Clean wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
Kats contribution vs the Celtics will not be raw stats. It will be spreading the defense. Remember the zones teams run on us? Yea, that is a thing of the past.
I don't know if it makes much of a difference. They can just stick Horford on KAT without fear of anyone punishing him off the dribble. There's a reason Julius played well against them. He can exploit all sorts of big/small mismatches.
Knicksfan wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:This guy is a reporter, but I'm not sure how credible his sources are. But, it might explain some things.
Won’t lie: when I saw the other post hinting at a Knicks player wanting out, I didn’t think it was Randle, but actually DDV.
Makes sense, though: yeah, the Nova Knicks are a cool thing, but for DDV, he finally gets a chance to shine in prime time as a starting SG and you trade for one that will definitely take from your playing time and will move you back to the bench. This was probably a time bomb waiting to blow up during the season, so it makes sense to act.
Still, hurts though.
Yeah. We traded two quality players on good contracts, though that was about end for Randle's, for a guy you could argue is overpaid. I'd say KAT is probably properly paid now the way things are going with cap increases.
KAT is coming home！ Since he was a kid he wanted to play for the Knicks. He's going to be happy for the first time in his career AND he gets to be a second banana. This is like when KD went to the Warriors. He will be a super overqualified second banana. I think the Knicks prefer paying KAT 60m to paying Randle 50m. DDV is way overqualified to be coming off the bench. This will give him a huge runaway to sign one more big money deal, am option that just wouldn't happen. Once again, Leon makes a trade which helps everyone get more money.
The biggest issue with Jules was that teams could sag off him and clog the lane. Randle never was a catch and shoot guy. KAT is comfortable shooting 10 3's a game. This trade is a huge win for both teams. Hopefully we will be able to judge the winner when they meet in the Finals.
Where’s the TRADE RANDLE THREAD when you need it.
Thumbs down Randle is gone.
DDV will be missed. But there was no minutes for him.
It’s not about who we lost, but what opportunities did we create with existing players?
With DDV the DEUCE was buried. Now the DEUCE IS LOOSE.
JB will go but this year with the paint being wide open now.
More pros than cons with this trade.
We won’t see this until January but JB, Mikal, OG, KAT and Mitch is a solid starting 5.
tomlin8 wrote:technomaster wrote:I like this trade. Sure, it hurts to lose Randle and DiVincenzo, but I think it reshapes our roster in mostly positive ways.Towns: On offense, he does everything Hartenstein did - and better almost across the board. He does a great job as a high post distributor and allows us to continue that fluid style of play. He's also a legit 3pt shooter (39.8% for his career!) and give us a 3pt shooting center for the first time in Knicks history.
On defense, while he's not an elite shot blocking threat, he's a 7 footer and gives us a LOT more length than Randle would as a fill-in center. And his team tends to play better with him on the floor. His +/- was a whopping +321 last season, with a PER of 23.8. Wow.
So now some rationalizations:
* We badly needed a proven starting center. Mitch won't be in true game shape until after the all star break, and recent whispers said that Randle wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season, so we were getting into risky territory. Coupled with the fact that both of those players were unavailable for much of the 2nd of the season and playoffs with their annual late season injuries, it's quite frankly good business to plug in this hole on an otherwise championship-quality roster
* We needed to balance the logjam at swingman. The Bridges trade, while quite excellent, set us up with a messy log jam of swingman-sized talent, with Hart and DiVincenzo likely playing reserve minutes in spite of their starter-quality talent. They certain proved their capabilities during the playoffs, showing off what they could do when given 40mpg! Then there's the emerging McBride and highly touted rookie Kolek, both of whom looked slated for borderline garbage time/change of pace roles. DiVincenzo opens up 20-25 mins of playing time. Let's just say that we had too much of a luxury of talent off the bench, and we've traded that for a starter.
* When healthy, we'll be a match up nightmare - With KAT as our starter, I anticipate a healthy starting lineup including KAT/Hart/OG/Bridges/Brunson, and Mitch moving to the bench. This gives us a mix of shooters, defenders, fundamental ball movers, cutters, and passers in our best lineup. We also have the option to play 2 7 footers at the same time.
nice post :)
Agree. But I see a huge part of this trade in not being able to sign Randle to the contract he wants and if the rumur of DDV wanting out are true it is two birds with one stone. I am not a KAT fan but he does bring versatility, and outside shooting and we saw last year what the Knicks could do with a spread out offense through Brunson and no "bruiser" offensive player.
