Knicks · Knicks finalizing trade for OG: It’s bad - badass for Knicks, bad for rest of league BOO YA (page 26)

martin @ 1/11/2024 9:26 AM
Really liked reading this one

https://nypost.com/2024/01/11/sports/how...

How the Knicks' OG Anunoby trade echoes their historic Dave DeBusschere deal
Stefan Bondy


OG Anunoby is not Dave DeBusschere.

That is not what I’m saying. I couldn’t possibly, in good conscience — and no matter how difficult it is to resist recency bias and dismiss the players I’m too young to remember — tell you Anunoby belongs in the same stratosphere as a top-75 all-time player.

Plus the Knicks, when they traded for DeBusschere in 1968, were further along the path to a championship. They didn’t realize it at the time, of course. But they had all the pieces in place, including a point guard waiting to break out into superstardom.

And as that stylish point guard explained when I approached him last week with my idea for this piece, DeBusschere was the final piece for Red Holzman’s Knicks.

Tom Thibodeau’s Knicks, Clyde Frazier added, need another trade. Anunoby is the piece before the piece.

Fair and probably true.

The Knicks look like world beaters with Anunoby, but five games is too small a sample size to make grand proclamations about championship contention.

Knicks forward Dave DeBusschere, acquired in a franchise-altering 1968 trade, puts up a shot from the corner. Getty Images

Again, that’s not the point of this story. This is about the strategic impact of the two mid-season trades, set almost exactly 55 years apart with very similar reverberations down the respective rosters. It’s about dominoes falling in all the right places.

Let me explain further.

At the start of the 1968-69 season, the Knicks, as award-winning filmmaker Dan Klores told me recently, had too many offensive-minded players. There was talent, but it was a bad fit with poor spacing and players out of position.

Walt Bellamy, a center and former All-Star, needed the ball and clogged the middle. Howie Komives was a chucker guard off the bench. Neither had much interest in defense.

They were sent to Detroit for DeBusschere, a defensive demon who was so smart — and such a leader — he was named the Pistons’ player-coach at 24 years old.

DeBusschere’s addition gave the Knicks somebody to guard the opposition’s elite wings and frontcourt players — whether Billy Cunningham or Gus Johnson or Connie Hawkins — but the larger impact is what the shakeup did for the rest of the roster.

Willis Reed moved from power forward to center. That worked out well. His subsequent MVP award and two Finals MVPs can attest to that.

Walt Frazier elevated his game following the acquisition of Dave DeBusschere and helped lead the Knicks to two titles. Focus on Sport via Getty Images

Frazier went from averaging 26.2 minutes in the 25 games before the trade to 42.6 minutes for the remaining 46 games. Sounds like a winning formula. The shots and opportunities with the ball were redistributed heavily toward the best players, specifically Frazier, Reed and Dick Barnett.

DeBusschere, meanwhile, was highly effective playing off the ball, elevating the Knicks’ defense while adeptly knocking down jumpers from the corner.

Sound familiar? Just replace DeBusschere with Anunoby, plus swap out Bellamy and Komives for RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley.

“Where the improvement lies is the similarities: more spacing, better defense, less guys need the ball,” said Klores, the director of the documentary series, “Basketball: A Love Story.”

“It’s unfair to compare OG to DeBusschere. But it’s correct that he helps the team in the same ways as DeBusschere.”

The DeBusschere impact was immediate, if you remember. The Knicks beat Bellamy and the Pistons by 48 points in DeBusschere’s first game, then captured 13 of their next 14.

Jalen Brunson has adapted to his extra responsibility after RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley were dealt for OG Anunoby. Getty Images

Now it’s Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle leading a five-game winning streak for the Knicks, largely with increased responsibilities after the departures of Quickley and Barrett.

The sample is small but utterly dominant. Anunoby’s plus-minus through 164 minutes is a ridiculous +115, a record for a player’s first five games with a new team. Not even DeBusschere could claim that number.

“There have been times in all sports where a late-season and in-season trade is made, and the team catches on fire. So I hope and pray to God, also Allah, that this is it,” Spike Lee, the most famous of Knicks fans, said recently. “And he doesn’t need the ball. He can shoot from the corner. And his D is stifling. Rebounding. He can play anybody 1 through 5. You can put him on Giannis, you can put him on Tatum. And he’ll nullify them.

