but also wonder if meeting could unlock Option to sneak in on LaVine and get him cheap. I like both LaVine / Murray and depending on trade would be kind of a fun group to see how they would do. Murray is cheaper and can take pressure off Brunson handling so much plus defend better - just not sniper Zach is - prefer Murray of the 2.
I’m more in the entertain me with good/competitive basketball & players vs. I want championship at any cost. My ideal championship would be a team that nobody thinks can do it vs loaded star team - kind of like the Spree/Houston/Camby years.
LivingLegend wrote:On record as liking the trade — not going to miss RJ and/or IQ much tbh.No grand illusions of OG greatness but I always said Julius/RJ were clunky as hell and neither defended —- OG fits better, defends and spaces.
Hoping we somehow uncover something in Precious but Thibs is either going to use him or bury him - TBD.
I’ve never been the guy sniffing around on the likes of Embid and what he’d cost and I did NOT like the proposed trades we heard on Mitchell.
With the recent CAA and Klutch mentions of a potential pow-wow to clear air —- rumor seemed to focus around D-Murray Knicks interest but also wonder if meeting could unlock Option to sneak in on LaVine and get him cheap. I like both LaVine / Murray and depending on trade would be kind of a fun group to see how they would do. Murray is cheaper and can take pressure off Brunson handling so much plus defend better - just not sniper Zach is - prefer Murray of the 2.
I’m more in the entertain me with good/competitive basketball & players vs. I want championship at any cost. My ideal championship would be a team that nobody thinks can do it vs loaded star team - kind of like the Spree/Houston/Camby years.
I think IQ ànd RJ needed to be traded but am worried they got traded together for another roll player. Wondering if IQ in a separate trade couldn't have gotten us a wing on his own. And RJ and the a Detroit second rounder and a first couldn't have gotten us OG just worried we no longer have anything of real value to trade with picks ans Fornier to get another piece. Unless Murray or another player is forcing a trade to us as we speak for primarily picks and Evans expiring deal. For the remainder of the season unless we make another deal, I'd expect we just go with what we have and may not make the playoffs. If we don't we have our picks and Dallas to trade or use to bolster the roster.
OG is Ron Artest w/o the handles but with a jumper from deep and he’s a larger player who can guard players bigger than him like some centers. OG gives us a look at the impact of having a true 3&D wing.
We had too many small guards who needed PT. Played Devo at SF just to get IQ some PT. And it works in stretches but not in the playoffs, which appears to be their thinking from these moves. Healthy OG is perfect for Thibs.
This tells me we all in on Thibs, JB and Jules. Building around this core isn’t bad. RJ or Randle had to go. IQ was removed in friendly fire. The real chess move is getting him back. I believe that’s still in play until he signs new contract with Toronto correct?
Happy New Year
Alpha1971 wrote:LivingLegend wrote:On record as liking the trade — not going to miss RJ and/or IQ much tbh.No grand illusions of OG greatness but I always said Julius/RJ were clunky as hell and neither defended —- OG fits better, defends and spaces.
Hoping we somehow uncover something in Precious but Thibs is either going to use him or bury him - TBD.
I’ve never been the guy sniffing around on the likes of Embid and what he’d cost and I did NOT like the proposed trades we heard on Mitchell.
With the recent CAA and Klutch mentions of a potential pow-wow to clear air —- rumor seemed to focus around D-Murray Knicks interest but also wonder if meeting could unlock Option to sneak in on LaVine and get him cheap. I like both LaVine / Murray and depending on trade would be kind of a fun group to see how they would do. Murray is cheaper and can take pressure off Brunson handling so much plus defend better - just not sniper Zach is - prefer Murray of the 2.
I’m more in the entertain me with good/competitive basketball & players vs. I want championship at any cost. My ideal championship would be a team that nobody thinks can do it vs loaded star team - kind of like the Spree/Houston/Camby years.
I think IQ ànd RJ needed to be traded but am worried they got traded together for another roll player. Wondering if IQ in a separate trade couldn't have gotten us a wing on his own. And RJ and the a Detroit second rounder and a first couldn't have gotten us OG just worried we no longer have anything of real value to trade with picks ans Fornier to get another piece. Unless Murray or another player is forcing a trade to us as we speak for primarily picks and Evans expiring deal. For the remainder of the season unless we make another deal, I'd expect we just go with what we have and may not make the playoffs. If we don't we have our picks and Dallas to trade or use to bolster the roster.
