Knicks · Knicks traded for Towns (finally official 10/1) (page 21)

GustavBahler @ 9/29/2024 3:20 PM
I would be satisfied if KAT plays consistent, respectable D. Instead of going from both extremes, I think we’ll be in good shape.
BigDaddyG @ 9/29/2024 3:26 PM
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.
EwingsGlass @ 9/29/2024 3:39 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.

I could see KAT taking the next step here in NY. Yes. Same stratosphere as Jokic and Embiid? Not yet. But not out of realm of possibility.

Rookie @ 9/29/2024 3:44 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.

Yes, I am suggesting Towns is in the same stratosphere as Jokic on the defensive end. Are you suggesting Jokic is in the same stratosphere as Towns from 3pt range?

BigDaddyG @ 9/29/2024 4:21 PM
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.

Yes, I am suggesting Towns is in the same stratosphere as Jokic on the defensive end. Are you suggesting Jokic is in the same stratosphere as Towns from 3pt range?

No, but I'm suggesting Jokic is a better player. A way better player. Imma go out of my way and say the words "KAT for MVP have never been uttered. This is like saying DDV is close to Devin Booker because he's a better three point shooter. Jokic functions at such a high level on offense that it more than makes up for his defense. KAT isn't at that level.

Nalod @ 9/29/2024 4:22 PM
Young KAT, with hard ass Jimmy and Thibs on his ass was a bad mix.
That was then. This is now.
We don't just look at the past and superimpose on the future. Our roster has plenty of instances of guys stepping up.
Minny had a very good year last year with KAT a big part of that.
Its rare a team together wins a chip its first year. Health and chemistry matters.
Knicks made it to second round. Needed an upgrade. It comes with risks.
Randle came here with many questions. He answered many of them.
Brunson. Exceeded.
Not everything Leon touches worked. Few teams if any are flawless.
But we are in a really nice position.
We got KAT for two free agents and not one of our picks.
Kat and Randle are flawed all NBA Allstars. Funny, to say "Flawed and allnBA all-stars" in same sentence.
BigDaddyG @ 9/29/2024 4:26 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I could see KAT taking the next step here in NY. Yes. Same stratosphere as Jokic and Embiid? Not yet. But not out of realm of possibility.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that KAT can make some gradual steps. But he's entering season 10. I can say it's highly unlikely that KAT enters the Jokic/Embiid. I know, but Jalen! The difference is that KAT was given unlimited minutes and rostered built to his needs.

Rookie @ 9/29/2024 4:51 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.

Yes, I am suggesting Towns is in the same stratosphere as Jokic on the defensive end. Are you suggesting Jokic is in the same stratosphere as Towns from 3pt range?

No, but I'm suggesting Jokic is a better player. A way better player. Imma go out of my way and say the words "KAT for MVP have never been uttered. This is like saying DDV is close to Devin Booker because he's a better three point shooter. Jokic functions at such a high level on offense that it more than makes up for his defense. KAT isn't at that level.

Maybe you watched this already, it was posted earlier in this thread but I dunno. Look what Towns brings with his offensive skillset and tell me that this isn’t a great fit for this team.

martin @ 9/29/2024 4:52 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:

They said the same thing about iHart before he came here. And Thibs turned him into a run protector. I’m not worried about Kats defense. But other team will have nightmares guarding JB now. The RIM lanes will be WIDE OPEN. JB is cooking this year.

Thibs already had 2.5 years to work with KAT. Result lead to one of the worse defensive teams in the league.

That’s not how any of that works though, right? Even Mitch in his first 3 seasons wasn’t very fundamental on defense and he got all that defensive talent. It’s took iHart 1.5 years behind Mitch to even get a flow starting.

And that Minny team had a lots of bad, young defenders and players. IQ and McBrinde weren’t bad their first couple of years, they were inexperienced. Same with Brunson. Jalen is near MVP level but also maybe trade bait or short contract worthy until 3 years ago. Things take time.

Thibs understood that if Minny had a chance, it would be through offense, so that’s where they concentrated. I don’t think that’s a hard perspective to understand why a coach may lean into a team’s perceived strengths to get wins, especially when you are young and the team has turnover. That’s the circumstance of every rebuilding team.

Similarly, Melo is not a bad player cause he was surrounded by bad players with those crappy Knicks teams, just circumstances.