“We’re still one piece away, though,” Lee added. “So I’m very anxious to see what Mr. [Leon] Rose is going to do. We all know we have a stockpile of draft choices. And people are saying, ‘What are you waiting for? What are you waiting for?’ Well, he knows better than me. He’s the team president. But I hope this is not the end with OG.”

Lee didn’t want to identify his ideal target — “I don’t want to jinx it, they still blame me for Reggie Miller,” he said — but he’s hopeful for “orange-and-blue skies.”

Knicks fans such as Spike Lee understand OG Anunoby isn’t the final piece of building a title contender. Charles Wenzelberg/New York Post

After all, it’s been 50-plus years since DeBusschere, Frazier, Reed, Barnett and Earl Monroe gave the Knicks their last championship.

“I loved that team. We’re due,” Lee said. “Fiddy years. F-I-D-D-Y. That’s how we spell it in Brooklyn.”
Swings of Leon

Speaking of in-season trades, give credit to the silent team president for pulling off some highly productive swaps in his four-year tenure.

In 2021, the Derrick Rose trade propelled the Knicks to the fourth seed. In 2023, the Josh Hart deal catapulted them to the franchise’s first playoff series win in a decade.

Now there’s Anunoby.

It’s not quite on the level of the DeBusschere or Monroe trades, but it’s certainly better than other in-season deals of the past 25 years: Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway coming from the Suns in 2004, Tracy McGrady coming from the Rockets in 2010, Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith for Lance Thomas and Lou Admundson in 2015.

The big trades involving Kristaps Porzingis (2019) and Carmelo Anthony (2011) also were completed during the season. Grade them how you will. I still think the Knicks could’ve done a lot better with Porzingis.

‘D’ mattered in IQ trade

Emptying my notebook on the Anunoby trade, I can share a few items:

The Knicks wanted to get big, which was a concern as their defense plummeted in December.

My understanding is that while Quickley’s defensive rating is strong, Thibodeau wasn’t a believer the statistic held up for the guard.

Why? Quickley can defend point guards, but he can’t guard wings and in the NBA there are a bunch of wing-sized players who play point guard (ahem, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander).

In the second-to-last game of Quickley’s tenure in New York, he was playing exceptionally on offense against the Thunder, but was subbed out with four minutes left because of a size disparity on defense.

Emblematic and prophetic.

The Knicks lost the game, and completed the trade three days later.

So there was a concern the Knicks needed to get bigger on the perimeter for defense. It’s also not new from Thibodeau, who was giving minutes to stronger guards Alec Burks and Elfrid Payton over Quickley in years prior.

And Quickley, while highly valued for his offensive production, became the conduit to Anunoby because RJ Barrett’s contract (with four years and more than $100 million remaining) was viewed as a negative asset.

“There was only one real taker,” a source said, referring to Barrett’s hometown team in Toronto.

SergioNYK @ 1/11/2024 9:29 AM
fishmike wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:
fishmike wrote:I like to keep coming back here and to this thread to read about just how BAD this trade and this player are. Thanks again MS!

You're not batting 100% either man.

I am today.

MS doesnt like the FO, doesnt like Thibs, doesnt like Randle and will mention our low ceilings because of this every chance he gets. Im super comfortable with gloating when the Knicks are on the winning side of whatever.

Bottom line is this FO shows patience once again. Not only did they wait and get a very team friendly OG deal (who's an amazing fit) but they seemed to know exactly what they had w/ McBride and extended/elevated him immediately post trade and that's also looking GREAT.

We still dont have Jokic, Giannis, Curry or Luka so who cares right?

Being a Frank stan is going to be on your fan resume for at least 7 years.

Nalod @ 1/11/2024 9:36 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
martin wrote:Deep fried crow. Sauteed crow. Crow pie.

Some of my favs.

Crow kebab. Forgot that one.

Favorite Bird: Crow
Favorite Dessert: Crow Pie
Favorite Country: Crowatia
Favorite Tool: CrowBar
Favorite Hominid: CrowMagnum Man
Favorite Crustacean: CrowDaddy
Favorite Syndication: CrowFunding
Favorite Celestial Event: CrowTal Eclipse
Favorite Player: Crow G Anunoby

Sorry. Got carried away. By a crow.

Nalod @ 1/11/2024 9:41 AM
Notice the turnaround the last few years.

