martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:gradyandrew wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Deuce, Hart, Mikal, OG, Towns give u three decent ball handlers to get up the court. With Towns operating out of the high post opening up the lanes for drives/cuts and loose ball opportunities off of long distance shots.
I'd be really surprised to see that lineup. I think Payne was brought in to be the PG off the bench. For their careers Payne and McBride have averaged 8.9 vs 4 6 assists per 100 possessions, respectively. McBride also had a really strong net rating in his minutes with Brunson. McBride might still be the first guy off the bench, replacing Bridges who will be asked to carry the offense when Brunson sits.
We will def see that lineup at times imo. It would be elite defensively from 1-4 around KAT, as well as provide optimal spacing. Hart, Bridges, KAT can all put up 3-4 ast per game. Which offsets the necessity for playmaking at the PG position. The combination of defense and ball movement for that lineup is greater than with Payne, who isn't a good defender. We would get bump in creation with Payne over Deuce sure. But the defensive drop off is more drastic.
Yeah this is another iteration of a 5-out Knicks death lineup with defense, I’d expect Thibs to show the first hints of joy by cracking a smile on the side lines.
Deuce may never be the passing PG that would match Kolek’s decision-making or Brunson’s scoring instincts, but holy hell, if a Hart Mikal Deuce lineup can find enough cohesion from an offensive standpoint, look the fuck out.
They don't fully need to with KAT operating out of the high post. One of Deuce, Hart, Mikal can get the ball up the court. Run a 2 man game with KAT, or run plays designed with KAT in the high post for back door cuts, or free Deuce, OG or Mikal up with off ball picks to receive the ball either to catch and shoot or drive into the paint.
Or just flat out iso KAT.
Outside of that. Broken plays, loose balls, fast breaks should all be tilted in Knicks favor given the pest that are on the court.
Oh for sure. I do wonder what tact Thibs will take with Deuce now that Cam and Kolek on roster. Give him a few months and an adequate amount of minutes in the PG role for some development reps or nah cause Knicks on a winning at all costs mission?
Maybe CP3 needed to stay near west coast cause of family or he wanted to dive into Pops wine cellar but he would have been the perfect PG off bench for Knicks for a year.
There was a chance that Deuce could of been traded. Payne was def insurance for that. Thibs can if he wanted to just plug Deuce in at SG. But he would need to either cut the rotation shorter or reduce Deuce mins overall.
Deuce will get first crack. If it hinders the offense then Thibs will poke around with the alternative. Less mins for Deuce, and Payne getting the backup PG mins. Unless Kolek surprises and starts to beat him out. As well as the alternative that Deuce is still traded for a higher end combo playmaking combo guard. If that shows itself to be a necessity.
newyorknewyork wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:gradyandrew wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Deuce, Hart, Mikal, OG, Towns give u three decent ball handlers to get up the court. With Towns operating out of the high post opening up the lanes for drives/cuts and loose ball opportunities off of long distance shots.
I'd be really surprised to see that lineup. I think Payne was brought in to be the PG off the bench. For their careers Payne and McBride have averaged 8.9 vs 4 6 assists per 100 possessions, respectively. McBride also had a really strong net rating in his minutes with Brunson. McBride might still be the first guy off the bench, replacing Bridges who will be asked to carry the offense when Brunson sits.
We will def see that lineup at times imo. It would be elite defensively from 1-4 around KAT, as well as provide optimal spacing. Hart, Bridges, KAT can all put up 3-4 ast per game. Which offsets the necessity for playmaking at the PG position. The combination of defense and ball movement for that lineup is greater than with Payne, who isn't a good defender. We would get bump in creation with Payne over Deuce sure. But the defensive drop off is more drastic.
Yeah this is another iteration of a 5-out Knicks death lineup with defense, I’d expect Thibs to show the first hints of joy by cracking a smile on the side lines.
Deuce may never be the passing PG that would match Kolek’s decision-making or Brunson’s scoring instincts, but holy hell, if a Hart Mikal Deuce lineup can find enough cohesion from an offensive standpoint, look the fuck out.