BigDaddyG @ 9/29/2024 5:31 PM
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:

They said the same thing about iHart before he came here. And Thibs turned him into a run protector. I’m not worried about Kats defense. But other team will have nightmares guarding JB now. The RIM lanes will be WIDE OPEN. JB is cooking this year.

Thibs already had 2.5 years to work with KAT. Result lead to one of the worse defensive teams in the league.

That’s not how any of that works though, right? Even Mitch in his first 3 seasons wasn’t very fundamental on defense and he got all that defensive talent. It’s took iHart 1.5 years behind Mitch to even get a flow starting.

And that Minny team had a lots of bad, young defenders and players. IQ and McBrinde weren’t bad their first couple of years, they were inexperienced. Same with Brunson. Jalen is near MVP level but also maybe trade bait or short contract worthy until 3 years ago. Things take time.

Thibs understood that if Minny had a chance, it would be through offense, so that’s where they concentrated. I don’t think that’s a hard perspective to understand why a coach may lean into a team’s perceived strengths to get wins, especially when you are young and the team has turnover. That’s the circumstance of every rebuilding team.

Similarly, Melo is not a bad player cause he was surrounded by bad players with those crappy Knicks teams, just circumstances.


In this case, I'd say that's exactly how it's worked for several years. KAT is bad at drop coverage and instead of fighting it, the Wolves decided to bring in Gobert. KAT is entering year 10 now. It's unlikely that he becomes a defensive center.
BigDaddyG @ 9/29/2024 5:41 PM
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.

Yes, I am suggesting Towns is in the same stratosphere as Jokic on the defensive end. Are you suggesting Jokic is in the same stratosphere as Towns from 3pt range?

No, but I'm suggesting Jokic is a better player. A way better player. Imma go out of my way and say the words "KAT for MVP have never been uttered. This is like saying DDV is close to Devin Booker because he's a better three point shooter. Jokic functions at such a high level on offense that it more than makes up for his defense. KAT isn't at that level.

Maybe you watched this already, it was posted earlier in this thread but I dunno. Look what Towns brings with his offensive skillset and tell me that this isn’t a great fit for this team.


I'm not arguing KAT is a scrub. My thing is, I don't really see him as center. If he's not a center, then what's the point? Even if you argue he's better than Randle, I'll pushback on anyone who says he Donte and a fake first round pick levels better than Randle. So what if Donte is unhappy. Trade him for a pick it a legit backup center. This move is lateral. We traded a borderline All NBA PF for another borderline All NBA PF. The difference is we're stuck with a borderline All NBA PF making $50M a year. You know what happens if he doesn't workout? The team is stuck with him. He's untradable for the next 3 years. Even if you extend Randle for 3/$40M, Randle and Donte combined still wouldn't take up as much cap space. If you're going to push all your chips in, I'd expect morenthan KAT.
martin @ 9/29/2024 5:51 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:In this case, I'd say that's exactly how it's worked for several years. KAT is bad at drop coverage and instead of fighting it, the Wolves decided to bring in Gobert. KAT is entering year 10 now. It's unlikely that he becomes a defensive center.

Yeah but no one is trying to make that case right? That’s not KAT’s role or expectation.

That’s the assumed starting point of just what he is. No one expecting Brunson to be a 2-way PG, his role is to destroy defenses. Thibs and team will absolutely help Brunson KAT be the best team defenders they can, that’s all you ask for because of their elite offensive abilities.

It’s why the Knicks have and traded for OG Mikal Hart Deuce Mitch. To cover Brunson and the KAT/Randle weaknesses, and also to enhance their strengths.

I don’t start with the assumption that every minutes of a Thibs team has to have elite rim protection. All Thibs talks about is NET rating. It’s clearer to understand FO roster construction after that departure.

