Knicks · Are the Knicks better off today w/players than before the trade with RJ and Quickly and Grimms ? (page 3)

They probably still tryna figure out how Curry, Randolph, QRich, Crawford, Marbury would only win 30 games a year. Even though they all double digit scorers.

Oh yea it was all Marbury fault.

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

Who is Grimms?

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

I respectfully disagree. JB plus DDV plus IQ would make a three headed monster of a PG/SG rotation. It would be worth the money. And cheaper than Spida

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

I respectfully disagree. JB plus DDV plus IQ would make a three headed monster of a PG/SG rotation. It would be worth the money. And cheaper than Spida

Ok, while what you said is true. . . Would you feel the same if it meant letting Hartenstein walk? Or Grimes? Or Mitch eventually? Or signing IQ to 25mil +? Not to mention that eventually both Brunson and Randle will absolutely rewire near max deal at the very least eventually

ramtour420 wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

I respectfully disagree. JB plus DDV plus IQ would make a three headed monster of a PG/SG rotation. It would be worth the money. And cheaper than Spida

Ok, while what you said is true. . . Would you feel the same if it meant letting Hartenstein walk? Or Grimes? Or Mitch eventually? Or signing IQ to 25mil +? Not to mention that eventually both Brunson and Randle will absolutely rewire near max deal at the very least eventually

Yea, we need to do everything we can to build the best team before Brunson and Randle are up for contracts. We will no longer have the cap to do anything once that happens.

newyorknewyork wrote:They probably still tryna figure out how Curry, Randolph, QRich, Crawford, Marbury would only win 30 games a year. Even though they all double digit scorers.

Oh yea it was all Marbury fault.

Trade Marbury!!!

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

2024-25
JR $30m
JB $25M
OG $25M
IQ $20m
MR $14m
jHart $18m
DDV $11.5m
iHart $12m
Achiuwa $7m
Deuce $5m
Sims $2m
That's your 11 man rotation at $169m
Plus 2 draft picks and 2 min contracts

Is IQ better than Brunson? Nope.
Is IQ better than DDV? Nope.
Will he be better than either in the future?
Brunson? Doubtful.
DDV? Different type of guard.
Future? Its not easy to predict. Leon and Co. might be wrong about IQ, but they were right about a of other things.

The notion of “Plug and play” is about putting statistically good players together does not always equate. The 23 win Isiah clusterphuch is a good example.. On paper, how does that happen? Also with a HOF Larry brown coach!!
Chemistry. 1+1=3.
MS will tell you OG will always be hurt. Just like Kurt was always hurt and Steph Curry bad ankles would derail his career? Of course not, players don’t always follow a defined past.

Now, the Month of January gave us a glimpse and hope that move out IQ and RJ and in OG might be special. Sometomes deletion contributes in strange ways. IQ might shine for another but that might not have happend here.
Brunson shined here far more than expected. Randle is an all NBA twice, 3x allstar who might have been having his best season. This after a lethargic start and we all get repulsed by his body language. Fans just lock in on things and stay there.
Prerogative. Silly as that might sound, its what we do. Silly spelling too. It’s correct BTW.

I mean I will say DDV has been better than IQ since the trade. Which isn't what I expected at all. So if we chose DDV over IQ it's looking pretty good right now, especially considering DDV will probably cost about half of what IQ will.

Donte DiVincenzo has averaged 18.2 points, 3.8 rebounds and 3.4 assists on 45/39 shooting in 30.5mpg

IQ since the trade 16.2/5.8/4 on 40/41 shooting in 32.1mpg.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think this team we have is slower weaker even with Rankle and OG in the game. What good is OG if he keeps getting hurt? RJ was a good play-off player and Quickly was the man. I think we should have kept them until the end of the play offs because they were home grown and were getting better. I don't know what kind of condition OG will be in when he gets back and will this be a Constance thing of him getting hurt I want to know your opinion.

Horrible timing for this question. Not sure about the Grimes trade. Not in love with it, but it kind of makes sense, this offseason may be elite wheeling and dealing the way they are set up.

That said, we are absolutely better after the OG trade.

It’s hard to see this team in full without a Center. And for all my Randle complaints it’s mostly because he isn’t realizing the potential I see in him - he’s good but could be next level great. Without him on the court, the Knicks are worse.

Brunson McBride
DDV. Hart
OG Burks
Randle/ Achiuwa / Bogs
Hart Robinson Sims

That’s about as deep of a 12 as you are gonna find in this league.

martin wrote:During the month of January, Knicks were tied for 3rd in wins, 9th in ORating, 3rd in DRating, 3rd in NetRating.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...

What the fuck are we complaining about today? That OG missed some games but was otherwise setting historical +/- rating for a single player on a new team. EVER.

