Knicks · Mitch Bomb from Begley (page 7)
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:you put this in the KAT thread? This team has Warriors offense vibes. Josh is our Draymond and even Josh gets 40% from the corner for his career.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/benritholtznba/status/1840832481009762705?s=61&t=X2NvaBkjFz8kZPoGlCbCzA
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Click here to view the TweetIDK why we would trade Mitch tho
The weird part: the Knicks FO wanted to move Mitch/Randle to Minny, not DDV.
I don’t what to make of that.
Cause the numbers work without unfucking the Partizan signing of Daquan Jeffries.
No I meant from a roster construction standpoint.
Knicks would rather move their only C after KAT before a guard where they had tons of overlap.
That’s odd?
My take is that it is just math. Randle + Robinson + Achiuwa fits is $50k over KAT's contract. Achiuwa's contract seems carefully constructed to make the math work on December 15.
The pre-training camp trade barely works if they get the Charlotte sign and trades to align. They still don't have the numbers down and may need to trade Mitch anyway to get the numbers to work. That explains the fingers crossed in Mitch's feeds.
Makes sense.
NOP has a fuckton of TPE’s, something to watch. Maybe NOP wants Nick Richard’s and they get looped in.
I would not be surprised if Mitch, Deuce go out and a wing and someone makes it to Knicks.
martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:you put this in the KAT thread? This team has Warriors offense vibes. Josh is our Draymond and even Josh gets 40% from the corner for his career.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/benritholtznba/status/1840832481009762705?s=61&t=X2NvaBkjFz8kZPoGlCbCzA
Click here to view the TweetJavascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/krispursiainen/status/1840782714938532087?s=61&t=X2NvaBkjFz8kZPoGlCbCzA
Click here to view the TweetIDK why we would trade Mitch tho
The weird part: the Knicks FO wanted to move Mitch/Randle to Minny, not DDV.
I don’t what to make of that.
Cause the numbers work without unfucking the Partizan signing of Daquan Jeffries.
No I meant from a roster construction standpoint.
Knicks would rather move their only C after KAT before a guard where they had tons of overlap.
That’s odd?
My take is that it is just math. Randle + Robinson + Achiuwa fits is $50k over KAT's contract. Achiuwa's contract seems carefully constructed to make the math work on December 15.
The pre-training camp trade barely works if they get the Charlotte sign and trades to align. They still don't have the numbers down and may need to trade Mitch anyway to get the numbers to work. That explains the fingers crossed in Mitch's feeds.
Makes sense.
NOP has a fuckton of TPE’s, something to watch. Maybe NOP wants Nick Richard’s and they get looped in.
I would not be surprised if Mitch, Deuce go out and a wing and someone makes it to Knicks.
I mean, to get close to the Robinson contract, they only have like 5 outgoing salaries that are tradeable. Jones $12.9m, Murphy $5m, Hawkings $4.7m, Missi $3m and Robinson-Earl $2m
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Leon [Rose] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us. e] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”
But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us.
GustavBahler wrote:https://www.nj.com/knicks/2024/09/knicks...
Leon [Rose] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us. e] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”
But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us.
haha league sources who many want to trade FOR Mitch say his market is pretty depressed. He is injured, so yeah, his market is down just like most every other player in the same situation.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://www.nj.com/knicks/2024/09/knicks...
Leon [Rose] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us. e] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”
But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us.
haha league sources who many want to trade FOR Mitch say his market is pretty depressed. He is injured, so yeah, his market is down just like most every other player in the same situation.
Agree, but the 18 months surprised me.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://www.nj.com/knicks/2024/09/knicks...
Leon [Rose] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us. e] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”
But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us.
haha league sources who many want to trade FOR Mitch say his market is pretty depressed. He is injured, so yeah, his market is down just like most every other player in the same situation.
Agree, but the 18 months surprised me.
Not me, with the way iHart was playing. They didn't see iHart getting paid what he did. But I'm sure there was sense that they would have to pay up. Paying $30M, at the time, for a center tandem was probably a no-go.
BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://www.nj.com/knicks/2024/09/knicks...
Leon [Rose] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us. e] and his staff are in constant discussions with all the teams in the league about who might be available, who might not be available,” Thibodeau said, speaking generally. “We’re also taking calls. And then when the team wins the value of everyone goes up.”
But one league source said Robinson had actually been on the market “for the last 18 months.”
Another league source said “His market is pretty depressed right now.”