They don't fully need to with KAT operating out of the high post. One of Deuce, Hart, Mikal can get the ball up the court. Run a 2 man game with KAT, or run plays designed with KAT in the high post for back door cuts, or free Deuce, OG or Mikal up with off ball picks to receive the ball either to catch and shoot or drive into the paint.
Or just flat out iso KAT.
Outside of that. Broken plays, loose balls, fast breaks should all be tilted in Knicks favor given the pest that are on the court.
Oh for sure. I do wonder what tact Thibs will take with Deuce now that Cam and Kolek on roster. Give him a few months and an adequate amount of minutes in the PG role for some development reps or nah cause Knicks on a winning at all costs mission?
Maybe CP3 needed to stay near west coast cause of family or he wanted to dive into Pops wine cellar but he would have been the perfect PG off bench for Knicks for a year.
There was a chance that Deuce could of been traded. Payne was def insurance for that. Thibs can if he wanted to just plug Deuce in at SG. But he would need to either cut the rotation shorter or reduce Deuce mins overall.
Deuce will get first crack. If it hinders the offense then Thibs will poke around with the alternative. Less mins for Deuce, and Payne getting the backup PG mins. Unless Kolek surprises and starts to beat him out. As well as the alternative that Deuce is still traded for a higher end combo playmaking combo guard. If that shows itself to be a necessity.
Agreed. It behooves the Knicks to play Deuce as much as they can, for team, for Deuce, for trade value.
This trade could not have been passed up.
With all that .. I am not sure about the
Additions with subtraction part!
Can't compare J.Randall to Karl A.T
However Donte DiVincenzo and healthy Randall
DID FIT IN New York, Mecca of hoops.
#THISBETTERWORK ! 
⁶
DJMUSIC wrote:This trade could not have been passed up.
With all that .. I am not sure about the
Additions with subtraction part!
Can't compare J.Randall to Karl A.T
However Donte DiVincenzo and healthy Randall
DID FIT IN New York, Mecca of hoops.
#THISBETTERWORK ! ⁶
I’m still bummed. 
Julius and Donte were everything we love in Knicks players.
I hope we meet in the finals, and may the best team win.
martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:gradyandrew wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Deuce, Hart, Mikal, OG, Towns give u three decent ball handlers to get up the court. With Towns operating out of the high post opening up the lanes for drives/cuts and loose ball opportunities off of long distance shots.
I'd be really surprised to see that lineup. I think Payne was brought in to be the PG off the bench. For their careers Payne and McBride have averaged 8.9 vs 4 6 assists per 100 possessions, respectively. McBride also had a really strong net rating in his minutes with Brunson. McBride might still be the first guy off the bench, replacing Bridges who will be asked to carry the offense when Brunson sits.
We will def see that lineup at times imo. It would be elite defensively from 1-4 around KAT, as well as provide optimal spacing. Hart, Bridges, KAT can all put up 3-4 ast per game. Which offsets the necessity for playmaking at the PG position. The combination of defense and ball movement for that lineup is greater than with Payne, who isn't a good defender. We would get bump in creation with Payne over Deuce sure. But the defensive drop off is more drastic.
Yeah this is another iteration of a 5-out Knicks death lineup with defense, I’d expect Thibs to show the first hints of joy by cracking a smile on the side lines.
Deuce may never be the passing PG that would match Kolek’s decision-making or Brunson’s scoring instincts, but holy hell, if a Hart Mikal Deuce lineup can find enough cohesion from an offensive standpoint, look the fuck out.
They don't fully need to with KAT operating out of the high post. One of Deuce, Hart, Mikal can get the ball up the court. Run a 2 man game with KAT, or run plays designed with KAT in the high post for back door cuts, or free Deuce, OG or Mikal up with off ball picks to receive the ball either to catch and shoot or drive into the paint.
Or just flat out iso KAT.
Outside of that. Broken plays, loose balls, fast breaks should all be tilted in Knicks favor given the pest that are on the court.
