Knicks · Knicks iHart watch and next moves? update: OKC offers $87M for 3 years (page 6)

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:For all we know they have agreed in principle but Leon got work to do.
For all we know iHart might be making plans for his free agency and what the money might look like.
For all WE know Leon and Co. might have other plans that could be a better fit then we know with another player.

I mean, we’ve been rolling with Mitch as our starting C for how many years?

If Mitch can stay on the damn court then yes.
If Mitch can hit a damn FT, then Yes.
But at the same time crunch time playoffs is this the guy we want on the floor if he can’t hit a FT?
We talking 4 series to win a chip.
He is family, Im not sure he is our dude. Not saying he can’t play a role.

Mitch ain't the guy - Knicks fans overrate him - he is bad at basketball.

Seems like a great guy - nice kid but the lack of development offensively and the injuries are harsh --- his offensive rebound rate looks great but shouldn't it given he literally has no other skill offensively and hangs around the rim all night. Even screening he is piss poor at.

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:For all we know they have agreed in principle but Leon got work to do.
For all we know iHart might be making plans for his free agency and what the money might look like.
For all WE know Leon and Co. might have other plans that could be a better fit then we know with another player.

I mean, we’ve been rolling with Mitch as our starting C for how many years?

If Mitch can stay on the damn court then yes.
If Mitch can hit a damn FT, then Yes.
But at the same time crunch time playoffs is this the guy we want on the floor if he can’t hit a FT?
We talking 4 series to win a chip.
He is family, Im not sure he is our dude. Not saying he can’t play a role.

Mitch ain't the guy - Knicks fans overrate him - he is bad at basketball.

Seems like a great guy - nice kid but the lack of development offensively and the injuries are harsh --- his offensive rebound rate looks great but shouldn't it given he literally has no other skill offensively and hangs around the rim all night. Even screening he is piss poor at.

On the other hand, his contract is descending and he can absolutely dominate a very good team in a 7 game series.

Thrash them in fact.

He is completely dominant for his contract expenditure? I think that’s an OK statement. Knicks have flexibility enough to not have to play him all the time.

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:For all we know they have agreed in principle but Leon got work to do.
For all we know iHart might be making plans for his free agency and what the money might look like.
For all WE know Leon and Co. might have other plans that could be a better fit then we know with another player.

I mean, we’ve been rolling with Mitch as our starting C for how many years?

If Mitch can stay on the damn court then yes.
If Mitch can hit a damn FT, then Yes.
But at the same time crunch time playoffs is this the guy we want on the floor if he can’t hit a FT?
We talking 4 series to win a chip.
He is family, Im not sure he is our dude. Not saying he can’t play a role.

Mitch ain't the guy - Knicks fans overrate him - he is bad at basketball.

Seems like a great guy - nice kid but the lack of development offensively and the injuries are harsh --- his offensive rebound rate looks great but shouldn't it given he literally has no other skill offensively and hangs around the rim all night. Even screening he is piss poor at.

With the new PG we got I think Mitch levels up a bit. We have never had anyone that will lob the ball to mitch so he been pretty much useless on offense. Now we do and he was the best passer in the NCAA for 3 years in a row.

Clean wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:For all we know they have agreed in principle but Leon got work to do.
For all we know iHart might be making plans for his free agency and what the money might look like.
For all WE know Leon and Co. might have other plans that could be a better fit then we know with another player.

I mean, we’ve been rolling with Mitch as our starting C for how many years?

If Mitch can stay on the damn court then yes.
If Mitch can hit a damn FT, then Yes.
But at the same time crunch time playoffs is this the guy we want on the floor if he can’t hit a FT?
We talking 4 series to win a chip.
He is family, Im not sure he is our dude. Not saying he can’t play a role.

Mitch ain't the guy - Knicks fans overrate him - he is bad at basketball.

Seems like a great guy - nice kid but the lack of development offensively and the injuries are harsh --- his offensive rebound rate looks great but shouldn't it given he literally has no other skill offensively and hangs around the rim all night. Even screening he is piss poor at.

