HowieKomives wrote:VDesai wrote:DeBusschere trade is always interesting to look at as Bellamy was also a hall of famers. Not many hall of fame for hall of fame deals out there, but Dave D. clearly made a huge difference for NY winning titles and of course is considered a Knick legend.Back when I was a kid first starting to watch the Knicks in the early 90s, the NY Times had a funny ad as they were trying to establish/sell their sports section where an old timer was drilling a Nerdy young journalist about his sports knowledge. Of course the last question he asked was "Who did the Knicks trade for Dave DeBusschere," and he answers quickly "Walt Bellamy and Howie Komives." That ad and piece of trivia always stuck in my mind.
Bellamy was big (especially for his day), could take up space underneath and could score but was way too slow for today's game imo. I never checked this before but I notice his big years in the NBA were his first five with a big drop off after the 1965-66 season. Though a Hall of Famer, it would be laughable to compare him to his contemporaries Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and John Havlicek, never mind Wilt. Debusschere, also roughly a contemporary of Robertson, West and Havlicek, also was not quite on their skill level, though a Hall of Famer as well. But Debusschere, Robertson, West and Havlicek all had the speed, toughness and athleticism to excel in the new NBA game. Their production did not drop off after the mid 60s. Komives was nowhere near the athlete of any of those either, and I notice even his more modest production dropped way off after the 1966-67 season. The Knicks changed personnel in response to the changing game. The only significant "old fashioned" style player they got in the mid 60s was Bill Bradley, but he made up for his less than spectacular athleticism in many other ways.
Bellamy to knicks was also about him playing next to Reed. They did not click.
The wings I recall, Havlicek, Jack Marin and Bradley all were similar. Really good shooters and moved great without the ball. Havlicek was the best of the lot as he could pass really good. Then Came Rick Barry who killed it out west and raised the bar. His ABA days ate some prime but Rick was amazing. Elgin Baylor of course was the creme of that era at the wing. Recall we had Cazzie who might have been with him if not for the knee. Cazzie was the better player but Bradley the better fit once Debusschure came.
Nalod wrote:HowieKomives wrote:VDesai wrote:DeBusschere trade is always interesting to look at as Bellamy was also a hall of famers. Not many hall of fame for hall of fame deals out there, but Dave D. clearly made a huge difference for NY winning titles and of course is considered a Knick legend.Back when I was a kid first starting to watch the Knicks in the early 90s, the NY Times had a funny ad as they were trying to establish/sell their sports section where an old timer was drilling a Nerdy young journalist about his sports knowledge. Of course the last question he asked was "Who did the Knicks trade for Dave DeBusschere," and he answers quickly "Walt Bellamy and Howie Komives." That ad and piece of trivia always stuck in my mind.
Bellamy was big (especially for his day), could take up space underneath and could score but was way too slow for today's game imo. I never checked this before but I notice his big years in the NBA were his first five with a big drop off after the 1965-66 season. Though a Hall of Famer, it would be laughable to compare him to his contemporaries Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and John Havlicek, never mind Wilt. Debusschere, also roughly a contemporary of Robertson, West and Havlicek, also was not quite on their skill level, though a Hall of Famer as well. But Debusschere, Robertson, West and Havlicek all had the speed, toughness and athleticism to excel in the new NBA game. Their production did not drop off after the mid 60s. Komives was nowhere near the athlete of any of those either, and I notice even his more modest production dropped way off after the 1966-67 season. The Knicks changed personnel in response to the changing game. The only significant "old fashioned" style player they got in the mid 60s was Bill Bradley, but he made up for his less than spectacular athleticism in many other ways.
Bellamy to knicks was also about him playing next to Reed. They did not click.
The wings I recall, Havlicek, Jack Marin and Bradley all were similar. Really good shooters and moved great without the ball. Havlicek was the best of the lot as he could pass really good. Then Came Rick Barry who killed it out west and raised the bar. His ABA days ate some prime but Rick was amazing. Elgin Baylor of course was the creme of that era at the wing. Recall we had Cazzie who might have been with him if not for the knee. Cazzie was the better player but Bradley the better fit once Debusschure came.
Yes! Except even as a diehard Knicks fan, I must concede that Bradley was not on Havlicek's level, nor was Jack Marin. Rick Barry couldn't do it all but was spectacular at what he could do. I saw him in person and up close at the Garden almost single-handedly destroy a good Knicks team. And Elgin Baylor, of course, a true superstar. Willis Reed, before his injuries, was very quick and mobile and was able to play much bigger than 6'9". Getting rid of Bellamy was like cutting the ball and chain from the Knicks' ankle. They became the golden age Knicks almost right away. With Bill Russell and Wilt to contend with a championship seemed a tall order. But with Walt Frazier redefining the point guard position you suddenly had five highly mobile and multi-talented starters who could avoid being out muscled by Wilt with speed and smarts. They became the second success story of the new NBA game, after the Celtics.