Asked if Robinson would start when he does come back, Thibodeau said: “The first thing is to get him back and then we’ll see where he is. I like the versatility of what he gives us.
haha league sources who many want to trade FOR Mitch say his market is pretty depressed. He is injured, so yeah, his market is down just like most every other player in the same situation.
Agree, but the 18 months surprised me.
Not me, with the way iHart was playing. They didn't see iHart getting paid what he did. But I'm sure there was sense that they would have to pay up. Paying $30M, at the time, for a center tandem was probably a no-go.
Good point about iHart, makes sense. OKC!! 😡
During the playoffs, generally speaking, your main 1A guys will always play 35+min. It's just the nature of things. Brunson and KAT will be on the court a lot, during playoffs. And you want those guys at their peak to give your team the best chance at winning. So, elite wing defenders who can space are the best compliments. Generically, that's what the vision is. And the Knicks view KAT as a 5 to take advantage of his best talents. He is not there to rim protect and they have told us they AOK with that because of the spacing upsides. The other players need to be defenders and rebounders and shooters. Brunson needs the same complimentary players as KAT.
Having Mitch on the team is a very good, unique positive. But he plays the same position where KAT is most advantageous. If Mitch could do Mitch things for 70 games, he would have a place on the team, but he can't. So, downgrade the backup C position and use that value to grab what you want: wing defender who can shoot.
What is better, a wing defender spacer who you can rotate through with Mikal, OG, Hart, and whatever with a lesser backup 5 or a maybe Mitch who you can't count on and may not be there for an entire playoffs or miss 2 months of the season?
Leon is choosing to have wings tonight. I like grilled, not deep fried. Garlic Parm, buffalo mix is a western NY specialty. I die for Jamaican jerk style anything. Lager beer to wash it down. I grew up on Yeungling.
martin wrote:The more I think about it, the more I am convinced Mitch is gone. Maybe not soon, but eventually.During the playoffs, generally speaking, your main 1A guys will always play 35+min. It's just the nature of things. Brunson and KAT will be on the court a lot, during playoffs. And you want those guys at their peak to give your team the best chance at winning. So, elite wing defenders who can space are the best compliments. Generically, that's what the vision is. And the Knicks view KAT as a 5 to take advantage of his best talents. He is not there to rim protect and they have told us they AOK with that because of the spacing upsides. The other players need to be defenders and rebounders and shooters. Brunson needs the same complimentary players as KAT.
Having Mitch on the team is a very good, unique positive. But he plays the same position where KAT is most advantageous. If Mitch could do Mitch things for 70 games, he would have a place on the team, but he can't. So, downgrade the backup C position and use that value to grab what you want: wing defender who can shoot.
What is better, a wing defender spacer who you can rotate through with Mikal, OG, Hart, and whatever with a lesser backup 5 or a maybe Mitch who you can't count on and may not be there for an entire playoffs or miss 2 months of the season?
Leon is choosing to have wings tonight. I like grilled, not deep fried. Garlic Parm, buffalo mix is a western NY specialty. I die for Jamaican jerk style anything. Lager beer to wash it down. I grew up on Yeungling.
Thibs loves Mitch’s defense and he is the best offensive rebounder in the league.
KAT at 4 or Mitch as backup is not so bad.
HofstraBBall wrote:martin wrote:The more I think about it, the more I am convinced Mitch is gone. Maybe not soon, but eventually.During the playoffs, generally speaking, your main 1A guys will always play 35+min. It's just the nature of things. Brunson and KAT will be on the court a lot, during playoffs. And you want those guys at their peak to give your team the best chance at winning. So, elite wing defenders who can space are the best compliments. Generically, that's what the vision is. And the Knicks view KAT as a 5 to take advantage of his best talents. He is not there to rim protect and they have told us they AOK with that because of the spacing upsides. The other players need to be defenders and rebounders and shooters. Brunson needs the same complimentary players as KAT.
Having Mitch on the team is a very good, unique positive. But he plays the same position where KAT is most advantageous. If Mitch could do Mitch things for 70 games, he would have a place on the team, but he can't. So, downgrade the backup C position and use that value to grab what you want: wing defender who can shoot.
What is better, a wing defender spacer who you can rotate through with Mikal, OG, Hart, and whatever with a lesser backup 5 or a maybe Mitch who you can't count on and may not be there for an entire playoffs or miss 2 months of the season?
Leon is choosing to have wings tonight. I like grilled, not deep fried. Garlic Parm, buffalo mix is a western NY specialty. I die for Jamaican jerk style anything. Lager beer to wash it down. I grew up on Yeungling.