Oh for sure. I do wonder what tact Thibs will take with Deuce now that Cam and Kolek on roster. Give him a few months and an adequate amount of minutes in the PG role for some development reps or nah cause Knicks on a winning at all costs mission?
Maybe CP3 needed to stay near west coast cause of family or he wanted to dive into Pops wine cellar but he would have been the perfect PG off bench for Knicks for a year.
There was a chance that Deuce could of been traded. Payne was def insurance for that. Thibs can if he wanted to just plug Deuce in at SG. But he would need to either cut the rotation shorter or reduce Deuce mins overall.
Deuce will get first crack. If it hinders the offense then Thibs will poke around with the alternative. Less mins for Deuce, and Payne getting the backup PG mins. Unless Kolek surprises and starts to beat him out. As well as the alternative that Deuce is still traded for a higher end combo playmaking combo guard. If that shows itself to be a necessity.
Agreed. It behooves the Knicks to play Deuce as much as they can, for team, for Deuce, for trade value.
I see Kolek as having to earn minutes from Cam Payne.
I see Hart fending off his minutes from Deuce and Shamet.
I see Shamet taking minutes at Sg/Sf even if undersized, due to quality of his shooting.
The starting unit is a little behind the second unit. Will take some time to gel.
I don’t necessarily think Deuce needs to be on the block. There isn’t a ton available I would trade him for. Robinson and Deuce for TMurphy and HJones in a nanosecond. Even if Trey’s hammy is barking.
At full strength, they could easily run two full lines as is.
Love seeing KAT screen. That’s gonna be deadly. Want to see him passing out of the low post also.
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:martin wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:gradyandrew wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Deuce, Hart, Mikal, OG, Towns give u three decent ball handlers to get up the court. With Towns operating out of the high post opening up the lanes for drives/cuts and loose ball opportunities off of long distance shots.
I'd be really surprised to see that lineup. I think Payne was brought in to be the PG off the bench. For their careers Payne and McBride have averaged 8.9 vs 4 6 assists per 100 possessions, respectively. McBride also had a really strong net rating in his minutes with Brunson. McBride might still be the first guy off the bench, replacing Bridges who will be asked to carry the offense when Brunson sits.
We will def see that lineup at times imo. It would be elite defensively from 1-4 around KAT, as well as provide optimal spacing. Hart, Bridges, KAT can all put up 3-4 ast per game. Which offsets the necessity for playmaking at the PG position. The combination of defense and ball movement for that lineup is greater than with Payne, who isn't a good defender. We would get bump in creation with Payne over Deuce sure. But the defensive drop off is more drastic.
Yeah this is another iteration of a 5-out Knicks death lineup with defense, I’d expect Thibs to show the first hints of joy by cracking a smile on the side lines.
Deuce may never be the passing PG that would match Kolek’s decision-making or Brunson’s scoring instincts, but holy hell, if a Hart Mikal Deuce lineup can find enough cohesion from an offensive standpoint, look the fuck out.
They don't fully need to with KAT operating out of the high post. One of Deuce, Hart, Mikal can get the ball up the court. Run a 2 man game with KAT, or run plays designed with KAT in the high post for back door cuts, or free Deuce, OG or Mikal up with off ball picks to receive the ball either to catch and shoot or drive into the paint.
Or just flat out iso KAT.
Outside of that. Broken plays, loose balls, fast breaks should all be tilted in Knicks favor given the pest that are on the court.
Oh for sure. I do wonder what tact Thibs will take with Deuce now that Cam and Kolek on roster. Give him a few months and an adequate amount of minutes in the PG role for some development reps or nah cause Knicks on a winning at all costs mission?
Maybe CP3 needed to stay near west coast cause of family or he wanted to dive into Pops wine cellar but he would have been the perfect PG off bench for Knicks for a year.
There was a chance that Deuce could of been traded. Payne was def insurance for that. Thibs can if he wanted to just plug Deuce in at SG. But he would need to either cut the rotation shorter or reduce Deuce mins overall.
