Knicks · This current Knick team is good, better than last year's but... (page 1)

This team is really good. People like Paul peirce and Perk even think this knicks team can make the eastern conference finals "with a little bit of luck". This team is working very well together, a well oiled machine. All the cogs and sprockets fit well together and thats where the problem starts. For the 1st time in dacades, the players on the team have a defined role to play to make the team run smoothly. But if one gear is missing(jalen's injury), this team starts to struggle. The emergence of IHart filled the loss of mitch perfectly but if something happens to him the knicks have nothing to patch that hole.

Deuce have filled in admirablely in place of Brunson but Jalen just does so much more for the team that its just too big a shoe for Deuce to fill.

The only good thing that i see from all of this is that the FO still has time to make a trade. 1st they have to know what they want this team to accomplish this year, too bad this FO doesnt really tell the fans of any of their approach.

This team still has needs but whats the best trade to make before the deadline that is best for the season and for the future?

Jimbo5 wrote:This team is really good. People like Paul peirce and Perk even think this knicks team can make the eastern conference finals "with a little bit of luck". This team is working very well together, a well oiled machine. All the cogs and sprockets fit well together and thats where the problem starts. For the 1st time in dacades, the players on the team have a defined role to play to make the team run smoothly. But if one gear is missing(jalen's injury), this team starts to struggle. The emergence of IHart filled the loss of mitch perfectly but if something happens to him the knicks have nothing to patch that hole.

Deuce have filled in admirablely in place of Brunson but Jalen just does so much more for the team that its just too big a shoe for Deuce to fill.

The only good thing that i see from all of this is that the FO still has time to make a trade. 1st they have to know what they want this team to accomplish this year, too bad this FO doesnt really tell the fans of any of their approach.

This team still has needs but whats the best trade to make before the deadline that is best for the season and for the future?

I agree with most of what you said but not the bold. I don't need to know the approach or the road map from the FO. I just need them to eexecute what their plan is. I see this often on social media. Why would a FO give up their plans? Just make sure they make the right decisions and let me judge them after the fact.

This team is good, but there's a massive gap in scoring depth. You take away Barrett and Quickley - two legitimate 3rd and 4th scorers averaging 19 and 15 ppg respectively. These guys were often on the floor with the second unit as a lead scorer. They both were capable of going off for 20 or 30 on any given night. Now both are gone and replaced with a very good player, but a guy who's not really lead scoring option for a second unit or a guy who really scores more than 20 that often. So now there's a big gap to make up thats highlighted even more in the absence of one of your 2 lead scorers.

The depth is there to make a deal. Fournier's contact is a core for salary matching, but with the trove of picks we have the assets. I'd also say at this point, you have a superfluous player in Grimes. With Anunoby as your lead wing defender, and Josh Hart as the preferred first wing off the bench, Grimes is playing a tertiary role for wing defense. If Grimes can't come off the bench and be a major scoring threat (he has the talent do so, but he's not putting it together), than I think he's a surplus player to our needs. I think we deal him as he'll be in the same situation as Quickley next year. I would say the same about Jericho Sims at this point, if he's not getting off the bench year 3, then its not clear there's a future here.

We need to make the bench viable, especially on nights where a starter is out. Gotta make a move if we want to get past the first round this year.

VDesai wrote:This team is good, but there's a massive gap in scoring depth. You take away Barrett and Quickley - two legitimate 3rd and 4th scorers averaging 19 and 15 ppg respectively. These guys were often on the floor with the second unit as a lead scorer. They both were capable of going off for 20 or 30 on any given night. Now both are gone and replaced with a very good player, but a guy who's not really lead scoring option for a second unit or a guy who really scores more than 20 that often. So now there's a big gap to make up thats highlighted even more in the absence of one of your 2 lead scorers.

The depth is there to make a deal. Fournier's contact is a core for salary matching, but with the trove of picks we have the assets. I'd also say at this point, you have a superfluous player in Grimes. With Anunoby as your lead wing defender, and Josh Hart as the preferred first wing off the bench, Grimes is playing a tertiary role for wing defense. If Grimes can't come off the bench and be a major scoring threat (he has the talent do so, but he's not putting it together), than I think he's a surplus player to our needs. I think we deal him as he'll be in the same situation as Quickley next year. I would say the same about Jericho Sims at this point, if he's not getting off the bench year 3, then its not clear there's a future here.

We need to make the bench viable, especially on nights where a starter is out. Gotta make a move if we want to get past the first round this year.