Dude had the highest individual impact on the court ever while joining a new team, for like 4 weeks straight.

Open the flood gates of look back.

This is a trick question.

Amen.

Nalod wrote:When you kick phucking ass in January one does not feel bad.
When you lose 4 in a row after a really good surge you question things.
Fans prerogative.

Like 7 out of 9 rotation players missed games during that stretch. Grab your maxi-pads cause the time of the month type argument you just made is smelling funky.

We were better off for a month. Then the wheels fell off due to injuries. We were 17-14 at the time of the trade. Lost the game day of short handed and went 16-7 since. 4-5 without iHart/OG/Randle/Grimes and Brunson/DDV/Boj missed a game each. I don't think we could have done better with the old team fully healthy. Without injuries since the trade, we would talking about the 2 seed right now. I think we are better healthy. OG didn't cause the rest of the injuries that derailed the team.

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

2024-25
JR $30m
JB $25M
OG $25M
IQ $20m
MR $14m
jHart $18m
DDV $11.5m
iHart $12m
Achiuwa $7m
Deuce $5m
Sims $2m
That's your 11 man rotation at $169m
Plus 2 draft picks and 2 min contracts

My point was that it would not be smart to give someone $25M for 4 or 5 years if you do not expect him to start. Knicks will have similar decisions with IHart.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

2024-25
JR $30m
JB $25M
OG $25M
IQ $20m
MR $14m
jHart $18m
DDV $11.5m
iHart $12m
Achiuwa $7m
Deuce $5m
Sims $2m
That's your 11 man rotation at $169m
Plus 2 draft picks and 2 min contracts

My point was that it would not be smart to give someone $25M for 4 or 5 years if you do not expect him to start. Knicks will have similar decisions with IHart.

Well we'll see what he gets thos off-season.
Would I pay him $20m as a back up that plays 30+ min? Yes I would.

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

2024-25
JR $30m
JB $25M
OG $25M
IQ $20m
MR $14m
jHart $18m
DDV $11.5m
iHart $12m
Achiuwa $7m
Deuce $5m
Sims $2m
That's your 11 man rotation at $169m
Plus 2 draft picks and 2 min contracts

My point was that it would not be smart to give someone $25M for 4 or 5 years if you do not expect him to start. Knicks will have similar decisions with IHart.

Well we'll see what he gets thos off-season.
Would I pay him $20m as a back up that plays 30+ min? Yes I would.

Why? We are paying Donte 11M. Rather have him in IQs role off the bench.
Save the extra money for true difference maker
Which is why I said that you have more to consider than just saying IQ deserves $20M.
We all love the kid but we would love a Chip more.

Can we get RJ back?

Philc1 wrote:Can we get RJ back?

YOU can. Go follow the Raptors. WE are good.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:Time to ignore this thread people got on those rose tinted glasses again. The old team did not fit at all. We were going no where with RJ as a starter. We could not afford to keep Quick because he wants too much money. Yall need to watch that winning streak post OG trade again because these losses due to injuries are getting to you.

How many times I've heard IQ wanted to much money? How much did he want? I believe the rumor was $20m?
But Bojan is worth $19m and he only plays one side of the court and 10 years older?

Think IQ wants more than $20m? Also have to factor in multiple years. Years that would infringe on signing guys like IHart, JB and JR. FO felt it would hurt Cap flexibility. They did not feel it was worth paying a bench guy starter money.

Trust me, I wished we kept him. However, a the bigger picture was problem .

As for thread question. We are much better than before the trades
When healthy, this is a conference finals team. Prior to trade we were a second round exit.
Understand loving our home products. But you have to let it go when you can see the limitations.
Grimes and RJ were limited. IQ was as well but only because we have JB

2024-25
JR $30m
JB $25M
OG $25M
IQ $20m
MR $14m
jHart $18m
DDV $11.5m
iHart $12m
Achiuwa $7m
Deuce $5m
Sims $2m
That's your 11 man rotation at $169m
Plus 2 draft picks and 2 min contracts

My point was that it would not be smart to give someone $25M for 4 or 5 years if you do not expect him to start. Knicks will have similar decisions with IHart.

Well we'll see what he gets thos off-season.
Would I pay him $20m as a back up that plays 30+ min? Yes I would.

Why? We are paying Donte 11M. Rather have him in IQs role off the bench.
Save the extra money for true difference maker
Which is why I said that you have more to consider than just saying IQ deserves $20M.
We all love the kid but we would love a Chip more.

DDV is starting. Once again, I'm taking about having a 3 man rotation at PG/SG of JB, IQ AND DDV. Not DDV OR IQ.
Unless you think Burks fills that role, which I don't, you still have to get (and pay) someone.