Toronto definitely wanted Quickley over anyone. I wonder if Knicks could have gotten the same package for Quickley, Fournier and picks if anything, but the Knicks clearly wanted to clear the rotational glut as well. Considering no first round picks were included, which is surprising since Toronto likely won’t have one this year , this deal probably made the most sense for the Knicks. I personally would have preferred Barrett, Grimes and multiple picks, and keep Quickley because he’s the best, but this deal wasn’t getting done without Quickley. He’s their PG of the future.
martin wrote:It's the perfect, high level role player for the Knicks
Thibs highlighted this too. I think we really value finishing around the rim and in transition. DDV, Hart are superb finishing tough transition buckets. Apparently OG is really good there too.
EwingsGlass wrote:DLeethal wrote:Knicks are starting to look like a functional "fit". Losing IQ hurts the most but RJ was always the odd man out in the starting lineup. DDV looking like one of the best shooters in the league probably made it easier to lose IQ as well.
I agree.
Brunson/McBride/Flynn
DDV/Grimes
OG/Hart
Randle/Gibson
Hart/Achiuwa/Sims
/(Robinson)
Roster looks a little in flux. The McBride extension makes me think they are going to allocate extra minutes to him and wanted to lock him up to a reasonable contract.
I think Sadiq Bey would be another good add here.
Yea I think on paper it looks like we are lacking in the scoring dept now but we really beefed up on defenders around Brunson and Randle, by re-entering McBride into the lineup and probably increasing Grimes/DDV minutes by 50% and adding an all NBA defender for 30mpg.
- I wonder if OG has another level of offense to his game. Wouldn't be shocked if he steps up in a way that hasn't been seen. All the guys we trade for seem to produce better than they did at their respective stops like Brunson, Hart, and DDV.
- Elite 3&D multi-positional forwards are some of the most coveted pieces to get nowadays. You can probably count the guys better than OG on one hand.
- DDV might be coming into his own as a 6MOY caliber player himself.
- I have a feeling Precious is going to feel like much more than a throw-in. We needed a big athletic defensive body who can pound the offensive boards with Mitch out.
Somehow Mikal became the darling of the NBA but OG around here became "overrated". Outside of Mikal, OG is probably next up in terms of young multi-positional all NBA D guys who can also get you 20 a night.
Yea I think on paper it looks like we are lacking in the scoring
We have always been a scoring team that lacks defense. That’s the strength of our OLD big 3.
Now we have more balance. Only 2 chuckers and many supporters. OG is a perfect 3rd wheel ON PAPER. I wish Grimes was still starting just to see him and OG together.
Thibs must be wetting the bed with this defensive versatility on both ends. Don’t sleep on DDV defense. And no more Hart playing PF.
DLeethal wrote:Somehow Mikal became the darling of the NBA but OG around here became "overrated". Outside of Mikal, OG is probably next up in terms of young multi-positional all NBA D guys who can also get you 20 a night.
Injury history is probably the only difference here.
So it seems like the long term plan is Brunson, OG, Randle and Mitch with a SG upgrade at some point (Murray, Mitchell or Booker on the high end.)
Grimes and some salary likely goes out along with the picks.
Bench rotation would be DDV, Hart, Hartenstein (resigned) and McBride.
Bridges is the better player more durable and is on a great contract. He’s making 21, 23, 24MM, imagine having to pay someone 35-40MM that doesn’t rebound as good as Jalen Brunson. You’re 6’7 and can’t grab 4rbs what is going on?
Why has Toronto been so bad?
It’s a lot to give up for someone there’s not signed
MS wrote:Bridges is the better player more durable and is on a great contract. He’s making 21, 23, 24MM, imagine having to pay someone 35-40MM that doesn’t rebound as good as Jalen Brunson. You’re 6’7 and can’t grab 4rbs what is going on? Why has Toronto been so bad?
It’s a lot to give up for someone there’s not signed
Well let's file a lawsuit against the Nets and trade for Bridges
MS wrote:Bridges is the better player more durable and is on a great contract. He;s making 21, 23, 24MM, imagine having to pay someone 35-40MM that doesn;t rebound as good as Jalen Brunson. Youre 6'7 and can;t grab 4rbs what is going on? Why has Toronto been so bad?
Its a lot to give up for someone there;s not signed
Rebounds or not, there's no way he's worth $40m. I would not pay him more than JB and Randle. How does that make sense?
