Clean wrote:Yea bird rights and qualifying offers are two different things. By not extending a qualifying offer we just made him an unrestricted FA. We can still sign him to whatever we want since we have his full bird rights.
We have his bird right but are also constrained by whichever apron we hit on the Mikal trade? Is that right? I'm not sure
SupremeCommander wrote:martin wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:martin wrote:Honest question: Would any of you taken the $74M for 4 over the $87m for 3?I would have stayed in NY 100 out of 100 times.
Me, 100 percent, and I guarantee anyone reading this they would do the same in his position. He can set up generational wealth per freaking quickly. He gets to be a key cog on the best regular season team in the league and a team that's on the rise. I think once everyone puts down the koolaid they would say the same thing. If not then, maybe everyone would stop deluding themselves after they went home and talked to their wife
Everyone has a different definition of generational wealth.
Is there an official number?
oh come on. When have you ever been like "sure, I will work for 50 percent less". come on
everyone's definition is different, so he should subscribe to your worldview and take a 50 percent haircut 🙄
Except that IHart's contract with OKC is front loaded but only guarantees $59.5M over 3 years. So the question is, would you rather get a guaranteed $72M in NYK with a likely starting spot rotating with an oft injured player as well as fan adoration and a system that highlighted your skills....or......a balloon payment and guaranteed $59.5M over 3 years behind a #2 overall pick in a new system and fanbase.
The 3rd year is non-guaranteed and it essentially guarantees 59.5mm in 2yrs as opposed to 72 over 4. The 59.5 over the first 2 yrs is a little less than double the 33mm or so he'd have made in the first 2 yrs of his deal here.
If you could make 3.5 yrs worth of salary in 2 yrs worth of work and sit home on your butt for an extra 1.5 yrs in retirement you'd do that every day of the week.
OK, so what is the fall back plan then?
https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...
Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”
martin wrote:OK, so what is the fall back plan then?https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...
Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”
I think they have a trade in play with one of these TPEs and some of the extra 2nds they acquired in the draft. These are the guys that fit the trade bucket:
Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:OK, so what is the fall back plan then?https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...
Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”
I think they have a trade in play with one of these TPEs and some of the extra 2nds they acquired in the draft. These are the guys that fit the trade bucket:
Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath
My question: Guy like Kessler seems like a really nice fit, right? Those seconds won't be enough or would they?
The unfortunate follow up question: Deuce in exchange for Kessler makes sense for both teams in the realm of even asset exchange?
Knicks are in contention. When you are in contention you do not fool around with a very important position in your system. I would guess they are targeting someone in exchange for Deuce as the value. It feels right and they need to make the Mikal trade part of like Utah, etc. with perhaps DFS and others moving.
Isiah Jackson could also be a target with the relationship with Pacers.
Cross these guys off list?
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:OK, so what is the fall back plan then?https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...
Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”
I think they have a trade in play with one of these TPEs and some of the extra 2nds they acquired in the draft. These are the guys that fit the trade bucket:
Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath
My question: Guy like Kessler seems like a really nice fit, right? Those seconds won't be enough or would they?
The unfortunate follow up question: Deuce in exchange for Kessler makes sense for both teams in the realm of even asset exchange?
Knicks are in contention. When you are in contention you do not fool around with a very important position in your system. I would guess they are targeting someone in exchange for Deuce as the value. It feels right and they need to make the Mikal trade part of like Utah, etc. with perhaps DFS and others moving.
Isiah Jackson could also be a target with the relationship with Pacers.
Yeah I think draft capital alone (2nd rounders/pick swaps) may not get it done for Kessler. That said Utah is in a weird spot as they have Eubanks and Filipowski behind Kessler and John Collins was starting at C for them ahead of Kessler. Maybe McBride would be a piece for them - with Sexton, George, Clarkson etc. maybe not an easy fit, but I guess let's see how it plays out. That said why sign Eubanks and draft Filipowski if they aren't thinking of dealing Kessler.
Its probably impossible for us to know what we're working with till the Bridges deal is finalized.
VDesai wrote:The 3rd year is non-guaranteed and it essentially guarantees 59.5mm in 2yrs as opposed to 72 over 4. The 59.5 over the first 2 yrs is a little less than double the 33mm or so he'd have made in the first 2 yrs of his deal here. If you could make 3.5 yrs worth of salary in 2 yrs worth of work and sit home on your butt for an extra 1.5 yrs in retirement you'd do that every day of the week.
Sure, makes sense if you're middle aged and worried mostly about retirement finances. However if you're a 20 something professional athlete you're likely thinking more about your chances at winning, coaching staff, playing time, impact, fit on the roster, teammates, legacy and next contract. Put another way. IHart blossomed under a coach, team and scheme from an unknown to getting $30M offers a year as a FA. Will that continue to be the case in OKC?
