Knicks · Knicks look good, but now they need a new 6th man (page 3)

Scary Terry Rozier is another name on a bad team that's probably gonna be available. You know he can put up points and he can create a bit, but not sure he fits in here with the minutes etc.

nycericanguy wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.

we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?

Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.

Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.

I agree maybe Brogdon ain't the guy, but it all depends on the deal. But I disagree this is the time to be complacent. We sat on our hands when KP was available, you have said one time or two right 😂. So it's time for the Knicks to seize the day and get better right now. We have the options, waiting for a deal that is perfect beyond measure can be a mistake. Other teams out there are going to act if we don't. The league ain't waiting around for us on our time.

KP is young and a game changer on both ends and wouldn't have benched one of our young players.

Brogdon and Clarkson are old and not game changers on either end and would bench Grimes again.

Not even remotely the same, no one said complacent, but we shouldn't be trading assets and benching Grimes unless we are getting back a really good young player who is a substantial upgrade. that's making trades just for the sake of it and not something Leon has done.

I get it you just like to have a contrary argument all the time. I get it 🤣 Playoffs made IQ shrink and you want to rely on Grimes...Less risky then getting KP would be to get a secondary ball handler and shooter like Murray. Then during the off-season with the draft and trades add mobile bigs or another wing. There are no perfect trades going to make this team elite just waiting for us on a silver platter and what we have is not enough. But I applaud your dogged defense of your argument. What we have is not enough and another season isn't going to make it a little better.

I don't see how anyone could say we don't need a legitimate ball handling PG off the bench. I think the scale of PG / warranted minutes can be argued but someone to lead the bench unit and fill in when Brunson gets injured is a need.

DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Rokas being a young/prime Pablo Prigioni and coming over would be sweet but I don't think we can expect that to happen.

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Part of me wants a legit bench player after seeing the free flowing ball movement/cutting of the first unit with DDV and OG. Adding another pounder to the starters just puts RJ back there on offense.

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Part of me wants a legit bench player after seeing the free flowing ball movement/cutting of the first unit with DDV and OG. Adding another pounder to the starters just puts RJ back there on offense.

we got rid of TWO high usage scorers, I think theres room for and probably a need for a 3rd scorer that can create. DJ solves alot for us right now, he didn't make so much sense before but he fits this team well.

He also led the league in deflections 2 years ago, he's long and like DDV will get into the passing lanes.

I don't see us trading for older players and nuetering Grimes again nor should we.

I think Flynn was bought in as that emergency ball handler for now, and he could end up taking Miles spot if Miles doesn't step up.

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Whose DJ, Dejaunte Murray ? If so I agree.

DLeethal wrote:Rokas being a young/prime Pablo Prigioni and coming over would be sweet but I don't think we can expect that to happen.

I wonder if another team would give us something for his rights ? Team like the Wizards or Detroit can give him lots of time to develop. Wonder what's his value in a trade.

Is there a player who can take McBrides minutes (and not take away from Grimes) who can provide playmaking off the bench in a small role ? I keep coming back to Tyus jones, who would be perfect, but as a free agent I don’t see him resigning here for such a limited role. We need a shot creator/ playmaker off the bench though. It’s not as simple as putting the ball in Grimes hands more. He’s not that guy.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.

we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?

Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.

Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.

Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.

Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.

DDV, hart, Miles and Flynn can all handle the ball. and we have Rokas waiting in the wings.

Clarkson is an inefficient high volume non shooter who doesn't defend. Playing him over Grimes doesn't make us better.

Not at playoff level they can't.

Plus you miss my point entirely.

i get your point but we SHOULD get caught up in minutes b/c that was a big reason for that two for 1 trade.

If we're not going to develop Grimes might as well trade him for DJ then.

But to bench him for an old inefficient player like Clarkson?

I'm not talking about benching or talking away minutes from Grimes at all.

Bringing in Brogdon or Clarkson absolutely does that though whether directly or indirectly.

Or else you're cutting DDV, the minutes gotta come from somewhere unless they are coming here to take a 7-10mpg role that Miles has.

I think DDV and Grimes getting more minutes and cohesion is a big reason for the OG trade and I don't see us in a rush to squash that unless it's for a legit star player.

lets be real IQ under playoff pressure wasn't a good ballhandler either.

but the FO knows we would need another guy like that and thats why we got Flynn for insurance he can at least do that.

I think Flynn was just a throw in for insurance. I don’t see him playing much. We don’t want to take away minutes from grimes. I like McBride and am fine with them resigning him but I don’t see him as a rotation player right now. He’s an excellent guy to use for certain defensive matchups. Like using a nickel CB in football. But with hart and grimes playing big roles off the bench, we need some scoring beside them. They are not shot creators.

Knixkik wrote:Is there a player who can take McBrides minutes (and not take away from Grimes) who can provide playmaking off the bench in a small role ? I keep coming back to Tyus jones, who would be perfect, but as a free agent I don’t see him resigning here for such a limited role. We need a shot creator/ playmaker off the bench though. It’s not as simple as putting the ball in Grimes hands more. He’s not that guy.

Flynn...

I mean no GOOD ballhandler/playmaker is going to come here to play 10mpg. So do you want to cut DDV and Grimes minutes for a guy that sucks just b/c he has better handles? I don;t...