He's repped by Leon's son and the noise has already been that he was willing to sacrifice money to come to NY. Not worried in the least about getting fleeced and paying him more than Brunson and Randle tbh.
MS wrote:Bridges is the better player more durable and is on a great contract. He’s making 21, 23, 24MM, imagine having to pay someone 35-40MM that doesn’t rebound as good as Jalen Brunson. You’re 6’7 and can’t grab 4rbs what is going on? Why has Toronto been so bad?
It’s a lot to give up for someone there’s not signed
Bridges is better. But in that mold of player who is next between Bridges and OG? OG is probably the next best thing in that mold of player still in their mid 20s.
Toronto is a bad team. Not sure why you keep harping on this. Plenty of really good players on bad teams all over the league.
EwingsGlass wrote:Funny. Random thoughts.
If the Knicks decline their option on Fournier and clear their cap holds, and work out an extension with OG similar to Hart’s where he opts in to his 19mm option, there’s a world where they have 27mm in cap space this offseason. I mean, they are a haircut away from signing Donovan Mitchell outright. Cavs would be inclined to sort out a deal sooner rather than later.
And if we are watching the CAA vs Klutch battle, I’d make a guess that JJJ is gonna come back on the Knicks radar in the short-term. I note Julius left CAA in September. Classic foreshadowing?
Last thought is that I like Precious Achiuwa. Raw power in this guy. 24 years old. Could use some fundamentals but wow does he add some athleticism to this team.
This is interesting and first I've heard this. But I would totally see this FO and Brock Aller doing everything they can to leave room for DM. Now THAT would be something.
blkexec wrote:Yea I think on paper it looks like we are lacking in the scoring
We have always been a scoring team that lacks defense. That’s the strength of our OLD big 3.
Now we have more balance. Only 2 chuckers and many supporters. OG is a perfect 3rd wheel ON PAPER. I wish Grimes was still starting just to see him and OG together.
Thibs must be wetting the bed with this defensive versatility on both ends. Don’t sleep on DDV defense. And no more Hart playing PF.
Need some scoring punch now on the 2nd unit. I think we can find that in the draft
happy new year y'all.
just wanted to re-iterate just how awesome this trade is for both teams. rare talent for talent deal that gave both teams what they were looking for.
i remember a year ago when the og rumors first started, i came here and said the deal would probably have to be something like quickley + obi + frp - and i think a ton of you yelled at me and told me to f off lol. this is slightly better imho. rj's better than obi and the detroit 2nd (which will be 31 or 32) might have more value than picks 25-30 simply b/c the contracts are not gauranteed and you can dip into the 2nd round exception to pay the contract. since we started winning 10 years ago, masai's deals aren't for dumps and picks - he wants young players that can play now and develop - hence why the fournier + picks never appealed to him, while that may appeal to many other gm's. for masai, iq >>>> 2 frp's unless they are totally unprotected - and imho, i agree with that.
i view rj as a transitional player. play him more against other bench units. reduce his usage and try to get his efficiency up. but i don't think he's a raptor for all 3 years left on his deal unless he actually does become more efficient.
synopsis of the guys you are getting:
og is a high end defender. if thibs play an aggressive defense (though not having mitch hurts), then og will get a ton of steals too (led the league last year). he can hit the catch and shoot 3. he can finish in transition. asking him to iso in the half court or pump fake and drive is an absolute adventure b/c he doesn't have good handles and constantly turns the ball over in those situations or gets block - so if you expand his offensive role, this part of his game will definitely frustrate you. but you need og on the roster for that next move for a star (if that happens). my guess is that you re-sign him for $35-40 mil a year.
precious is a very good defender too but he needs to be put in a box. he can switch and guard multiple positions. he had like a 2 month stretch in 21/22 where he was awesome from 3 - and that got us all excited at his future prospect but that's all it was. those 2 months made me think he could potentially be an og replacement down the road but unfortunately, he's not a smart player and has awful hands. can finish in transition but thibs needs to make him a defender and keep him in the dunkers spot unless his 3 somehow comes back. again, he's not a smart player - dont ask him to do too much. he will frustrate you at times.
flynn isn't really worth a mention but he's not a top 9 rotation guard. he plays scared, doesn't hit enough shots and has confidence issues. nurse killed his confidence and never played him. darko did give him alot of rope and time this year but he still wasn't very good. he's contract fodder and may not be in the nba next year.