Deuce will get first crack. If it hinders the offense then Thibs will poke around with the alternative. Less mins for Deuce, and Payne getting the backup PG mins. Unless Kolek surprises and starts to beat him out. As well as the alternative that Deuce is still traded for a higher end combo playmaking combo guard. If that shows itself to be a necessity.
Agreed. It behooves the Knicks to play Deuce as much as they can, for team, for Deuce, for trade value.
I see Kolek as having to earn minutes from Cam Payne.
I see Hart fending off his minutes from Deuce and Shamet.
I see Shamet taking minutes at Sg/Sf even if undersized, due to quality of his shooting.
The starting unit is a little behind the second unit. Will take some time to gel.
I don’t necessarily think Deuce needs to be on the block. There isn’t a ton available I would trade him for. Robinson and Deuce for TMurphy and HJones in a nanosecond. Even if Trey’s hammy is barking.
At full strength, they could easily run two full lines as is.
Love seeing KAT screen. That’s gonna be deadly. Want to see him passing out of the low post also.
If there was a world where Mitch wasn’t hurt at end of last season and was OK right now, I wonder what NOP would think of that exchange.
So, through 5 preseason games, I cannot say Towns has been more impactful than what Randle would have given us (assuming he was healthy).
Panos wrote:So, through 5 preseason games, I cannot say Towns has been more impactful than what Randle would have given us (assuming he was healthy).
I still haven’t moved on from January.
Fuckin’ Jaime.
Panos wrote:So, through 5 preseason games, I cannot say Towns has been more impactful than what Randle would have given us (assuming he was healthy).
We're starting to see Brunson and KAT get on the same page. KAT moving the ball better. He seems more willing to drive than he did in Minny. A month into the season should give us a better idea of how Towns fits in the offense. Still getting to know his teammates, and their tendencies
Panos wrote:So, through 5 preseason games, I cannot say Towns has been more impactful than what Randle would have given us (assuming he was healthy).
Might need like 50 more REAL games to see it. Preseason is has a purpose. Two new starters needs time to build chemistry.
Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:So, through 5 preseason games, I cannot say Towns has been more impactful than what Randle would have given us (assuming he was healthy).
Might need like 50 more REAL games to see it. Preseason is has a purpose. Two new starters needs time to build chemistry.
I really hope fans and the media don't freak out if we get off to a slow start building that chemistry. I think we got to stay above .500 and after Christmas we will be ready to roll. It's always about finishing strong anyway. Games in October and November don't mean much aside from the standings and homecourt in the playoffs have proven to be overrated.
BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Well... At least he doesn't spin while turning the ball over.
Thought you hated Randle? 
Or just hate KAT? More
Trade?
Don't worry. You'll know when my hate reaches it's ultimate peak.
https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...
One game but I really wonder if anyone here played or watched basketball.
We knew when we traded Randle and Divo for finesse guys like Bridges and KAT that we were getting a softer core. For me, NY basketball has always been about dogs and playing in the light.
We gave up two for soft small market sharks.
However, don’t get the hate after one game. I may have feared what those two have been after years of watching a lot of NBA ball but you can’t say they are not capable of being what we want them to be after just one game.
Long season. NY will toughen them up.
One game overreaction is OG was absent after big deal.
KAT absent while continuing big deal.
Bridges absent after everyone said he was so good?
But all good players need time to mesh and find a role.
Yea, they need to step up but half a season should be a fair timeframe .
But like I said, watching them for last few years, they have to change how they have been to make it in the Mecca.
Twolves could have sat back and just drafted Kessler and had him off the bench instead of Gobert.
Maybe Naz and Jaden McDaniels and Nickeil Alexander-Walker didn't mature fully until later, but you could have had a similar team of Ant/KAT with low usage defenders who can also pop up offensively.
They screwed up building out their foundation.
But thank you for helping out the Knicks.
HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Well... At least he doesn't spin while turning the ball over.
Thought you hated Randle?
Or just hate KAT? More
Trade?
Don't worry. You'll know when my hate reaches it's ultimate peak.
https://www.si.com/nba/executives-timber...
One game but I really wonder if anyone here played or watched basketball.