I love the cut of Randle's jib but I HATED the fact that they had to worry about his mental so much. Makes the Knicks much more versaile.
Now if we could just trade Mitch.......
as a side note, anytime there's a trade between teams for actual players rather than salary cap shenanigans or to jet fuel a tank- it's a win for the league.
Wow, didnt see this coming before the season started. I was against bringing KAT to NY because of his D, and because he doesnt drive like he used to when he was a younger player. KAT defending some of the best bigs in the league is a concern. Would be something other contenders would exploit.
If Randle and DDV wanted out, then a trade might have been a good idea. But KAT? Minny wasnt happy with KAT's performance in the conference Finals I guess.
Thibs likes leaning on his starters minuteswise, so trading DDV might have been done to prevent future drama. I was open to trading Randle, but he was a more complete player on offense, and gave more on D than KAT.
I understand the reasons for moving DDV and Randle, but Im surprised the FO thought this was the best we could do.
Thibs is said to have veto power over trades. Ive read that he has a big say in roster moves, so this one surprises me.
Cool. Randle and iHart were possibly my two favorite players.
And Donte was a quintessential Knick, IMO.
wow
I would've never tried 'this' as un the whole offseason
Please forgot the each move or whatever
You really can't argue that our starting lineup is better than it was at any point last year
McBride also deserves to be in the rotation. I think Precious too
I like that there minutes are more readily able to be distributed between our rotation. I also like that we have a 'fuck you' matchup piece for KP and Turner, and a guy that should be able to hold his own against embiid.
Wow. I hate this trade but I understand the logic. DDV was too good to be on the bench and probably was unhappy about the team structure. You have two guys in Kolek and McBride that you want to give minutes too. Mitch is hurt, so we needed a starting center, and Randle was always one bad episode from losing control. That all being said, Randle is a dog and the Knicks were playing the best basketball they played in the past ten years right before he got hurt. KAT has always seemed soft and he did not play all that great in the playoffs last year. The Knicks must really believe in McBride and Kolek to make this trade.
EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson / Payne / Kolek
Hart / McBride / Shamet
Bridges / KBD / Dadiet
OG / Achiuwa / Morris
Towns / Sims / [Robinson]
Me personally I would start Achiuwa keeping OG & Bridges at the 2 & 3. With a rotation of OG sliding to the 4 with the 2nd unit of Mcbride & Hart.
KAT is simply better and more versatile, we can still go big with Mitch at C. this is a shocker though and of course out of nowhere. I could never trust Randle in playoffs so this is understandable. Having a 5 that Bruson can run P&R with and space the floor out 25 feet + is going to be huge. Losing DDV sucks though but if he was unhappy, and if we have MIkal and KAT to makeup for his shooting, and Deuce ready to take a bigger role, then its worth it.
Feels like the OG thread all over again. And the Bridges trade. This office is picking up elite players that fill very specific needs in a lineup that they have pretty much broadcasted they were doing with their moves. The cost has been more than I hoped, but that lineup is among the best I have ever seen constructed. Every team has health risk. But holy cow, you have literally everything you want (except nostalgia) in Brunson/Hart/Bridges/OG/KAT.
1) Brunson. Team identity is sealed as Brunson’s team on contracts that are here for at least 2 more years.
2) Hart triple doubled in Randle’s absence regularly. His passing, defense and rebounding fits perfectly into this lineup. In my “Dray” scenario, Hart is the willing participant.
3) Bridges brings pretty much everything DDV did (maybe a little less scrappiness) with playmaking and a 7 foot wingspan.
4) OG was amazing. He will get injured with his style of play, but man, he still has upside.
5) KAT and Randle feel similar to people who don’t want to see the differences. You still will have a bit of the turnover prone action from KAT when trying to force a play, but you get a player at C that has positional size (7’4 wingspan), elite three point shooting that can take defenders out to 27’ like Zinger. His defense is actually net positive - go look. Another hometown kid. This is constructed almost perfectly to slot him in at the 5.
The Knicks literally bought the best available +/-, eFG, positional size and wingspan this summer at the cost of not waiting and seeing if the team could replicate January.
Payne/Kolek. Payne is like Elf if Elf could shoot. Understated pickup. Really solid playmaker. Kolek will have to earn his minutes by outplaying this guy.
Deuce/Shamet. His minutes become more secure. McBride ends up being our 6MOY entry.
