It’s going to be a lot easier to find a sixth man than a starting wing.
How about Jordan Clarkson type?
martin wrote:How about Jordan Clarkson type?
Yeah, dealing with Ainge should be fun. 
Knixkik wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:If Grimes can play like he did last year, then DDV can be an excellent 6 the man. If that works out we can trade Evans contract for a good center. Just would you trade for a center and then next season trade one of our three centers or let Heart leave, perhaps after a sign and trade. You could trade for Capella, Vucevic, Robert Williams from Portland for example. Then you could even keep that new player and Heart and trade Mitch. Just throwing out options
.
DDV isn’t creating offense. He’s best used as a spot up shooter. Now if the Knicks add someone like Murray or Mitchell they can just stagger more and you can live with DDV and Hart off the bench.
I've been arguing in favor of getting Murray and using DDV in a primary three guard lineup with Brunson. I'd rather start Murray with Brunson cause those are the two better players and use DDV off the bench. But I see your point and don't disagree. Main point is make that type of trade now Leon and front office have periods where they think well and periods where they think bad. A few years ago they signed Evan, Kemba, and kept Noel and Burke's, and that was bad. This off-season they got Devo and took a while and finally moved to improve the roster design by getting OG, so while they are doing well, let them strike and finish the process before they shut down their good idea period. The front office runs hot and cold. Let them do some good before they talk themselves out of it.Front office is not terrible but they do have their good and bad periods, let's strike while their logic is working well. Doesn't have to be Murray but while the front office has its mojo let the do a deal.
Brogdon just makes so much sense.
- Knicks have a recent successful trade history with Portland
- Portland is rebuilding and wants picks
- Brogdon has an expiring 23M salary next year to use for any star trade
- Hes almost a like for like replacement for Quickley on offense as a combo guard
- He’s CAA and that always comes in useful
Knicks have the Fournier contract to match but also save a little money for Portland. And I’m guessing his cost wouldn’t be more than a protected pick similar to what Hart was last year. Brogdon is injury prone but off the bench in a 20 mpg role he would be the safety net on offense we need. He’s also pretty close to an elite 3pt shooter and isn’t a defensive liability. The most important thing is trading a protected first (either one of our 2024 picks or the Detriot, Washington or Milwaukee pick) would have zero impact on our ability to trade for another star in the future. If Murray becomes available good, but I am not sure what Atlantas motivation would be. Only reason OG got moved is because of his contract status. And same with Siakam possibly getting moved. Top 50 guys don’t get traded unless they ask out or their contracts are a concern.
hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.
we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
I’d like to see DDV, Hart, Grimes and OG get more plays.
nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
I agree maybe Brogdon ain't the guy, but it all depends on the deal. But I disagree this is the time to be complacent. We sat on our hands when KP was available, you have said one time or two right 😂. So it's time for the Knicks to seize the day and get better right now. We have the options, waiting for a deal that is perfect beyond measure can be a mistake. Other teams out there are going to act if we don't. The league ain't waiting around for us on our time.
Alpha1971 wrote:nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
I agree maybe Brogdon ain't the guy, but it all depends on the deal. But I disagree this is the time to be complacent. We sat on our hands when KP was available, you have said one time or two right 😂. So it's time for the Knicks to seize the day and get better right now. We have the options, waiting for a deal that is perfect beyond measure can be a mistake. Other teams out there are going to act if we don't. The league ain't waiting around for us on our time.
KP is young and a game changer on both ends and wouldn't have benched one of our young players.
Brogdon and Clarkson are old and not game changers on either end and would bench Grimes again.
Not even remotely the same, no one said complacent, but we shouldn't be trading assets and benching Grimes unless we are getting back a really good young player who is a substantial upgrade. that's making trades just for the sake of it and not something Leon has done.
nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.
Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.
Knicks need a secondary ball handler real bad. Teams will press and trap them and try to wear down Brunson.
Brogdon is a decent fit. I dunno if there's a way to get Collin Sexton.
Burks can come off the bench and get his own shot, can bring the ball up some, or slot in as a shooter, and he defends. It makes a lot of sense to have him as a piece - how do you keep Thibs from relying on him for too many minutes is the other question.
Otherwise you look at Grimes and say - hey, you're coming off the bench but now you have the green light on offense the way Quickley did. Attack the rim, look for your shot and bring us the defensive intensity and you'll play your way into closing games.
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.
Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.
DDV, hart, Miles and Flynn can all handle the ball. and we have Rokas waiting in the wings.
Clarkson is an inefficient high volume non shooter who doesn't defend. Playing him over Grimes doesn't make us better.