With the new PG we got I think Mitch levels up a bit. We have never had anyone that will lob the ball to mitch so he been pretty much useless on offense. Now we do and he was the best passer in the NCAA for 3 years in a row.

I think it is fair to say that Mitch has not really played with a pass first PG who is especially good in the PnR and lob situation. A lot can change.

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:For all we know they have agreed in principle but Leon got work to do.
For all we know iHart might be making plans for his free agency and what the money might look like.
For all WE know Leon and Co. might have other plans that could be a better fit then we know with another player.

I mean, we’ve been rolling with Mitch as our starting C for how many years?

If Mitch can stay on the damn court then yes.
If Mitch can hit a damn FT, then Yes.
But at the same time crunch time playoffs is this the guy we want on the floor if he can’t hit a FT?
We talking 4 series to win a chip.
He is family, Im not sure he is our dude. Not saying he can’t play a role.

Mitch ain't the guy - Knicks fans overrate him - he is bad at basketball.

Seems like a great guy - nice kid but the lack of development offensively and the injuries are harsh --- his offensive rebound rate looks great but shouldn't it given he literally has no other skill offensively and hangs around the rim all night. Even screening he is piss poor at.

Wow, you literally have no understanding of how the Center position in basketball is played

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:For all we know they have agreed in principle but Leon got work to do.
For all we know iHart might be making plans for his free agency and what the money might look like.
For all WE know Leon and Co. might have other plans that could be a better fit then we know with another player.

I mean, we’ve been rolling with Mitch as our starting C for how many years?

If Mitch can stay on the damn court then yes.
If Mitch can hit a damn FT, then Yes.
But at the same time crunch time playoffs is this the guy we want on the floor if he can’t hit a FT?
We talking 4 series to win a chip.
He is family, Im not sure he is our dude. Not saying he can’t play a role.

Mitch ain't the guy - Knicks fans overrate him - he is bad at basketball.

Seems like a great guy - nice kid but the lack of development offensively and the injuries are harsh --- his offensive rebound rate looks great but shouldn't it given he literally has no other skill offensively and hangs around the rim all night. Even screening he is piss poor at.

With the new PG we got I think Mitch levels up a bit. We have never had anyone that will lob the ball to mitch so he been pretty much useless on offense. Now we do and he was the best passer in the NCAA for 3 years in a row.

I think it is fair to say that Mitch has not really played with a pass first PG who is especially good in the PnR and lob situation. A lot can change.

His rookie year, he was a lot more actively on offense. I agree with your analysis. Would love to see Kolek and Robinson working out a bit. My eyes may deceive me, but Robinson isn’t really moving with speed to the basket after setting his picks. Kind of meanders to his position to box out. He gets his spot, but there is no lob threat to worry about on the PnR. His only lob threat is when he is coming weakside baseline once his man doubles in the paint.

Kind of worry his conditioning won’t be there to start the season either after Embiid fucked with him.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:For all we know they have agreed in principle but Leon got work to do.
For all we know iHart might be making plans for his free agency and what the money might look like.
For all WE know Leon and Co. might have other plans that could be a better fit then we know with another player.

I mean, we’ve been rolling with Mitch as our starting C for how many years?

If Mitch can stay on the damn court then yes.
If Mitch can hit a damn FT, then Yes.
But at the same time crunch time playoffs is this the guy we want on the floor if he can’t hit a FT?
We talking 4 series to win a chip.
He is family, Im not sure he is our dude. Not saying he can’t play a role.

Mitch ain't the guy - Knicks fans overrate him - he is bad at basketball.

Seems like a great guy - nice kid but the lack of development offensively and the injuries are harsh --- his offensive rebound rate looks great but shouldn't it given he literally has no other skill offensively and hangs around the rim all night. Even screening he is piss poor at.

With the new PG we got I think Mitch levels up a bit. We have never had anyone that will lob the ball to mitch so he been pretty much useless on offense. Now we do and he was the best passer in the NCAA for 3 years in a row.