McBride getting an extension right away and the timing of the trade to me means that Thibs told the front office that he's ready to play regularly. We know Deuce has no lack of confidence and can hound the ball defensively. He has a bit of a mid range shot and he's looked better shooting the 3 lately. I think we have to watch how it plays out with him. I don't think Thibs would have been ready to give up IQ if not for Deuce.

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.

we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?

Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.

Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.

Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.

Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.

DDV, hart, Miles and Flynn can all handle the ball. and we have Rokas waiting in the wings.

Clarkson is an inefficient high volume non shooter who doesn't defend. Playing him over Grimes doesn't make us better.

Not at playoff level they can't.

Plus you miss my point entirely.

i get your point but we SHOULD get caught up in minutes b/c that was a big reason for that two for 1 trade.

If we're not going to develop Grimes might as well trade him for DJ then.

But to bench him for an old inefficient player like Clarkson?

I'm not talking about benching or talking away minutes from Grimes at all.

Bringing in Brogdon or Clarkson absolutely does that though whether directly or indirectly.

Or else you're cutting DDV, the minutes gotta come from somewhere unless they are coming here to take a 7-10mpg role that Miles has.

I think DDV and Grimes getting more minutes and cohesion is a big reason for the OG trade and I don't see us in a rush to squash that unless it's for a legit star player.

lets be real IQ under playoff pressure wasn't a good ballhandler either.

but the FO knows we would need another guy like that and thats why we got Flynn for insurance he can at least do that.

I think Flynn was just a throw in for insurance. I don’t see him playing much. We don’t want to take away minutes from grimes. I like McBride and am fine with them resigning him but I don’t see him as a rotation player right now. He’s an excellent guy to use for certain defensive matchups. Like using a nickel CB in football. But with hart and grimes playing big roles off the bench, we need some scoring beside them. They are not shot creators.

Malachi is insurance for when we trad the Ryan A. Valuable 4th pg on the bench is covered, ✅

VDesai wrote:McBride getting an extension right away and the timing of the trade to me means that Thibs told the front office that he's ready to play regularly. We know Deuce has no lack of confidence and can hound the ball defensively. He has a bit of a mid range shot and he's looked better shooting the 3 lately. I think we have to watch how it plays out with him. I don't think Thibs would have been ready to give up IQ if not for Deuce.

Deuce passed up open 3s and that disrupts the flow. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt but he is not a creator. Hope I'm wrong.

Alpha1971 wrote:
Malachi is insurance for when we trad the Ryan A. Valuable 4th pg on the bench is covered, ✅

Well... We do have one guard tearing up the G-League with prior NBA experience. Just throwing it out there 😏

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Is there a player who can take McBrides minutes (and not take away from Grimes) who can provide playmaking off the bench in a small role ? I keep coming back to Tyus jones, who would be perfect, but as a free agent I don’t see him resigning here for such a limited role. We need a shot creator/ playmaker off the bench though. It’s not as simple as putting the ball in Grimes hands more. He’s not that guy.

Flynn...

I mean no GOOD ballhandler/playmaker is going to come here to play 10mpg. So do you want to cut DDV and Grimes minutes for a guy that sucks just b/c he has better handles? I don;t...

The problem is Flynn has been pretty bad offensively so far in his career. 38% shooter and his points per minute is very low. I don’t see it.

Flynn has been kind of garbage in the NBA, but he has been a summer league super star. I think he's just fodder at this point. You can't be depending on him as your backup PG.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:
Malachi is insurance for when we trad the Ryan A. Valuable 4th pg on the bench is covered, ✅

Well... We do have one guard tearing up the G-League with prior NBA experience. Just throwing it out there 😏

Sold, you had me at g league

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Is there a player who can take McBrides minutes (and not take away from Grimes) who can provide playmaking off the bench in a small role ? I keep coming back to Tyus jones, who would be perfect, but as a free agent I don’t see him resigning here for such a limited role. We need a shot creator/ playmaker off the bench though. It’s not as simple as putting the ball in Grimes hands more. He’s not that guy.

Flynn...

I mean no GOOD ballhandler/playmaker is going to come here to play 10mpg. So do you want to cut DDV and Grimes minutes for a guy that sucks just b/c he has better handles? I don;t...

The problem is Flynn has been pretty bad offensively so far in his career. 38% shooter and his points per minute is very low. I don’t see it.

I think Miles will be given the shot, but he's been just as bad if not worse offensively.

If Miles can't do it I think Flynn is a fine stop gap for now, he is at least not afraid to let it fly from 3 and shoots 34%, not great but Miles is worse and often afraid to even shoot them.

Flynn has also played that role for good TOR teams

martin wrote:Dejounte Murray!!

For Fournier and lots of picks!

Makes the most sense. Murray is not a star but he's a really good player. Gave us fits last season in a game as you can see. Shoots a good percentage from three so spacing shouldn't be that big of an issue. He can defend the elite guards in the league and you put Brunson the weaker one. He would allow Brunson to play a little off the ball. I think it's a perfect fit. And if it doesn't work, we can trade him. His contract is long but not crazy expensive.

It depends on what direction Landry Fields chooses to go. Trading Murray for Fournier, Grimes and a ton of picks kind of signals a rebuild. He'd probably have to trade Capela and Bogdanvic too.

Brogdan is another option that's realistic. But would he content coming off the bench?

Forgot about Clarkson. Ainge is never doing business with us. At least not fair business.