VDesai wrote:In terms of non-Achiuwa FA and trade options I think here are our options:Partial MLE to Full MLE / Young Guys Who Have Some Upside:
James Wiseman
Thomas Bryant
Omer Yursteven
Harry Giles
Min Salary Veterans who can set a pick and board and not make mistakes:
Daniel Theis
Cody Zeller
Xavier Tillman
Min Salary Veterans who can block shots and run around but we didn't sign last year when free in lieu of Taj Gibson:
Bismack Biyombo
Chimeze Metu
Javale McGee
Guys who we probably can't afford, but offer something different offensively:
Mo Wagner
Dario Saric
Guys who are on smaller scale deals that are possibly on the trade market that we can acquire with a TPE/Picks:
Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath
On last year of contract Capella might be a trade chip for ATL. If not, at 30years old he at some point becomes a buy out candidate. Most likely clears waivers and perhaps us to sign for the playoff push? I'd assume ATL is rebuilding still.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:OK, so what is the fall back plan then?https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...
Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”
I think they have a trade in play with one of these TPEs and some of the extra 2nds they acquired in the draft. These are the guys that fit the trade bucket:
Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath
My question: Guy like Kessler seems like a really nice fit, right? Those seconds won't be enough or would they?
The unfortunate follow up question: Deuce in exchange for Kessler makes sense for both teams in the realm of even asset exchange?
Knicks are in contention. When you are in contention you do not fool around with a very important position in your system. I would guess they are targeting someone in exchange for Deuce as the value. It feels right and they need to make the Mikal trade part of like Utah, etc. with perhaps DFS and others moving.
Isiah Jackson could also be a target with the relationship with Pacers.
Yeah I think draft capital alone (2nd rounders/pick swaps) may not get it done for Kessler. That said Utah is in a weird spot as they have Eubanks and Filipowski behind Kessler and John Collins was starting at C for them ahead of Kessler. Maybe McBride would be a piece for them - with Sexton, George, Clarkson etc. maybe not an easy fit, but I guess let's see how it plays out. That said why sign Eubanks and draft Filipowski if they aren't thinking of dealing Kessler.
Its probably impossible for us to know what we're working with till the Bridges deal is finalized.
Knicks have some TPE's and the Detroit and Wash picks. From a Danny Ainge perspective, those might be worth something in terms of flipping the Kessler assets down the line and fit in playing time for the other tall white dudes.
foosballnick wrote:VDesai wrote:The 3rd year is non-guaranteed and it essentially guarantees 59.5mm in 2yrs as opposed to 72 over 4. The 59.5 over the first 2 yrs is a little less than double the 33mm or so he'd have made in the first 2 yrs of his deal here. If you could make 3.5 yrs worth of salary in 2 yrs worth of work and sit home on your butt for an extra 1.5 yrs in retirement you'd do that every day of the week.
Sure, makes sense if you're middle aged and worried mostly about retirement finances. However if you're a 20 something professional athlete you're likely thinking more about your chances at winning, coaching staff, playing time, impact, fit on the roster, teammates, legacy and next contract. Put another way. IHart blossomed under a coach, team and scheme from an unknown to getting $30M offers a year as a FA. Will that continue to be the case in OKC?
Why not? OKC has been a great place for young players to play and is a no.1 seed in the West. Its a vastly inferior City, but its a good basketball situation and almost twice as much money. He made the rational decision. And at 28-29 entering his prime he might be free again and eligible for an even larger raise.
Nalod wrote:
On last year of contract Capella might be a trade chip for ATL. If not, at 30years old he at some point becomes a buy out candidate. Most likely clears waivers and perhaps us to sign for the playoff push? I'd assume ATL is rebuilding still.
I thought that by being above the first apron, the Knicks are no longer able to sign people clearing waivers if they are making more than the MLE, like Capela is.
Im not here to defend OKC, but the city has one pro team that gets all the attention so its not a bad sports city for the Thunder.
The Arena is getting renovated.
The Roster is young and dynamic. He seems to get along with his clipper mates, NY knicks, and he'll get on well I assume with THunder.
They are up and coming and ahead of schedule.
I doubt he'll shoot much from afar when Chet is on the floor.
Its an inferior city? In a lot of ways no city is a match for NYC. For a young guy with a baby, the club scene is not that attractive.
Also, these guys practice on non game days and have to tend to injuries. Its why many live in westchester/White plains. They there more than mSG Then there is the travel. Half the games are away. Travel time matters, time away matters.
I love NYC. I also love not living there. Why? I love where I live and the people around me. So its all good.
As for Branding, we are reminded Durant became an international brand in OKC. I think he did more then then he does now. The local money?