I think it is fair to say that Mitch has not really played with a pass first PG who is especially good in the PnR and lob situation. A lot can change.

His rookie year, he was a lot more actively on offense. I agree with your analysis. Would love to see Kolek and Robinson working out a bit. My eyes may deceive me, but Robinson isn’t really moving with speed to the basket after setting his picks. Kind of meanders to his position to box out. He gets his spot, but there is no lob threat to worry about on the PnR. His only lob threat is when he is coming weakside baseline once his man doubles in the paint.

Kind of worry his conditioning won’t be there to start the season either after Embiid fucked with him.

Mitch used to not know how to box out or not bite on ball fakes. He literally has no idea what to do after setting a pick. And we all can see a world of difference in how iHart uses space, Mitch has zero clue.

But the dude does set a very nice pick and is open on his rolls for a dunk like 50% of the time and the Knicks are really underwhelming connecting with him.

Send Mitch to the Gleague to work with Kolec and get his legs back!

My eye test says that Robinson was able to slow down Embiid just enough for us to get the series win while IHart was fish bait going up against him. Regular season IHart is the better player but when it comes to the playoffs, I think Robinson is more valuable.

gradyandrew wrote:My eye test says that Robinson was able to slow down Embiid just enough for us to get the series win while IHart was fish bait going up against him. Regular season IHart is the better player but when it comes to the playoffs, I think Robinson is more valuable.

I actually agree. Hart was getting abused by Joel. Mitch was also a big reason why we destroyed the Cavs. Bam locked up Mitch in the second round though.

I am going to hang my ass out there and be under the impression that OKC is very much in the iHart hunt (and any other juicy player obviously), regardless of his fit with Chet.

BECAUSE... they are probably also in the hunt for Durant on the sly and need viable contract assets to exchange down the line. Same deal with NY and needing the Fournier/Bogey contracts to get something better.

I'd guess that OKC is doing double planning: How can we use all this gorgeous cap space and smartly build this up cause we are really good NOW and win a championship. But also, we see you Kevin Durant and all our picks kinda sort makes sense and we gotta sign guys that make sense to exchange for KD cause that just looks like a steaming pile of disaster over there and you never know.

Story book endings can't be written better. This will be the Suns only way to replenish their very quickly dwindling asset window IF they look like they will bomb. We will know by Feb.

Also Kevin Durant trade material. Or just a good addition for OKC

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martin wrote:Also Kevin Durant trade material. Or just a good addition for OKC

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He and Homgren would look like bowling pins for Brunson to knock over.

These are the teams that can compete for iHart.

76ers, Detroit, Utah, Hornets all seem like absolute no-go's?

I don't see Spurs using cap space on a guy that'll contribute to too much winning, I think they are tanking for 1 more year.

OKC, Orlando.

Orlando has Suggs, Banchero, Franz, Black. iHart would go there for the $ cause that team is not nearly good enough.

OKC will offer $ and a weird fit but a winning team.

https://www.twitter.com/YossiGozlan/stat...

martin wrote:These are the teams that can compete for iHart.

76ers, Detroit, Utah, Hornets all seem like absolute no-go's?

I don't see Spurs using cap space on a guy that'll contribute to too much winning, I think they are tanking for 1 more year.

OKC, Orlando.

Orlando has Suggs, Banchero, Franz, Black. iHart would go there for the $ cause that team is not nearly good enough.

OKC will offer $ and a weird fit but a winning team.

https://www.twitter.com/YossiGozlan/stat...

My sense is that this board is possibly over-pricing iHart. Love him and want him here. I enjoy the chemistry. But he is entirely replaceable at price. I cannot think of a reason why Drummond plays for the vet minimum while iHart is seeking 16m. I would reward him for being here, but there is reasonableness in keeping him in the 10-12m range and maxing at 14m. Could he become Jokic? Probably not. Awesome teammate and I love him. I am more hoping to S&T at 16mm to another squad to pick up the TPE than to actually keep him at 16m. OG took that money already. Hell, at this point if we can S&T Hartenstein and trade Robinson for
Assets, I am happy to pick up Drummond and Bitadze RJ fill that floor space. Use the spare money on other vets like Batum. You can fill 90% of that slots’ production at 30% of the cost. Unfortunate, but true.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:These are the teams that can compete for iHart.

