Panos wrote:This was my first reaction to this thread when the news broke, trading both Randle and DDV for him.Panos 9/27/2024 10:34 PM wrote:Nooooo
In retrospect, KAT is better than I thought, but then not as good as he seemed early on. Both his shooting and drives have come back down to earth, barrelling into defenders for O fouls, and getting his shit blocked on others. Defense is about as bad as we all thought.
He's probably worth the players we traded esp with Randle going to UFA, though (as usual) I'm not thrilled about the salary cap hit. It's been a while since I feel he has carried the team to a victory, and $50M+ players should be able to regularly do that. I'm not sure, but given the choice, I might go back in time and reverse the trade. How do you feel?
Let's see what he does in the post season. I thought he was more into the game when he was trying to win fans and Allstar votes. Now, he's settled into the season and has played through some injuries. No excuses come playoff time. I want to see 100% effort.
Nalod wrote:Panos wrote:This was my first reaction to this thread when the news broke, trading both Randle and DDV for him.Panos 9/27/2024 10:34 PM wrote:Nooooo
In retrospect, KAT is better than I thought, but then not as good as he seemed early on. Both his shooting and drives have come back down to earth, barrelling into defenders for O fouls, and getting his shit blocked on others. Defense is about as bad as we all thought.
He's probably worth the players we traded esp with Randle going to UFA, though (as usual) I'm not thrilled about the salary cap hit. It's been a while since I feel he has carried the team to a victory, and $50M+ players should be able to regularly do that. I'm not sure, but given the choice, I might go back in time and reverse the trade. How do you feel?
I feel good. Also can't reverse the trade even Mentally. The price we paid was more than fair at the time and we no doubt got the best player.
All 50million dollar guys should carry the team but in hindsight looking at the current list of guys making that kind of money its not an absolute given.
on the list in order....
Curry
Jokic
Embiid
Durant
Beal
Jaleyn Brown
Booker
PG13
Towns
Kawahi
Butler
Lillard
Giannis
Lebron
Lavine
Rudy
AD
Trae Young
VanVleet
Markkenen
Haliburton
Siakim
Ant
Kyrie
Sabonis
Ben Simmons
Garland
Ja Morant
Zion
OG
Murray
Ingram
PORTER
SGA
Donovan Mitchel (His extension kicks in next year)
Lamelo
Maxy
Tatum (kicks in next year)
Adebayo
Fox
Bane
In the context of things, who carries teams by himself? SGA will be MVP but his team is very complete.
Curry and Jokic are special, but Curry does not carry the team himself. Remove him and Jokic perhaps you see what Philly has gone thru without embiid who before his decline was the MVP. Hate him or not, he and Jokic were the top big dogs. Lebron despite good stats is not the force of nature he was 10 years ago. Durant and Beal?
Nope. Booker is special, and Jaylen Brown is sort of. PG13 at his age was a big risk. Towns? I think we got a good version of him and while not MVP like, and his defense is suspect, other than Jokic who is better than him? he is second in the league in rebounding. We have mitch on the roster, its was a logical trade.
Kawahi? he has played 32 games this season. Before this season Nalod said OG is Kawhi "lite". OG is closing in on a declining version of Kawhi and OG is imporoving still. I respect Jimmy Butler but he is an asshole. Leaves every team with a bad taste. Lillard is aged out even before his clot. Giannis is special, but Lavine, Rudy, Trae young , VanVleet, Markkennen are not. Solid, but not carry a team. AD at 31 is too injured but a two way player that when healthy is special. Haliburton jury is still out on him in my mind. Siakim? Good player. A that money? Ant? Potential is there and he does carry them often. I believe he is on his way. DM and Maxy are special, as is Tatum. Jah is an idiot.
Thus Towns is a very good player but not MVP material. I see guys making lots of money and many with flaws.
It's not about someone who can carry the team "by himself" every night. Its about someone who can carry the team on certain nights. Obviously, it is a team sport and other players are involved, not disputing that. But someone who periodically is just overwhelming for the opponent, and puts the team on his back and carries to victory. Brunson does this often.
As for the others on that list, just because some other fools make bad deals, it doesn't mean I want bad deals on my team. Lavine? VanVleet? Did I ever say I wanted him on the Knicks at their cost? Nah, pass. The idea is to be smarter than other teams.
Panos wrote:It's not about someone who can carry the team "by himself" every night. Its about someone who can carry the team on certain nights. Obviously, it is a team sport and other players are involved, not disputing that. But someone who periodically is just overwhelming for the opponent, and puts the team on his back and carries to victory. Brunson does this often.