We knew when we traded Randle and Divo for finesse guys like Bridges and KAT that we were getting a softer core. For me, NY basketball has always been about dogs and playing in the light.
We gave up two for soft small market sharks.
However, don’t get the hate after one game. I may have feared what those two have been after years of watching a lot of NBA ball but you can’t say they are not capable of being what we want them to be after just one game.
Long season. NY will toughen them up.
One game overreaction is OG was absent after big deal.
KAT absent while continuing big deal.
Bridges absent after everyone said he was so good?
But all good players need time to mesh and find a role.
Yea, they need to step up but half a season should be a fair timeframe .
But like I said, watching them for last few years, they have to change how they have been to make it in the Mecca.
I think the bold was the assumption, but not the case. If KAT is a finesse player it's only because his skill set is so deep. There is nothing soft about him on either side of the ball. His help is shit but his m2m is good and he's done a great job vs. opposing centers. In watching KAT vs. Embiid, Turner, Lopez, Vujacek, Joker, BAM, there is nothing soft about KAT. We really dominated those matchups.
SergioNYK wrote:Not the news I was expecting to wake up to. I don't like it. I don't like Towns' game or on the court personality. He's soft. I wouldn't even have traded Randle straight up for him. Randle is a better player imo. And giving away DVo, our best shooter, was overkill. Hope I am wrong but Wolves got a lot better and we did not.
I'm on a roll! Love being wrong!
TWolves had cap issues and ownership controversy. We about a third into the season and neither team really has clicked in long stretches.
Kat was made scapegoat for a long time given his sitting due to injury, Covid, and losing a loved one. WE think millions and millions makes it easier for these guys to be mature but the young men dealing with great performance issues. Maturity has a lot to do with is emergence this year and Thibs knows what the fuck he is doing.
Minny had a good season last year and on paper they are balanced. But reality is they need time together to work it thru. Rudy messed up a few game ago and Randle has his diva moments also. Im sure they will figure it out.
Conley is fading and DDV is off to a slow start.
Bottom line is KAT is playing up to his contract and is our best player. Brunson is our most important one. He is the Maestro. The straw that stirs the drink.
He not only has been integral in KAT's performance, but they are extracting from OG some very good numbers. Playing the 4? seems like a really good fit.
OG in Toronto wanted more offense opportunities. Knicks not only paid him, but also figured a way to best have more output. Same with Precious. He too wanted his bag and the offensive numbers to prove it. He did not. He has a very important role and you get minutes on a Thib team that way. Now, if he can execute when its offered, then he can prove his playmaking.
I said it before but KAT for Randle, DDV and a protected 1st was a steal. Mikal was a bit of an overpay but overall getting those guys on top of OG was amazing.
This was my first reaction to this thread when the news broke, trading both Randle and DDV for him.
Panos 9/27/2024 10:34 PM wrote:Nooooo
In retrospect, KAT is better than I thought, but then not as good as he seemed early on. Both his shooting and drives have come back down to earth, barrelling into defenders for O fouls, and getting his shit blocked on others. Defense is about as bad as we all thought.
He's probably worth the players we traded esp with Randle going to UFA, though (as usual) I'm not thrilled about the salary cap hit. It's been a while since I feel he has carried the team to a victory, and $50M+ players should be able to regularly do that. I'm not sure, but given the choice, I might go back in time and reverse the trade. How do you feel?
Panos wrote:This was my first reaction to this thread when the news broke, trading both Randle and DDV for him.Panos 9/27/2024 10:34 PM wrote:Nooooo
In retrospect, KAT is better than I thought, but then not as good as he seemed early on. Both his shooting and drives have come back down to earth, barrelling into defenders for O fouls, and getting his shit blocked on others. Defense is about as bad as we all thought.
He's probably worth the players we traded esp with Randle going to UFA, though (as usual) I'm not thrilled about the salary cap hit. It's been a while since I feel he has carried the team to a victory, and $50M+ players should be able to regularly do that. I'm not sure, but given the choice, I might go back in time and reverse the trade. How do you feel?