Knicks FO are not going for perfect but rather as best as they can within their salary and asset pool.

jskinny35 @ 9/29/2024 6:06 PM
I believe when Mitch returns he will start at the 5 alongside KAT at the 4. Assuming Mitch is healthy, I think KAT will take some minutes at C and late in games when playing 4 vs 5 offensively isn't an option. I look at it as Towns is a better PF then Randle and can also offer minutes at the C position for certain matchups. Randle could not really do that so we did improve simply from the Randle/KAT swap. No doubt we paid a steep price as DDV embodied our team culture, was clutch and will be missed more than Randle IMO. I don't think we have to freak out if KAT doesn't improve his defense significantly... just can he offer minutes at the 5 enough to offset Mitch's inability to shoot outside of dunking.
martin @ 9/29/2024 6:16 PM
jskinny35 wrote:I believe when Mitch returns he will start at the 5 alongside KAT at the 4. Assuming Mitch is healthy, I think KAT will take some minutes at C and late in games when playing 4 vs 5 offensively isn't an option. I look at it as Towns is a better PF then Randle and can also offer minutes at the C position for certain matchups. Randle could not really do that so we did improve simply from the Randle/KAT swap. No doubt we paid a steep price as DDV embodied our team culture, was clutch and will be missed more than Randle IMO. I don't think we have to freak out if KAT doesn't improve his defense significantly... just can he offer minutes at the 5 enough to offset Mitch's inability to shoot outside of dunking.

Not for nothing but Knicks could roll with the 5 out lineup most of the year and if they meet Cleveland or Sixers in playoffs, Mitch starts.

Don’t have to be complicated.

Rookie @ 9/29/2024 6:16 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.

Yes, I am suggesting Towns is in the same stratosphere as Jokic on the defensive end. Are you suggesting Jokic is in the same stratosphere as Towns from 3pt range?

No, but I'm suggesting Jokic is a better player. A way better player. Imma go out of my way and say the words "KAT for MVP have never been uttered. This is like saying DDV is close to Devin Booker because he's a better three point shooter. Jokic functions at such a high level on offense that it more than makes up for his defense. KAT isn't at that level.

Maybe you watched this already, it was posted earlier in this thread but I dunno. Look what Towns brings with his offensive skillset and tell me that this isn’t a great fit for this team.


I'm not arguing KAT is a scrub. My thing is, I don't really see him as center. If he's not a center, then what's the point? Even if you argue he's better than Randle, I'll pushback on anyone who says he Donte and a fake first round pick levels better than Randle. So what if Donte is unhappy. Trade him for a pick it a legit backup center. This move is lateral. We traded a borderline All NBA PF for another borderline All NBA PF. The difference is we're stuck with a borderline All NBA PF making $50M a year. You know what happens if he doesn't workout? The team is stuck with him. He's untradable for the next 3 years. Even if you extend Randle for 3/$40M, Randle and Donte combined still wouldn't take up as much cap space. If you're going to push all your chips in, I'd expect morenthan KAT.

We won 50 games this last season. With this trade I am very comfortable predicting a 56 win season, so yes, I think the trade makes us a better team. We struggled in the playoffs against Miami. Our offense is better now and not as stagnant. I have zero worries we are a better team than Miami with this trade. We barely beat Philly with a hobbled Embiid. This team with Towns is better than the Sixers and Indiana....Cleveland, Orlando and Milwaukee. We will also match up against Boston very well. With this trade, we are a better team so no, this was not a lateral move

jskinny35 @ 9/29/2024 6:17 PM
Agree - point is we have better options/flexibility then before we made the trade. Think it will work even if KAT is not a great defender.
Rookie @ 9/29/2024 6:19 PM
jskinny35 wrote:I believe when Mitch returns he will start at the 5 alongside KAT at the 4. Assuming Mitch is healthy, I think KAT will take some minutes at C and late in games when playing 4 vs 5 offensively isn't an option. I look at it as Towns is a better PF then Randle and can also offer minutes at the C position for certain matchups. Randle could not really do that so we did improve simply from the Randle/KAT swap. No doubt we paid a steep price as DDV embodied our team culture, was clutch and will be missed more than Randle IMO. I don't think we have to freak out if KAT doesn't improve his defense significantly... just can he offer minutes at the 5 enough to offset Mitch's inability to shoot outside of dunking.

We have so much flexibility now with this trade, we can play any number of different line ups the last 8 minutes of games depending on match ups. This trade made us a better team.

martin @ 9/29/2024 6:21 PM
BigDaddyG @ 9/29/2024 6:25 PM
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:In this case, I'd say that's exactly how it's worked for several years. KAT is bad at drop coverage and instead of fighting it, the Wolves decided to bring in Gobert. KAT is entering year 10 now. It's unlikely that he becomes a defensive center.