OG gives us 15ppg on low usage, so we really only lost 18-20ppg... DJM is sitting out there and solves alot for this team.

nycericanguy wrote:

VDesai wrote:This team is good, but there's a massive gap in scoring depth. You take away Barrett and Quickley - two legitimate 3rd and 4th scorers averaging 19 and 15 ppg respectively. These guys were often on the floor with the second unit as a lead scorer. They both were capable of going off for 20 or 30 on any given night. Now both are gone and replaced with a very good player, but a guy who's not really lead scoring option for a second unit or a guy who really scores more than 20 that often. So now there's a big gap to make up thats highlighted even more in the absence of one of your 2 lead scorers.

The depth is there to make a deal. Fournier's contact is a core for salary matching, but with the trove of picks we have the assets. I'd also say at this point, you have a superfluous player in Grimes. With Anunoby as your lead wing defender, and Josh Hart as the preferred first wing off the bench, Grimes is playing a tertiary role for wing defense. If Grimes can't come off the bench and be a major scoring threat (he has the talent do so, but he's not putting it together), than I think he's a surplus player to our needs. I think we deal him as he'll be in the same situation as Quickley next year. I would say the same about Jericho Sims at this point, if he's not getting off the bench year 3, then its not clear there's a future here.

We need to make the bench viable, especially on nights where a starter is out. Gotta make a move if we want to get past the first round this year.

OG gives us 15ppg on low usage, so we really only lost 18-20ppg... DJM is sitting out there and solves alot for this team.

I was mad a yesterday's loss and have had time to cool down. I'm reading Atlanta wants a minimum of two-first rounders. This year's pick probably won't cut it since Atlanta already has multiple firsts. The fact that Grime's perceived value has fallen also hurts. I'm still not sold on DJM as a fit and I'm not sure I want to throw in a boatload of picks for him. Brogdan also isn't a perfect fit, but I'd rather go for him at a cheaper price.

BigDaddyG wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

VDesai wrote:This team is good, but there's a massive gap in scoring depth. You take away Barrett and Quickley - two legitimate 3rd and 4th scorers averaging 19 and 15 ppg respectively. These guys were often on the floor with the second unit as a lead scorer. They both were capable of going off for 20 or 30 on any given night. Now both are gone and replaced with a very good player, but a guy who's not really lead scoring option for a second unit or a guy who really scores more than 20 that often. So now there's a big gap to make up thats highlighted even more in the absence of one of your 2 lead scorers.

The depth is there to make a deal. Fournier's contact is a core for salary matching, but with the trove of picks we have the assets. I'd also say at this point, you have a superfluous player in Grimes. With Anunoby as your lead wing defender, and Josh Hart as the preferred first wing off the bench, Grimes is playing a tertiary role for wing defense. If Grimes can't come off the bench and be a major scoring threat (he has the talent do so, but he's not putting it together), than I think he's a surplus player to our needs. I think we deal him as he'll be in the same situation as Quickley next year. I would say the same about Jericho Sims at this point, if he's not getting off the bench year 3, then its not clear there's a future here.

We need to make the bench viable, especially on nights where a starter is out. Gotta make a move if we want to get past the first round this year.

OG gives us 15ppg on low usage, so we really only lost 18-20ppg... DJM is sitting out there and solves alot for this team.

I was mad a yesterday's loss and have had time to cool down. I'm reading Atlanta wants a minimum of two-first rounders. This year's pick probably won't cut it since Atlanta already has multiple firsts. The fact that Grime's perceived value has fallen also hurts. I'm still not sold on DJM as a fit and I'm not sure I want to throw in a boatload of picks for him. Brogdan also isn't a perfect fit, but I'd rather go for him at a cheaper price.

I'd much rather give Grimes and 2 firsts for DJM then 1 first for Brogs.

DJM is better, younger, has more future trade value and is not injury prone.

And even if you trade for Brogs and keep Grimes you're essentially benching Duece and Grimes to get Brogs minutes so it wouldn't be a huge loss to trade Grimes for DJM

nycericanguy wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

VDesai wrote:This team is good, but there's a massive gap in scoring depth. You take away Barrett and Quickley - two legitimate 3rd and 4th scorers averaging 19 and 15 ppg respectively. These guys were often on the floor with the second unit as a lead scorer. They both were capable of going off for 20 or 30 on any given night. Now both are gone and replaced with a very good player, but a guy who's not really lead scoring option for a second unit or a guy who really scores more than 20 that often. So now there's a big gap to make up thats highlighted even more in the absence of one of your 2 lead scorers.

The depth is there to make a deal. Fournier's contact is a core for salary matching, but with the trove of picks we have the assets. I'd also say at this point, you have a superfluous player in Grimes. With Anunoby as your lead wing defender, and Josh Hart as the preferred first wing off the bench, Grimes is playing a tertiary role for wing defense. If Grimes can't come off the bench and be a major scoring threat (he has the talent do so, but he's not putting it together), than I think he's a surplus player to our needs. I think we deal him as he'll be in the same situation as Quickley next year. I would say the same about Jericho Sims at this point, if he's not getting off the bench year 3, then its not clear there's a future here.