Thibs loves Mitch’s defense and he is the best offensive rebounder in the league.
KAT at 4 or Mitch as backup is not so bad.
You are not wrong. I just have no idea why Knicks are still trying to trade him, it’s weird.
martin wrote:The more I think about it, the more I am convinced Mitch is gone. Maybe not soon, but eventually.During the playoffs, generally speaking, your main 1A guys will always play 35+min. It's just the nature of things. Brunson and KAT will be on the court a lot, during playoffs. And you want those guys at their peak to give your team the best chance at winning. So, elite wing defenders who can space are the best compliments. Generically, that's what the vision is. And the Knicks view KAT as a 5 to take advantage of his best talents. He is not there to rim protect and they have told us they AOK with that because of the spacing upsides. The other players need to be defenders and rebounders and shooters. Brunson needs the same complimentary players as KAT.
Having Mitch on the team is a very good, unique positive. But he plays the same position where KAT is most advantageous. If Mitch could do Mitch things for 70 games, he would have a place on the team, but he can't. So, downgrade the backup C position and use that value to grab what you want: wing defender who can shoot.
What is better, a wing defender spacer who you can rotate through with Mikal, OG, Hart, and whatever with a lesser backup 5 or a maybe Mitch who you can't count on and may not be there for an entire playoffs or miss 2 months of the season?
Leon is choosing to have wings tonight. I like grilled, not deep fried. Garlic Parm, buffalo mix is a western NY specialty. I die for Jamaican jerk style anything. Lager beer to wash it down. I grew up on Yeungling.
I think I will pick up some jerk pork on the way home tomorrow with some Fosters beer. Eat it maybe with some arroz con gandules, I really trust Leon this off season. I'm sure the team was forced into this predicament when I Hart left. But the front office hasn't panicked. Concentrated on elite wings. Mitch would be great to keep but is a injury waiting to happen. I wonder if he can even make it thru the playoffs. I think if they can get a 3 and D wing to add to the crop to replace Dante we could manage with Towns/Precious/Simms and still keep the MLE for a buyout perhaps.
What Knicks need are a suitable back up either by Sims/Huk or another root to develop. Perhaps all in tandem as well.
If some team wants to pay for Leon and we can gain depth perhaps thats the proper route.
Nalod wrote:Leon can wait for a good offer. Not like we gonna hide Mitch's injury or his fragile status. Mitch will heal, perhaps return strong but not like his history will be erased. His situation is disclosed and teams will see his MRI and determine if they will extend him and at what price. Maybe he pulls a Kurt Thomas who had awful foot/ankle injuries then went on to play to age 40 and became durable. Time will tell.
What Knicks need are a suitable back up either by Sims/Huk or another root to develop. Perhaps all in tandem as well.If some team wants to pay for Leon and we can gain depth perhaps thats the proper route.
Yep. And then Leon will try to create a market as best as he can. Looks like NOP and Lakers have stepped up and that makes sense to me. The West is ungodly tough and if you have a Mitch Beast there for the playoffs to help protect the Brow, the Lakers will take the right chance. Same with NOP. When Mitch is ready or when buyers know they can't wait.
Knicks have a massive conundrum. He can play an important part if we keep him - but given we are "ALL IN," can we afford to have a guy whom you can't predict will be around.
That said if the above was a concern, would you pay 40MM to OG Anunoby?
VDesai wrote:For the theoretical 25-30 mpg per night backup defensive big role- theoretically Mitch Robinson is the perfect player in the NBA. Maybe you add someone like Rob Williams in that group. But the rub is, will they be around to play it?Knicks have a massive conundrum. He can play an important part if we keep him - but given we are "ALL IN," can we afford to have a guy whom you can't predict will be around.
That said if the above was a concern, would you pay 40MM to OG Anunoby?
I am agreeing with everything you say above.
IMHO OG is in a different discussion space relative to Mitch and games played. And there are obviously levels to this.
Was Kawhi a good player for Toronto. FUCK YES.
Has the same player Kawhi been a good player for LAC? Not really.
If he plays, he is worth it. If not, then not so much. The Knicks have made a black and white and no levels of grey decision. Both for OG and Mitch.
There are thoughts that GS nearly traded Steph Curry away because of perceived ankle issues. Maybe, maybe not.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:For the theoretical 25-30 mpg per night backup defensive big role- theoretically Mitch Robinson is the perfect player in the NBA. Maybe you add someone like Rob Williams in that group. But the rub is, will they be around to play it?Knicks have a massive conundrum. He can play an important part if we keep him - but given we are "ALL IN," can we afford to have a guy whom you can't predict will be around.