76ers, Detroit, Utah, Hornets all seem like absolute no-go's?

I don't see Spurs using cap space on a guy that'll contribute to too much winning, I think they are tanking for 1 more year.

OKC, Orlando.

Orlando has Suggs, Banchero, Franz, Black. iHart would go there for the $ cause that team is not nearly good enough.

OKC will offer $ and a weird fit but a winning team.

https://www.twitter.com/YossiGozlan/stat...

My sense is that this board is possibly over-pricing iHart. Love him and want him here. I enjoy the chemistry. But he is entirely replaceable at price. I cannot think of a reason why Drummond plays for the vet minimum while iHart is seeking 16m. I would reward him for being here, but there is reasonableness in keeping him in the 10-12m range and maxing at 14m. Could he become Jokic? Probably not. Awesome teammate and I love him. I am more hoping to S&T at 16mm to another squad to pick up the TPE than to actually keep him at 16m. OG took that money already. Hell, at this point if we can S&T Hartenstein and trade Robinson for
Assets, I am happy to pick up Drummond and Bitadze RJ fill that floor space. Use the spare money on other vets like Batum. You can fill 90% of that slots’ production at 30% of the cost. Unfortunate, but true.

I agree with you. We’ve been attached to IHart but there is a price point where the team is better served looking elsewhere.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:These are the teams that can compete for iHart.

76ers, Detroit, Utah, Hornets all seem like absolute no-go's?

I don't see Spurs using cap space on a guy that'll contribute to too much winning, I think they are tanking for 1 more year.

OKC, Orlando.

Orlando has Suggs, Banchero, Franz, Black. iHart would go there for the $ cause that team is not nearly good enough.

OKC will offer $ and a weird fit but a winning team.

https://www.twitter.com/YossiGozlan/stat...

My sense is that this board is possibly over-pricing iHart. Love him and want him here. I enjoy the chemistry. But he is entirely replaceable at price. I cannot think of a reason why Drummond plays for the vet minimum while iHart is seeking 16m. I would reward him for being here, but there is reasonableness in keeping him in the 10-12m range and maxing at 14m. Could he become Jokic? Probably not. Awesome teammate and I love him. I am more hoping to S&T at 16mm to another squad to pick up the TPE than to actually keep him at 16m. OG took that money already. Hell, at this point if we can S&T Hartenstein and trade Robinson for
Assets, I am happy to pick up Drummond and Bitadze RJ fill that floor space. Use the spare money on other vets like Batum. You can fill 90% of that slots’ production at 30% of the cost. Unfortunate, but true.

His play in the Pacer series has me here as well.

martin wrote:These are the teams that can compete for iHart.

76ers, Detroit, Utah, Hornets all seem like absolute no-go's?

I don't see Spurs using cap space on a guy that'll contribute to too much winning, I think they are tanking for 1 more year.

OKC, Orlando.

Orlando has Suggs, Banchero, Franz, Black. iHart would go there for the $ cause that team is not nearly good enough.

OKC will offer $ and a weird fit but a winning team.

https://www.twitter.com/YossiGozlan/stat...

This is the problem. I know it only takes one, but someone in the media needs to tell us the team that offers Hartenstein this massive assumed deal. I know OKC was mentioned but they traded for Caruso and it sort of eliminated the possibility of them signing Hartenstein to be a starter. Do they sign him for 100M to be a backup big? Does Hartenstein leave NY and a starting spot for a backup role in Oklahoma City ? I guess Orlando looms

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:Also Kevin Durant trade material. Or just a good addition for OKC

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He and Homgren would look like bowling pins for Brunson to knock over.

The fact that we where able to outmaneuver Ainge for Bridges makes the trade even sweeter.

KnickDanger wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:These are the teams that can compete for iHart.