We need to make the bench viable, especially on nights where a starter is out. Gotta make a move if we want to get past the first round this year.

OG gives us 15ppg on low usage, so we really only lost 18-20ppg... DJM is sitting out there and solves alot for this team.

I was mad a yesterday's loss and have had time to cool down. I'm reading Atlanta wants a minimum of two-first rounders. This year's pick probably won't cut it since Atlanta already has multiple firsts. The fact that Grime's perceived value has fallen also hurts. I'm still not sold on DJM as a fit and I'm not sure I want to throw in a boatload of picks for him. Brogdan also isn't a perfect fit, but I'd rather go for him at a cheaper price.

I'd much rather give Grimes and 2 firsts for DJM then 1 first for Brogs.

DJM is better, younger, has more future trade value and is not injury prone.

And even if you trade for Brogs and keep Grimes you're essentially benching Duece and Grimes to get Brogs minutes so it wouldn't be a huge loss to trade Grimes for DJM

I doubt Grimes and two firsts get it done. Plus, with the Stepien rule, trading picks far gets tricky. Grimes and Deuce's minutes are gonna cut no matter who they trade for, so I'm not really concerned about it. I don't see DJM as good enough to lift us. Could Thibs coach him up. Maybe. Maybe not.

This team is good but much more vulnerable since the trade. Without OG but with RJ and Quickley we beat Orlando. We don’t have those failsafe scorers when Brunson is out. OG is the best in the league at what he does but doesn’t have another level when Brunson or Randle misses time. Knicks need to replace some of that offense they lost in the trade. We just don’t have role players capable of stepping out of their ideal roles.

Adding Murray esq player eliminates McBride's mins, and forces multiple players to reduce their mins, and forces us to play small on the bench.

Again we should be looking at the forward position for the bench. As the combination of Mcbride & an upgrade at forward is better than adding a G that eliminates Mcbride from the rotation. Target Deni.

Mcbride-Hart-Deni Bench2024

I think Brogdon is the best fit, but he definitely knocks Grimes out of the rotation so I would not hesitate to use Grimes in order to get him.

Brogdon is a very good 3 pt shooter and can play on or off ball. He also has been a 6th man so the role is not something we have to have concerns about him accepting. He is a high character/solid team chemistry guy and I think can fit on the roster and not disrupt the locker room.

I think it keeps a role open for Deuce to play alongside Brogdon.

We should get them to throw in Ibou Badji in whatever deal we try to strike. The dude who kept blocking Randle.

Burks also put up 34 last night and he's been hitting the 3 really well lately.

Im torn about what move this FO should do by the trade deadline. I really want this team to surpass last year's finish. This team might be two moves away from being true contenders. I cant be short sighted and i hope the FO should be as well. I hope they dont make a trade just to get them further that what last year's team accomplished but in doing so leaving this team short of assets to make that final move to get the right superstar to lead this team to the championship.

Will you be disappointed and furious if the FO will just make a small trade just enough to just have a chance to reach the second round? Knowing that they are leaving enough trade assets to land the coveted BIG FISH.

newyorknewyork wrote:Adding Murray esq player eliminates McBride's mins, and forces multiple players to reduce their mins, and forces us to play small on the bench.

Again we should be looking at the forward position for the bench. As the combination of Mcbride & an upgrade at forward is better than adding a G that eliminates Mcbride from the rotation. Target Deni.

Mcbride-Hart-Deni Bench2024

I think they extended Deni. He ain't going anytime soon.

VDesai wrote:I think Brogdon is the best fit, but he definitely knocks Grimes out of the rotation so I would not hesitate to use Grimes in order to get him.

Brogdon is a very good 3 pt shooter and can play on or off ball. He also has been a 6th man so the role is not something we have to have concerns about him accepting. He is a high character/solid team chemistry guy and I think can fit on the roster and not disrupt the locker room.

I think it keeps a role open for Deuce to play alongside Brogdon.

We should get them to throw in Ibou Badji in whatever deal we try to strike. The dude who kept blocking Randle.

Burks also put up 34 last night and he's been hitting the 3 really well lately.

He wasn't necessarily happy as a sixth-man according to reports. But whatever. He's paid so learned to deal with it.