As for the others on that list, just because some other fools make bad deals, it doesn't mean I want bad deals on my team. Lavine? VanVleet? Did I ever say I wanted him on the Knicks at their cost? Nah, pass. The idea is to be smarter than other teams.
This is a tough one for me. KAT is a top 20 scorer and top 2 rebounder in the league. So nearly every night.
His team is one of the best offensive teams in the league and he is a big part of that along with Brunson. Something KAT is doing is impacting the Knicks in the right way, whether directly or indirectly. KAT is not necessarily a creator for himself alone and the Knicks lack anyone outside of Kolek who does this naturally, while Josh is forced into this role more heavily.
Something is working for him and his impact is felt, maybe just not quantified directly "by himself" every night or whatnot.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/tradit...
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
I hadn't kept up but Knicks are rated 13th defensively, so something has sparked since the Mitch return. Ranked 8th in Net rating.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?dir=A&sort=NET_RATING
I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.
Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. We’re too soft now.
ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. We’re too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions.
The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money 💰
ramtour420 wrote:ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. Were too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions. The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money
Why is it "he sold out for the money" and not "went on to be the final piece to become the best team in the league and probably win a chip?"
Panos wrote:ramtour420 wrote:ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. Were too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions. The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money
Why is it "he sold out for the money" and not "went on to be the final piece to become the best team in the league and probably win a chip?"
Both, really. But the best team in the league could have been us. I don't remember what his name was, it escapes me
ramtour420 wrote:Panos wrote:ramtour420 wrote:ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. Were too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions. The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money
Why is it "he sold out for the money" and not "went on to be the final piece to become the best team in the league and probably win a chip?"
Both, really. But the best team in the league could have been us. I don't remember what his name was, it escapes me
Randle and that other guy were my two favorite players. Since I don't see us competing this year, I am rooting for the Wolves and OKC.
The Wolves first, because Randle fixed the Knicks. And OKC second, because f*** OKC. F***ers. But if the German guy wins I'm sort of okay with that.
ToddTT wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Panos wrote:ramtour420 wrote:ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. Were too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions. The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money
Why is it "he sold out for the money" and not "went on to be the final piece to become the best team in the league and probably win a chip?"
Both, really. But the best team in the league could have been us. I don't remember what his name was, it escapes me
Randle and that other guy were my two favorite players. Since I don't see us competing this year, I am rooting for the Wolves and OKC.The Wolves first, because Randle fixed the Knicks. And OKC second, because f*** OKC. F***ers. But if the German guy wins I'm sort of okay with that.
That German guy was tough. Played with heart.
Scored very little, if we're honest.
Panos wrote:ToddTT wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Panos wrote:ramtour420 wrote:ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. Were too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions. The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money
Why is it "he sold out for the money" and not "went on to be the final piece to become the best team in the league and probably win a chip?"
Both, really. But the best team in the league could have been us. I don't remember what his name was, it escapes me
Randle and that other guy were my two favorite players. Since I don't see us competing this year, I am rooting for the Wolves and OKC.The Wolves first, because Randle fixed the Knicks. And OKC second, because f*** OKC. F***ers. But if the German guy wins I'm sort of okay with that.
That German guy was tough. Played with heart.
Scored very little, if we're honest.
He was a facilitator. Made everyone else a little better.
Scored when he needed to. That floater was MONEY. Ask your mama if he could score. Okay, we're old... ask your sister. 
ToddTT wrote:Panos wrote:ToddTT wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Panos wrote:ramtour420 wrote:ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. Were too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions. The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money
Why is it "he sold out for the money" and not "went on to be the final piece to become the best team in the league and probably win a chip?"
Both, really. But the best team in the league could have been us. I don't remember what his name was, it escapes me
Randle and that other guy were my two favorite players. Since I don't see us competing this year, I am rooting for the Wolves and OKC.The Wolves first, because Randle fixed the Knicks. And OKC second, because f*** OKC. F***ers. But if the German guy wins I'm sort of okay with that.
That German guy was tough. Played with heart.
Scored very little, if we're honest.
He was a facilitator. Made everyone else a little better.Scored when he needed to. That floater was MONEY. Ask your mama if he could score. Okay, we're old... ask your sister.
I asked my sister. Said he didn't score.
Panos wrote:ToddTT wrote:Panos wrote:ToddTT wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Panos wrote:ramtour420 wrote:ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. Were too soft now.