I always thought it was a lateral move, at best. Yes, the starting lineup as a whole is more talented. The fit in terms of coaching style and continuity is off. The depth, which was a big part of last season's success, also took a major hit. But, to be fair, I don't think we'll have a feel for the real impact of the deal until we see what the FO does in the coming off-season.
Panos wrote:This was my first reaction to this thread when the news broke, trading both Randle and DDV for him.Panos 9/27/2024 10:34 PM wrote:Nooooo
In retrospect, KAT is better than I thought, but then not as good as he seemed early on. Both his shooting and drives have come back down to earth, barrelling into defenders for O fouls, and getting his shit blocked on others. Defense is about as bad as we all thought.
He's probably worth the players we traded esp with Randle going to UFA, though (as usual) I'm not thrilled about the salary cap hit. It's been a while since I feel he has carried the team to a victory, and $50M+ players should be able to regularly do that. I'm not sure, but given the choice, I might go back in time and reverse the trade. How do you feel?
I feel good. Also can't reverse the trade even Mentally. The price we paid was more than fair at the time and we no doubt got the best player.
All 50million dollar guys should carry the team but in hindsight looking at the current list of guys making that kind of money its not an absolute given.
on the list in order....
Curry
Jokic
Embiid
Durant
Beal
Jaleyn Brown
Booker
PG13
Towns
Kawahi
Butler
Lillard
Giannis
Lebron
Lavine
Rudy
AD
Trae Young
VanVleet
Markkenen
Haliburton
Siakim
Ant
Kyrie
Sabonis
Ben Simmons
Garland
Ja Morant
Zion
OG
Murray
Ingram
PORTER
SGA
Donovan Mitchel (His extension kicks in next year)
Lamelo
Maxy
Tatum (kicks in next year)
Adebayo
Fox
Bane
In the context of things, who carries teams by himself? SGA will be MVP but his team is very complete.
Curry and Jokic are special, but Curry does not carry the team himself. Remove him and Jokic perhaps you see what Philly has gone thru without embiid who before his decline was the MVP. Hate him or not, he and Jokic were the top big dogs. Lebron despite good stats is not the force of nature he was 10 years ago. Durant and Beal?
Nope. Booker is special, and Jaylen Brown is sort of. PG13 at his age was a big risk. Towns? I think we got a good version of him and while not MVP like, and his defense is suspect, other than Jokic who is better than him? he is second in the league in rebounding. We have mitch on the roster, its was a logical trade.
Kawahi? he has played 32 games this season. Before this season Nalod said OG is Kawhi "lite". OG is closing in on a declining version of Kawhi and OG is imporoving still. I respect Jimmy Butler but he is an asshole. Leaves every team with a bad taste. Lillard is aged out even before his clot. Giannis is special, but Lavine, Rudy, Trae young , VanVleet, Markkennen are not. Solid, but not carry a team. AD at 31 is too injured but a two way player that when healthy is special. Haliburton jury is still out on him in my mind. Siakim? Good player. A that money? Ant? Potential is there and he does carry them often. I believe he is on his way. DM and Maxy are special, as is Tatum. Jah is an idiot.
Thus Towns is a very good player but not MVP material. I see guys making lots of money and many with flaws.
Panos wrote:This was my first reaction to this thread when the news broke, trading both Randle and DDV for him.Panos 9/27/2024 10:34 PM wrote:Nooooo
In retrospect, KAT is better than I thought, but then not as good as he seemed early on. Both his shooting and drives have come back down to earth, barrelling into defenders for O fouls, and getting his shit blocked on others. Defense is about as bad as we all thought.
He's probably worth the players we traded esp with Randle going to UFA, though (as usual) I'm not thrilled about the salary cap hit. It's been a while since I feel he has carried the team to a victory, and $50M+ players should be able to regularly do that. I'm not sure, but given the choice, I might go back in time and reverse the trade. How do you feel?
Let's see what he does in the post season. I thought he was more into the game when he was trying to win fans and Allstar votes. Now, he's settled into the season and has played through some injuries. No excuses come playoff time. I want to see 100% effort.