Yeah but no one is trying to make that case right? That’s not KAT’s role or expectation.

That’s the assumed starting point of just what he is. No one expecting Brunson to be a 2-way PG, his role is to destroy defenses. Thibs and team will absolutely help Brunson KAT be the best team defenders they can, that’s all you ask for because of their elite offensive abilities.

It’s why the Knicks have and traded for OG Mikal Hart Deuce Mitch. To cover Brunson and the KAT/Randle weaknesses, and also to enhance their strengths.

I don’t start with the assumption that every minutes of a Thibs team has to have elite rim protection. All Thibs talks about is NET rating. It’s clearer to understand FO roster construction after that departure.

Knicks FO are not going for perfect but rather as best as they can within their salary and asset pool.

I've heard quite a few people say this trade was made with the expectation that KAT will be our stretch 5. But, KAT is just bad at it defensively. If he's not a stretch 5, that just makes him a tall 4. Cool. He's a slight upgrade over Randle. But the bench got significantly weaker, the cap is even more mucked up and we still need a center. I'd say this roster is probably a better matchup for Boston now than it was pre-trade. I'd say the same for Philadelphia. This FO has been on quite roll, but they haven't been perfect. Obi, Kemba, Fournier...I think this FO has made a gamble that was 1( unnecessary at this point and time and 2)doesn't get this team any closer to a title.

blkexec @ 9/29/2024 6:27 PM
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:In this case, I'd say that's exactly how it's worked for several years. KAT is bad at drop coverage and instead of fighting it, the Wolves decided to bring in Gobert. KAT is entering year 10 now. It's unlikely that he becomes a defensive center.

Yeah but no one is trying to make that case right? That’s not KAT’s role or expectation.

That’s the assumed starting point of just what he is. No one expecting Brunson to be a 2-way PG, his role is to destroy defenses. Thibs and team will absolutely help Brunson KAT be the best team defenders they can, that’s all you ask for because of their elite offensive abilities.

It’s why the Knicks have and traded for OG Mikal Hart Deuce Mitch. To cover Brunson and the KAT/Randle weaknesses, and also to enhance their strengths.

I don’t start with the assumption that every minutes of a Thibs team has to have elite rim protection. All Thibs talks about is NET rating. It’s clearer to understand FO roster construction after that departure.

Knicks FO are not going for perfect but rather as best as they can within their salary and asset pool.

FO are not going for perfect but rather as best as they can within their salary and asset pool.

This sums it up. As fans we tend to look for the perfect trade. But that’s not realistic.

And if there were contract disagreements, I rather the FO make a move now than to have this contract dispute become a distraction or worse let Randle walk for free. Or be forced into a last minute trade. They wanted Kat for years and took this opportunity to get their guy. Same thing with JB. Leon gets who he wants.

This trade seems like it filled multiple needs. Perfect fill? Hell no. But they did a lot in one trade from a lot of different perspectives outside of what fans see.

We don’t have insight into Randles contract demands, his recovery and health, his satisfaction level of his new role, the minutes this opens up with other players, DDV status on his new bench role, I can go on and on. We added 2-3 players that already play PF. And Leon wanted Kat who also plays PF. We have a superstar in JB. Randles role got smaller and smaller since JB arrived, then OG and now Mikal. I remember at one time someone said Randle should just be a corner 3 pt shooter. Make quicker decisions instead of dribbling the air out the ball. Sometimes players are not willing to sacrifice both money and playing style. Randle probably said I sacrificed enough, now pay me.

Seems like Leon did a great job with the cards he was delt. Leon isn’t perfect or flawless. But he’s done enough positives with this roster to trust him. We haven’t had a competent FO like this in my lifetime. And I was 6 months old when we last won a chip.

I believe in Leon, JB and Thibs to make something special with this current roster. I’ve decided to stay out the kitchen and let them cook.

As long as they add a little DEUCE on the side for that extra defensive flava, I’m good

BigDaddyG @ 9/29/2024 6:29 PM
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:

How can anyone hate this trade?

Hold on, yes, I loved Randle and Donte. That three against the Sixers runs rent-free in my mind. I wish them luck in their new situation.

But man! MAN! Remember many seasons ago when we were hoping for a star Point Guard and we finally got our star in Brunson? And his connection to the Knicks was clear since the beginning as a young NY fan?