IN the age of parity a little luck can take you far. Pierce and Perk are not wroing.
It would be nice if FO gave us some transparency but pro teams don't really do much of that.
Fans can come up with all kinds of trade scenarios to cure. We need scoring? Get a scorer for a few picks and plug and play.
We think a player stock value drops when not playing well. At the same time think it surges when it gets better. To some degree this is true but other teams have scouting and know whats up.
Plug and play is a very imperfect science. Look at Cam Reddish. It does not add up but one day it might. They you have Grayson Allen who as much as one wants to smack that "Ted Cruiz looking fuck face" he plays, he succeeded and does not cost alot. Same for DDV. Just without the fuck face of course!

My point? We a good team but there are a bunch out there. Media knows fans love trade talk and its all over the place. Every team, every market has this going on!

"Alec Burks hangs 32 pts, we should get him".......Not a bad idea. What cost? What salary gets moved? opportunity cost to burn a pick? What does Detroit want or need to solve its goals?

Knicks a good team, better than last. True. SO are other teams.

you guys get way too caught up in who "starts"... DDV starts sure, he also plays about half the game only. Even since the trade he's only play 24.9mpg.

DJM starting doesnt' mean he still can't be the de-facto 6th man and run with the 2nd unit for long stretches.

BigDaddyG wrote:

VDesai wrote:I think Brogdon is the best fit, but he definitely knocks Grimes out of the rotation so I would not hesitate to use Grimes in order to get him.

Brogdon is a very good 3 pt shooter and can play on or off ball. He also has been a 6th man so the role is not something we have to have concerns about him accepting. He is a high character/solid team chemistry guy and I think can fit on the roster and not disrupt the locker room.

I think it keeps a role open for Deuce to play alongside Brogdon.

We should get them to throw in Ibou Badji in whatever deal we try to strike. The dude who kept blocking Randle.

Burks also put up 34 last night and he's been hitting the 3 really well lately.

He wasn't necessarily happy as a sixth-man according to reports. But whatever. He's paid so learned to deal with it.

Now he's a 6th man for one of the worst teams in the league so I'm sure his perspective has changed.

Yesterday also presented a new problem in that Hartenstein got into foul trouble and had to be off the floor. He has actually been playing facilitator since the trade quite a bit, hanging at the top of the key/ high post. Achiuwa really gave us nothing other than a body out there. He has offensive talent that we've seen before, but he has been relatively lost in our offense. Yesterday, he was a disaster finishing at the rim. The anti-Anunoby with bad hands, no explosion/aggression on finishing.

Clean wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:This team is really good. People like Paul peirce and Perk even think this knicks team can make the eastern conference finals "with a little bit of luck". This team is working very well together, a well oiled machine. All the cogs and sprockets fit well together and thats where the problem starts. For the 1st time in dacades, the players on the team have a defined role to play to make the team run smoothly. But if one gear is missing(jalen's injury), this team starts to struggle. The emergence of IHart filled the loss of mitch perfectly but if something happens to him the knicks have nothing to patch that hole.

Deuce have filled in admirablely in place of Brunson but Jalen just does so much more for the team that its just too big a shoe for Deuce to fill.

The only good thing that i see from all of this is that the FO still has time to make a trade. 1st they have to know what they want this team to accomplish this year, too bad this FO doesnt really tell the fans of any of their approach.

This team still has needs but whats the best trade to make before the deadline that is best for the season and for the future?

I agree with most of what you said but not the bold. I don't need to know the approach or the road map from the FO. I just need them to eexecute what their plan is. I see this often on social media. Why would a FO give up their plans? Just make sure they make the right decisions and let me judge them after the fact.

I'll follow up to this.

What are fans expecting to hear? I don't get that.

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Adding Murray esq player eliminates McBride's mins, and forces multiple players to reduce their mins, and forces us to play small on the bench.

Again we should be looking at the forward position for the bench. As the combination of Mcbride & an upgrade at forward is better than adding a G that eliminates Mcbride from the rotation. Target Deni.

Mcbride-Hart-Deni Bench2024

I think they extended Deni. He ain't going anytime soon.

They did, relatively cheap as well. But they are also 7-32, and lotto pick Coulibaly is their SF of the future.

Knicks are def a better team but our gaps are bigger now. As long as Brunson + Randle plays it looks like we're elite but if one of those guys takes a night off; we no longer have RJ and most importantly IQ to fill in that gap
Knicks really need to get another primary ball handler.

We lost playmaking X2 . That's what we need to replenish. If Hartenstein can get more involved in the offense with the second unit it could possibly work just from within. Grimes can still shoot it, just needs passes. With our offense no longer able to rely purely on ISO, something must be done. Either get another ISO player or one who can distribute the ball and create plays. Ideally 2in1. Meanwhile we need to run more set plays with the second unit.

Wonder if Jaden Ivey is available to fill the IQ role -- we apparently loved him during the draft and his minutes/performance for Pistons have been sporadic at best.

Would at least give us a jolt athletically and maybe more but no idea if Pistons would move him.