You keep saying this but I don't think you are being objective. We got soft not because of the trade man.Comeon. I know you are better than that. KAT is a better rebounder, scorer and passer than Randle ever will be. On D they are both terrible,fking turnstiles, David " jazz hands" Lee clones. Randle gave up on plays and was even worse complaining to Refs, not running back. Made me want to puke. Good riddance. Very one dimensional passer too, but he didn't require plays. Just dribble into a triple team and pass out. Towns needs plays, cutters, like the best big man passers, like Jokic. This is on Thibs. Mikal is a better defender than Divo. Better scorer, more dimensions. The reason we got soft was because we lost that German center, I cannot remember his name. The one who sold out for the money
Why is it "he sold out for the money" and not "went on to be the final piece to become the best team in the league and probably win a chip?"
Both, really. But the best team in the league could have been us. I don't remember what his name was, it escapes me
Randle and that other guy were my two favorite players. Since I don't see us competing this year, I am rooting for the Wolves and OKC.The Wolves first, because Randle fixed the Knicks. And OKC second, because f*** OKC. F***ers. But if the German guy wins I'm sort of okay with that.
That German guy was tough. Played with heart.
Scored very little, if we're honest.
He was a facilitator. Made everyone else a little better.Scored when he needed to. That floater was MONEY. Ask your mama if he could score. Okay, we're old... ask your sister.
I asked my sister. Said he didn't score.
Hmmm. Well in that case, OKC overpaid. What a bunch of losers!
ToddTT wrote:I have way more expectations for the Wolves postseason than the Knicks.Also, the Wolves are like 21-3 in the last 24 games where Julius has played.
I still hate the trade, obviously. We’re too soft now.
So you clearly know more than Leon and Thibs? Why are you here and not signing a multi year contract with another team. Leon orchestrated this trade to make us better. Randle had his chance now its towns turn. Along with all the players Leon added like OG and Mikal. They had a plan that did not involve Randle.
Good luck and hope he continues to have a solid career but we all about dem Knicks on this site. Randle fans can grab a tissue and complain all they want. With Towns, OG, JB, Mikal we are a top 5 team in the nba. Love it. Now it’s playoffs = money time.
This one is incomplete for now.
KAT has elite offensive skills but he doesn’t help us beat Boston or Cleveland the defense is atrocious.
DDV and Julius were tough dudes and it was a lot of playmaking lost and the west is deep down to 12 teams, so can’t really compare records right now.
If Julius shows up in the playoff for Minny (huge if) hard to say advantage Knicks, with a pick and DDV out in the move.
We will see
I really had hoped Randle would have stayed healthy and perhaps been able to justify the likely big contract he wants. I really appreciated his ascent as a knick and save a few diva moments has been a great contributor. The injuries were unfortunate.
I think next to Rudy and with that big lineup they can throw at Wolves made a very good trade getting him and DDV.
Not everything is plug and play and Towns has been great hear. Mostly healthy, other than his defensive issues which was predictable he in my opinion statistically as good a year as he has ever had. Highs in Rebounding, 3p attempts and %. With Mitch in the mix it will be interesting how things come together if in fact can.
I loved the streak of games last year when OG and Randle played together with iHart and I understand it appears that would is the high water mark. But DDV does not do what he does if Randle was healthy all year long, nor if Brunson did not fall apart in the playoffs. I don' know the outcome but context has details.
It should be noted that iHart simply outperformed his contract ceiling which in part is the fault of Thibs for taking his career to new heights!
Bottom line in my opinion is Towns regular season has lived up to my expectations as a starter for the knicks. While I had hoped our record might be mid 50's the reality is one does not get the best of both Bridges at one time. You don't get Peak Nets scorer or peak Suns glue guy. We got sort of both but its been inconsistent. You also get OG as perhaps his "best version" as we approach playoffs.
Chemistry is the sum of the pieces being greater than its parts. We have great parts and perhaps chemistry takes more than one season.
This team has another gear on which should have put it more challenging to the elite but thats on paper and in the fans expectations.
But.........Im sort of guessing Deuce is being held out to get him ready for a playoff run. I'm ok with Jalen getting his 4 more games in to get all NBA accolades. Needs to play 15-20 minutes to get it. Better do it now and perhaps rest him again if he aggravates the ankle.