What about a stretch 5 to truly compete in this era, a very talented and legit 7-footer who has played at his best as a Center and has the shot to rival guards! And the guy was a Knicks fan as a kid as well?! And his reasons to appreciate the franchise even beyond his fan hood are solid. He must be conflicted because he really seems to love Min and who wouldn’t after 9 years, but he is indeed coming home. He now has a chance to get his game to a new level while playing for his childhood team?

I’m very excited about this! Yes, people have questions and I’m glad there are because that means there is potential for better days from him. Just like it was with Brunson, so many doubting him and calling him a bench player and nothing more.

This is such a cool team to represent New York! I’m very excited about what this all could lead to!

The issue I have with the trade is that KAT isn't a center, IMHO. If the trade is Randle/Divo for a legit stretch "5", I can get behind the vision. Randle/Divo for another 4 who isnt substantially better seems like a lateral move, at best.

Would you consider Jokic a good defender? If not, then I guess it would be impossible for Denver to win a chip with him playing center or to make deep playoff runs. I really don’t get the argument. Towns does a lot of things at an elite level but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe you just really wanted to keep the status quo with Randle and Divo. Towns is a VERY good basketball player. Hating on him because maybe he’s not a plus defender is illogical. There’s a video on this thread of Towns bombing 3’s, then further in it details how he gets to the basket. There is so much to like there. It’s such a mute improvement over putting your head down and dribbling into 3 guys guarding the basket. Our floor spacing is going to give teams nightmares. No more 5-10 minute stretches where we can’t score. Our team got better. We upgraded talent. It’s all good. DDV can be replaced. His replacement might even already be on the team. What we really need is a healthy Mitch which isn’t Towns’s fault


Are you suggesting KAT is in the same stratosphere as Jokic? KAT shoots at an elite level. That's not a lot of things. KAT is a flawed star, like many in the league. Heck, Jokic is flawed. But he's still miles ahead of KAT in terms of impact. Yes, I'm hating on Towns because he's not a plus defender. The premise I'm hearing is that KAT is this stretch 5 who will lead the team to the promise land. But, how accurate is that if you can't defend the position full-time. The reason KP works is that he provides elite rim protection. As of now, all I can say is that team traded a borderline All NBA PF and a starting level SG for a borderline All NBA PF. I don't think it moves the needle.

Yes, I am suggesting Towns is in the same stratosphere as Jokic on the defensive end. Are you suggesting Jokic is in the same stratosphere as Towns from 3pt range?

No, but I'm suggesting Jokic is a better player. A way better player. Imma go out of my way and say the words "KAT for MVP have never been uttered. This is like saying DDV is close to Devin Booker because he's a better three point shooter. Jokic functions at such a high level on offense that it more than makes up for his defense. KAT isn't at that level.

Maybe you watched this already, it was posted earlier in this thread but I dunno. Look what Towns brings with his offensive skillset and tell me that this isn’t a great fit for this team.


I'm not arguing KAT is a scrub. My thing is, I don't really see him as center. If he's not a center, then what's the point? Even if you argue he's better than Randle, I'll pushback on anyone who says he Donte and a fake first round pick levels better than Randle. So what if Donte is unhappy. Trade him for a pick it a legit backup center. This move is lateral. We traded a borderline All NBA PF for another borderline All NBA PF. The difference is we're stuck with a borderline All NBA PF making $50M a year. You know what happens if he doesn't workout? The team is stuck with him. He's untradable for the next 3 years. Even if you extend Randle for 3/$40M, Randle and Donte combined still wouldn't take up as much cap space. If you're going to push all your chips in, I'd expect morenthan KAT.

We won 50 games this last season. With this trade I am very comfortable predicting a 56 win season, so yes, I think the trade makes us a better team. We struggled in the playoffs against Miami. Our offense is better now and not as stagnant. I have zero worries we are a better team than Miami with this trade. We barely beat Philly with a hobbled Embiid. This team with Towns is better than the Sixers and Indiana....Cleveland, Orlando and Milwaukee. We will also match up against Boston very well. With this trade, we are a better team so no, this was not a lateral move


I'd say this looked like a 56 win team when Randle, OG, Brunson were all healthy. The team's strength was it's depth and that's taken a hit. Imma say this team as it stands now has taken a step backwards
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