76ers, Detroit, Utah, Hornets all seem like absolute no-go's?

I don't see Spurs using cap space on a guy that'll contribute to too much winning, I think they are tanking for 1 more year.

OKC, Orlando.

Orlando has Suggs, Banchero, Franz, Black. iHart would go there for the $ cause that team is not nearly good enough.

OKC will offer $ and a weird fit but a winning team.

https://www.twitter.com/YossiGozlan/stat...

My sense is that this board is possibly over-pricing iHart. Love him and want him here. I enjoy the chemistry. But he is entirely replaceable at price. I cannot think of a reason why Drummond plays for the vet minimum while iHart is seeking 16m. I would reward him for being here, but there is reasonableness in keeping him in the 10-12m range and maxing at 14m. Could he become Jokic? Probably not. Awesome teammate and I love him. I am more hoping to S&T at 16mm to another squad to pick up the TPE than to actually keep him at 16m. OG took that money already. Hell, at this point if we can S&T Hartenstein and trade Robinson for
Assets, I am happy to pick up Drummond and Bitadze RJ fill that floor space. Use the spare money on other vets like Batum. You can fill 90% of that slots’ production at 30% of the cost. Unfortunate, but true.

I agree with you. We’ve been attached to IHart but there is a price point where the team is better served looking elsewhere.

Please help me understand the players you think can replace iHart at the $5m mark the Knicks can use? I am interested.

That player needs to come close to help facilitate making the other players on team better on the offensive side of things while being good defensively. Who are they?

Drummond has shown repeatedly that he is a nothing burger on multiple teams. Ziltch. In fact, Drummond is so poor I can’t even recall the last team he has had an impact on.

martin wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:These are the teams that can compete for iHart.

76ers, Detroit, Utah, Hornets all seem like absolute no-go's?

I don't see Spurs using cap space on a guy that'll contribute to too much winning, I think they are tanking for 1 more year.

OKC, Orlando.

Orlando has Suggs, Banchero, Franz, Black. iHart would go there for the $ cause that team is not nearly good enough.

OKC will offer $ and a weird fit but a winning team.

https://www.twitter.com/YossiGozlan/stat...

My sense is that this board is possibly over-pricing iHart. Love him and want him here. I enjoy the chemistry. But he is entirely replaceable at price. I cannot think of a reason why Drummond plays for the vet minimum while iHart is seeking 16m. I would reward him for being here, but there is reasonableness in keeping him in the 10-12m range and maxing at 14m. Could he become Jokic? Probably not. Awesome teammate and I love him. I am more hoping to S&T at 16mm to another squad to pick up the TPE than to actually keep him at 16m. OG took that money already. Hell, at this point if we can S&T Hartenstein and trade Robinson for
Assets, I am happy to pick up Drummond and Bitadze RJ fill that floor space. Use the spare money on other vets like Batum. You can fill 90% of that slots’ production at 30% of the cost. Unfortunate, but true.

I agree with you. We’ve been attached to IHart but there is a price point where the team is better served looking elsewhere.

Please help me understand the players you think can replace iHart at the $5m mark the Knicks can use? I am interested.

That player needs to come close to help facilitate making the other players on team better on the offensive side of things while being good defensively. Who are they?

Drummond has shown repeatedly that he is a nothing burger on multiple teams. Ziltch. In fact, Drummond is so poor I can’t even recall the last team he has had an impact on.

We aren’t replacing Hartenstein if we lose him. Best bet is we replace him with Mitch as starter and hope he stays a little healthier and can give us the elite rebounding and rim protection. Goga Bitadze at the taxpayers MLE gives us a little of hartensteins skillset, as does Plumlee. It’s a Stretch though. Even if we lose Hartenstein we still got better this summer, but it’s not perfect.

Even if mitch stays healthy we were not replacing iHart. After everyone got used to him starting iHart became important to how we beat people overplaying Brunson to get the ball out of his hand. Like it or not when Randle got injured iHart was our second best playmaker. While I personally would not rely on him as a primary ballhandler he is a good secondary ballhandler.