I don't know if Indy has ambitions to over take us with a 3 game lead and own the tiebreaker its not imperative we go all out either. Even without Durant I see Suns making a go of it today as they are but 2 games out of play in but expect Thibs to protect his roster if possible. Pistons will be playing for home court but none of the other games vs. Boston or Clev should have any ramifications other than pride.
They too might rest up their players thus preventing us from making a "Statement" should we win.
Thibs will be thibs
Rookie wrote:Panos wrote:This was my first reaction to this thread when the news broke, trading both Randle and DDV for him.Panos 9/27/2024 10:34 PM wrote:Nooooo
In retrospect, KAT is better than I thought, but then not as good as he seemed early on. Both his shooting and drives have come back down to earth, barrelling into defenders for O fouls, and getting his shit blocked on others. Defense is about as bad as we all thought.
He's probably worth the players we traded esp with Randle going to UFA, though (as usual) I'm not thrilled about the salary cap hit. It's been a while since I feel he has carried the team to a victory, and $50M+ players should be able to regularly do that. I'm not sure, but given the choice, I might go back in time and reverse the trade. How do you feel?
Let's see what he does in the post season. I thought he was more into the game when he was trying to win fans and Allstar votes. Now, he's settled into the season and has played through some injuries. No excuses come playoff time. I want to see 100% effort.
reasonable statement. Factor in Jules as a potential unrestricted FA and costs to lock him up matters.
Recall his defense was often spotty?
Why is it unreasonable to give towns props for regular season? No need to compare records as teams don't play in same division and each its own factors.
If we kept Jules, who plays center until Mitch came back? If so, would we be 3rd seed?
part of the KAT trade was the commitment to OG. He's a 4 and we had issues at center after losing IHart.
Deal might have been a push but a huge part is simply replacing IHart and moving OG to the 4 which is the best fit for him physically.
It may be weird to say this about your $50M all NBA center, but I think Towns is the X factor in these coming playoffs.
If the Knicks are to advance, he needs to be the player he was in the first 20 games of the season: Taking a good amount of 3's and hitting at a high rate, *controlled* drives to the basket without offensive fouls, good passes to teammates, and maybe block a shot every game. I feel Brunson will be Brunson, and he'll bring it. We need Towns to do the same. After that Bridges/OG need to be more present than invisible, but I think the biggest key to wins is Towns. Fingers crossed.
Panos wrote:It may be weird to say this about your $50M all NBA center, but I think Towns is the X factor in these coming playoffs.
If the Knicks are to advance, he needs to be the player he was in the first 20 games of the season: Taking a good amount of 3's and hitting at a high rate, *controlled* drives to the basket without offensive fouls, good passes to teammates, and maybe block a shot every game. I feel Brunson will be Brunson, and he'll bring it. We need Towns to do the same. After that Bridges/OG need to be more present than invisible, but I think the biggest key to wins is Towns. Fingers crossed.
I think this is spot on. It's like a waterfall effect for the team. If KAT is grooving, it'll make everyone else's life much easier.
Pessimistically optimistic headed into playoffs as Thibs needs to at least get to the 2nd round... Towns should dominate but Stewart is more of a Knick than Towns...and we can't deny Thibs is a defensive coach trying to make an offensive center rim protect enough to get by...think he will revert back to Mitch much in the 4th quarter and let's hope Mitch can stay healthy enough! For me I will never have the confidence that Towns is tough/consistent enough to sustain the defense needed for Thib's rim protecting needs to flourish. So if it doesn't work this playoffs I think Leon needs to either move Towns or Thibs to fully maximize the defensive approach/identity we watched last season.
martin wrote:Panos wrote:It may be weird to say this about your $50M all NBA center, but I think Towns is the X factor in these coming playoffs.
If the Knicks are to advance, he needs to be the player he was in the first 20 games of the season: Taking a good amount of 3's and hitting at a high rate, *controlled* drives to the basket without offensive fouls, good passes to teammates, and maybe block a shot every game. I feel Brunson will be Brunson, and he'll bring it. We need Towns to do the same. After that Bridges/OG need to be more present than invisible, but I think the biggest key to wins is Towns. Fingers crossed.
I think this is spot on. It's like a waterfall effect for the team. If KAT is grooving, it'll make everyone else's life much easier.
And not for nothing, but for me, KAT has wildly under performed this year. Not stats wise, he good on the counting stuff.
But he is not a leader, makes too many silly fouls, does not work hard or smart enough on defense, is not spacing properly, sets awful picks, and complains way too much.
All very fixable by 1 person. Look within KAT.