I agree with this. We are not built to withstand any sort of Brunson injury right now. We need a secondary point guard. I actually think Brogdan might make more sense than Murray at this point. I think with Murray you have a starting SG who can start at PG in an injury and also stagger with Brunson to run the second unit. But he's another ball stopper/dribbler with the starters which we just went away from and it looked beautiful. With Brogdan you have a true 6th man, ace shooter, Brunson fill-in, good team defender as well. Brogdan probably comes cheaper. He looks like the missing piece for this year IMO.
nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.
Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.
DDV, hart, Miles and Flynn can all handle the ball. and we have Rokas waiting in the wings.
Clarkson is an inefficient high volume non shooter who doesn't defend. Playing him over Grimes doesn't make us better.
Not at playoff level they can't.
Plus you miss my point entirely.
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.
Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.
DDV, hart, Miles and Flynn can all handle the ball. and we have Rokas waiting in the wings.
Clarkson is an inefficient high volume non shooter who doesn't defend. Playing him over Grimes doesn't make us better.
Not at playoff level they can't.
Plus you miss my point entirely.
i get your point but we SHOULD get caught up in minutes b/c that was a big reason for that two for 1 trade.
If we're not going to develop Grimes might as well trade him for DJ then.
But to bench him for an old inefficient player like Clarkson?
Alpha1971 wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Hart is fine as a 6th man for now.I do think Grimes is very important to this team, in an ideal world he can score enough to start, play 30mpg and improve our defense even more and allow DDV to play with the 2nd unit.
DDV
Hart
Ihart
are 3 HIGH END bench players. maybe next season we can bring Rokas over.
Hart is fine as 6 man.... What like he was good for back up 4. Man o man, still drunk from last night 😂😂 man o man, No !
Yup he was more than fine at backup PF as well, we only ran into troubles when Mitch got hurt and Grimes got benched.
Must have had one hell of a night. Black coffee and sleep it off. If Mitch was still on the team, team would still be way better with Hart playing against players his size. Size matters in sex and basketball my friend the NBA is not FIFA. Size ans skill and versatility is essential. Hart has not had the impact that he had last season because he was stretched out of his role. Just because he can rebound doesn't mean he should be a PF and just because he can score and push the ball that he is a 6 man. Hart is essential but optimize his production by keeping him in his appropriate niche
Agreed. We more so should be leaning toward obtaining a forward(3/4) & big(4/5) who can space the floor. As these are elements that we lack. Pushing Harts mins toward 2/3.
nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.
Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.
DDV, hart, Miles and Flynn can all handle the ball. and we have Rokas waiting in the wings.
Clarkson is an inefficient high volume non shooter who doesn't defend. Playing him over Grimes doesn't make us better.
Not at playoff level they can't.
Plus you miss my point entirely.
i get your point but we SHOULD get caught up in minutes b/c that was a big reason for that two for 1 trade.
If we're not going to develop Grimes might as well trade him for DJ then.
But to bench him for an old inefficient player like Clarkson?
I'm not talking about benching or talking away minutes from Grimes at all.
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?
Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.
Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.
Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.
Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.
DDV, hart, Miles and Flynn can all handle the ball. and we have Rokas waiting in the wings.
Clarkson is an inefficient high volume non shooter who doesn't defend. Playing him over Grimes doesn't make us better.
Not at playoff level they can't.
Plus you miss my point entirely.
i get your point but we SHOULD get caught up in minutes b/c that was a big reason for that two for 1 trade.
If we're not going to develop Grimes might as well trade him for DJ then.
But to bench him for an old inefficient player like Clarkson?
I'm not talking about benching or talking away minutes from Grimes at all.
Bringing in Brogdon or Clarkson absolutely does that though whether directly or indirectly.
Or else you're cutting DDV, the minutes gotta come from somewhere unless they are coming here to take a 7-10mpg role that Miles has.
I think DDV and Grimes getting more minutes and cohesion is a big reason for the OG trade and I don't see us in a rush to squash that unless it's for a legit star player.
lets be real IQ under playoff pressure wasn't a good ballhandler either.
but the FO knows we would need another guy like that and thats why we got Flynn for insurance he can at least do that.
Bogdanovic - shooting and spacing
DeRozan - elite / kills spacing and takes grimes out of equation but would make use tough to beat if minutes are staggered
Tyus - elite playmaking off the bench would take a first rounder for an expiring, but could reduce Brunson load
Caruso - likely would cost McBride and a 1st and 2nd, not much offense, but would give Knicks the best defense in the league
Clarkson - low percentage player, good contract and can score in bunches and win a playoff game
Or best case scenario, Grimes realizes he has a first step starts looking at the basket everytime he touches it and starts attacking and playmaking which he has in him…
Scary Terry Rozier is another name on a bad team that's probably gonna be available. You know he can put up points and he can create a bit, but not sure he fits in here with the minutes etc.