That said if the above was a concern, would you pay 40MM to OG Anunoby?
I am agreeing with everything you say above.
IMHO OG is in a different discussion space relative to Mitch and games played. And there are obviously levels to this.
Was Kawhi a good player for Toronto. FUCK YES.
Has the same player Kawhi been a good player for LAC? Not really.
If he plays, he is worth it. If not, then not so much. The Knicks have made a black and white and no levels of grey decision. Both for OG and Mitch.
So then should we be concluding that we KEEP Mitch? Chances are we are not getting a better card to play back (probably just a healthier one). So should be keep our face card knowing we can only play it half the time or trade it for an 8? I think for an all in team you bet on the higher upside and if you fail, you just accept you weren't gonna win anyway.
There is no doubt that with uncertainty into January that Mitch's value is at an all time low right now. I guess the move here is you roll with him, wait out his injury and then see if a team is ready to unload a salary at the deadline. Than either he is stacked in a deal to make that work or he comes back and you ride with him as long as he is able to ride.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:For the theoretical 25-30 mpg per night backup defensive big role- theoretically Mitch Robinson is the perfect player in the NBA. Maybe you add someone like Rob Williams in that group. But the rub is, will they be around to play it?Knicks have a massive conundrum. He can play an important part if we keep him - but given we are "ALL IN," can we afford to have a guy whom you can't predict will be around.
That said if the above was a concern, would you pay 40MM to OG Anunoby?
I am agreeing with everything you say above.
IMHO OG is in a different discussion space relative to Mitch and games played. And there are obviously levels to this.
Was Kawhi a good player for Toronto. FUCK YES.
Has the same player Kawhi been a good player for LAC? Not really.
If he plays, he is worth it. If not, then not so much. The Knicks have made a black and white and no levels of grey decision. Both for OG and Mitch.
So then should we be concluding that we KEEP Mitch? Chances are we are not getting a better card to play back (probably just a healthier one). So should be keep our face card knowing we can only play it half the time or trade it for an 8? I think for an all in team you bet on the higher upside and if you fail, you just accept you weren't gonna win anyway.There is no doubt that with uncertainty into January that Mitch's value is at an all time low right now. I guess the move here is you roll with him, wait out his injury and then see if a team is ready to unload a salary at the deadline. Than either he is stacked in a deal to make that work or he comes back and you ride with him as long as he is able to ride.
When you are selling something, it does not necessarily matter WHEN you sell it, it matters more that you get the best value you can within the timeline that make best sense for you. For instance, if you not in the championship playoff hunt like last couple of years, maybe you can wait half season to see how Mitch doing. If you going for the FINALS, you do everything you can on expedited timelines - prudently - as best as you can.
If you can create a market for Mitch today that is good enough exchange value, you do it.
It's not about keeping or not keeping Mitch until you think others will give you the best deal. Leon is going to create the market, that's why the Knicks FO is in constant talks with every other FO, it's their MO. That's their research phase and they were researching the market and also creating one at the same time when and where they have leverage.
If you know OKC is hot and heavy for Ousmane Dieng in the 2022 draft, you can exploit 3 first round picks just to move back 2 spots (researched and market exploited). And then you can exploit Charlotte knowing they hot for a center (Williams) and Duran to Detroit to get back cap space that yields Brunson because you have done your homework.
This is how Leon seems to work.
I would not be shocked to find out that Leon or Gersson Rosas was deep into the details of the TWolves ownership entanglements and was working at that level, creating and exploiting their financials.
Knicks: Herb Jones, Yves Missi (Mitch, Deuce out)
Pelicans: Nick Richards, Mitch (Yves Missi, Herb Jones out)
Charlotte: Deuce (Nick Richards, more out)
Knicks do this for an archetype wing who is under contract for 3 years and you (pretty much) avoid the second apron for the next 3+ years. Backup C position, not a good solution but better than nothing? Knicks prefer Trey but the financials are tougher.
Pelicans get fortified in the middle, remove an overlap wing role and can extend Trey and deal with BI from a financial perspective.
Charlotte gives up a backup C even though Mark Williams is hurt but gain a 3 year partner for LeMelo who takes the tough defensive assignment and is solid, young dude needing minutes. They get to properly tank because they have zero in the middle.
If Mitch is at all healthy right now he is most likely not traded or the deal is wildly different.