Mook Morris: Kansas player, traded for pick. Kentucky IQ.
Randle: Kentucky
RJ: Duke.
The Villanova guys,, Brunson, Josh and DDV. Archie is mascot
OG: Kansas.
Grimes: Kansas and a good Houstan program.

Nothing is absolute and we do have some very good outliers but for years we did not do this. We rarely drafted or we starphucked.

Chandler @ 1/11/2024 10:21 AM
Nalod wrote:Notice the turnaround the last few years.

Mook Morris: Kansas player, traded for pick. Kentucky IQ.
Randle: Kentucky
RJ: Duke.
The Villanova guys,, Brunson, Josh and DDV. Archie is mascot
OG: Kansas.
Grimes: Kansas and a good Houstan program.

Nothing is absolute and we do have some very good outliers but for years we did not do this. We rarely drafted or we starphucked.

OG was Indiana, not Kansas but whatever...

fishmike @ 1/11/2024 3:42 PM
SergioNYK wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:
fishmike wrote:I like to keep coming back here and to this thread to read about just how BAD this trade and this player are. Thanks again MS!

You're not batting 100% either man.

I am today.

MS doesnt like the FO, doesnt like Thibs, doesnt like Randle and will mention our low ceilings because of this every chance he gets. Im super comfortable with gloating when the Knicks are on the winning side of whatever.

Bottom line is this FO shows patience once again. Not only did they wait and get a very team friendly OG deal (who's an amazing fit) but they seemed to know exactly what they had w/ McBride and extended/elevated him immediately post trade and that's also looking GREAT.

We still dont have Jokic, Giannis, Curry or Luka so who cares right?

Being a Frank stan is going to be on your fan resume for at least 7 years.

all he needs is minutes
Nalod @ 1/11/2024 11:01 PM
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Notice the turnaround the last few years.

Mook Morris: Kansas player, traded for pick. Kentucky IQ.
Randle: Kentucky
RJ: Duke.
The Villanova guys,, Brunson, Josh and DDV. Archie is mascot
OG: Kansas.
Grimes: Kansas and a good Houstan program.

Nothing is absolute and we do have some very good outliers but for years we did not do this. We rarely drafted or we starphucked.

OG was Indiana, not Kansas but whatever...

Good catch. you right,

martin @ 1/14/2024 4:02 PM
martin @ 1/18/2024 7:41 AM
fishmike @ 1/18/2024 9:21 AM
https://streamable.com/xz70df

vs. one of the better scoring bigs in the game... "it's bad!"

GustavBahler @ 1/18/2024 9:37 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
martin wrote:Deep fried crow. Sauteed crow. Crow pie.

Some of my favs.

Crow kebab. Forgot that one.

Favorite Bird: Crow
Favorite Dessert: Crow Pie
Favorite Country: Crowatia
Favorite Tool: CrowBar
Favorite Hominid: CrowMagnum Man
Favorite Crustacean: CrowDaddy
Favorite Syndication: CrowFunding
Favorite Celestial Event: CrowTal Eclipse
Favorite Player: Crow G Anunoby

Sorry. Got carried away. By a crow.

You forgot..

Favorite Movie "The Crow"

martin @ 1/18/2024 2:47 PM
fishmike @ 1/18/2024 3:16 PM
martin wrote:
its the Thibs dream player. He's an absolute star and a legit "closer to a championship" piece to have. It really changes the feel of the team when you have a guy like OG to chase around Jimmy Butler or Jaylen Brown or Wagner or whoever the nightmare matchup for us on the wing was gonna be come playoffs. Crunchtime defense especially when Randle/Brunson are going 100% on both ends
martin @ 1/20/2024 2:17 AM
This is definitely not bad:

newyorknewyork @ 1/20/2024 7:59 AM
martin wrote:This is definitely not bad:

What we all hoped and dreamed that Frank developed himself into for us.

SergioNYK @ 1/20/2024 11:20 AM
If it continues, OGA should be in consideration for DPOTY.
martin @ 1/20/2024 11:57 AM
SergioNYK wrote:If it continues, OGA should be in consideration for DPOTY.

Right next to Mitch who only misses cause of lack of games

martin @ 1/20/2024 11:01 PM
Not bad

martin @ 1/20/2024 11:58 PM
Seems OK

EwingsGlass @ 1/21/2024 12:02 AM
martin wrote:Seems OK

Feels… crow-like.

SupremeCommander @ 1/21/2024 9:41 AM
lol @ everyone shitting on this trade
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