You guys tell me, are local players doing much endorsements? Banks? Car dealerships? Restaurants? Was iHart doing much before? I know Josh and Jalen are doing podcasts which can be lucrative. JJ Reddick was pulling in like 5mil a year! That took a while to happen. Does mitch do ads?
martin wrote:Cross these guys off list?
Sharpe is still a very young player with good potential.I wouldn't give up on him yet. Especially when you consider the alternatives.
With Wiseman going to Indiana, Isiah Jackson feels like a potential target. From what I understand he is a Sam Rose client and he's a Kentucky alum. We gave the Pacers a nice deal last year with Toppin, maybe they return the favor here. IF we could get it done with a TPE and a couple 2nd rounders, its a no-brainer. I thought he was really good against us the in the playoffs. His energy, shotblocking and finishing ability in the paint were impressive.
VDesai wrote:With Wiseman going to Indiana, Isiah Jackson feels like a potential target. From what I understand he is a Sam Rose client and he's a Kentucky alum. We gave the Pacers a nice deal last year with Toppin, maybe they return the favor here. IF we could get it done with a TPE and a couple 2nd rounders, its a no-brainer. I thought he was really good against us the in the playoffs. His energy, shotblocking and finishing ability in the paint were impressive.
Give them the crappy ass seconds they gave us and call it a day!
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:OK, so what is the fall back plan then?https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...
Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”
I think they have a trade in play with one of these TPEs and some of the extra 2nds they acquired in the draft. These are the guys that fit the trade bucket:
Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath
My question: Guy like Kessler seems like a really nice fit, right? Those seconds won't be enough or would they?
The unfortunate follow up question: Deuce in exchange for Kessler makes sense for both teams in the realm of even asset exchange?
Knicks are in contention. When you are in contention you do not fool around with a very important position in your system. I would guess they are targeting someone in exchange for Deuce as the value. It feels right and they need to make the Mikal trade part of like Utah, etc. with perhaps DFS and others moving.
Isiah Jackson could also be a target with the relationship with Pacers.
Yeah I think draft capital alone (2nd rounders/pick swaps) may not get it done for Kessler. That said Utah is in a weird spot as they have Eubanks and Filipowski behind Kessler and John Collins was starting at C for them ahead of Kessler. Maybe McBride would be a piece for them - with Sexton, George, Clarkson etc. maybe not an easy fit, but I guess let's see how it plays out. That said why sign Eubanks and draft Filipowski if they aren't thinking of dealing Kessler.
Its probably impossible for us to know what we're working with till the Bridges deal is finalized.
Knicks have some TPE's and the Detroit and Wash picks. From a Danny Ainge perspective, those might be worth something in terms of flipping the Kessler assets down the line and fit in playing time for the other tall white dudes.
Kessler makes a ton of sense. We are tryna win a chip and they are probably going to tank for Cooper Flagg once they trade Lauri.
Honestly rights to Dadiet makes sense for both teams. Will probably have to add sweetener of a 2nd or 2.
Collier, George, Williams, Dadiet, Senabaugh, Hendricks, Filipkowski over the last 2 drafts.
VDesai wrote:The 3rd year is non-guaranteed and it essentially guarantees 59.5mm in 2yrs as opposed to 72 over 4. The 59.5 over the first 2 yrs is a little less than double the 33mm or so he'd have made in the first 2 yrs of his deal here. If you could make 3.5 yrs worth of salary in 2 yrs worth of work and sit home on your butt for an extra 1.5 yrs in retirement you'd do that every day of the week.
not sure i agree. the marginal utility of that extra money isn't the same when you're already talking 18mill/year isn't the same compared to someone making 50k vs 100k.
there are more important things than money. I wish no ill-will but i suspect as he's counting his money he might wonder whether it was worth it. He had a very good thing going here.
Chandler wrote:VDesai wrote:The 3rd year is non-guaranteed and it essentially guarantees 59.5mm in 2yrs as opposed to 72 over 4. The 59.5 over the first 2 yrs is a little less than double the 33mm or so he'd have made in the first 2 yrs of his deal here. If you could make 3.5 yrs worth of salary in 2 yrs worth of work and sit home on your butt for an extra 1.5 yrs in retirement you'd do that every day of the week.
not sure i agree. the marginal utility of that extra money isn't the same when you're already talking 18mill/year isn't the same compared to someone making 50k vs 100k.
there are more important things than money. I wish no ill-will but i suspect as he's counting his money he might wonder whether it was worth it. He had a very good thing going here.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. Even though iHart is dead to me, I still wish him well. But an Achilles or MCL tear and he might wish he had that extra security of 4 years. It's a gamble. That said, I'd probably take the upfront money. I think he's good for a MLE at the very least if OKC opts out. And given the surge in AAVs, I think they keep him anyway as salary in a potential trade.