KBD/Dadiet. KBD is well overlooked. Guy is fundamentally sound. Good positional size. Plug and play in a Taj manner. Dadiet is the future. Rumors are he is still growing.
Achiuwa/Morris. I mean, we know these guys. Let’s work on having enforcers around to protect our lil guys.
Robinson/Sims. I always thought KAT would cost MitchBeast. To still be able to bring Mitch in to face the Embiids of the world is amazing.
This team has so much symmetry. You have Huk and McCullar waiting in the wings with stark similarities to Robinson and Hart.
It’s just an amazingly constructed team.
newyorknewyork wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson / Payne / Kolek
Hart / McBride / Shamet
Bridges / KBD / Dadiet
OG / Achiuwa / Morris
Towns / Sims / [Robinson]
Me personally I would start Achiuwa keeping OG & Bridges at the 2 & 3. With a rotation of OG sliding to the 4 with the 2nd unit of Mcbride & Hart.
thats not a bad idea, Precious can move all over on D and also provide more rim protection. We have alot of options for sure.
Knicksfan wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:This guy is a reporter, but I'm not sure how credible his sources are. But, it might explain some things.
Won’t lie: when I saw the other post hinting at a Knicks player wanting out, I didn’t think it was Randle, but actually DDV.
Makes sense, though: yeah, the Nova Knicks are a cool thing, but for DDV, he finally gets a chance to shine in prime time as a starting SG and you trade for one that will definitely take from your playing time and will move you back to the bench. This was probably a time bomb waiting to blow up during the season, so it makes sense to act.
Still, hurts though.
Guessing the player who wanted out. DDV makes more sense than Randle I agree.
nycericanguy wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson / Payne / Kolek
Hart / McBride / Shamet
Bridges / KBD / Dadiet
OG / Achiuwa / Morris
Towns / Sims / [Robinson]
Me personally I would start Achiuwa keeping OG & Bridges at the 2 & 3. With a rotation of OG sliding to the 4 with the 2nd unit of Mcbride & Hart.
thats not a bad idea, Precious can move all over on D and also provide more rim protection. We have alot of options for sure.
Is Mitch in brackets because he might be outgoing as well?
Or because there's no telling if he'll ever be healthy enough to play significant minutes again?
ToddTT wrote:nycericanguy wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson / Payne / Kolek
Hart / McBride / Shamet
Bridges / KBD / Dadiet
OG / Achiuwa / Morris
Towns / Sims / [Robinson]
Me personally I would start Achiuwa keeping OG & Bridges at the 2 & 3. With a rotation of OG sliding to the 4 with the 2nd unit of Mcbride & Hart.
thats not a bad idea, Precious can move all over on D and also provide more rim protection. We have alot of options for sure.
Is Mitch in brackets because he might be outgoing as well?
Or because there's no telling if he'll ever be healthy enough to play significant minutes again?
we need MItch more than ever IMO, plenty of minutes for him because KAT can play the 4 as well. Mitch can backup C for 15mpg and you can play them together for another 10-15mpg
EwingsGlass wrote:Feels like the OG thread all over again. And the Bridges trade. This office is picking up elite players that fill very specific needs in a lineup that they have pretty much broadcasted they were doing with their moves. The cost has been more than I hoped, but that lineup is among the best I have ever seen constructed. Every team has health risk. But holy cow, you have literally everything you want (except nostalgia) in Brunson/Hart/Bridges/OG/KAT. 1) Brunson. Team identity is sealed as Brunson’s team on contracts that are here for at least 2 more years.
2) Hart triple doubled in Randle’s absence regularly. His passing, defense and rebounding fits perfectly into this lineup. In my “Dray” scenario, Hart is the willing participant.
3) Bridges brings pretty much everything DDV did (maybe a little less scrappiness) with playmaking and a 7 foot wingspan.
4) OG was amazing. He will get injured with his style of play, but man, he still has upside.
5) KAT and Randle feel similar to people who don’t want to see the differences. You still will have a bit of the turnover prone action from KAT when trying to force a play, but you get a player at C that has positional size (7’4 wingspan), elite three point shooting that can take defenders out to 27’ like Zinger. His defense is actually net positive - go look. Another hometown kid. This is constructed almost perfectly to slot him in at the 5.
The Knicks literally bought the best available +/-, eFG, positional size and wingspan this summer at the cost of not waiting and seeing if the team could replicate January.
Payne/Kolek. Payne is like Elf if Elf could shoot. Understated pickup. Really solid playmaker. Kolek will have to earn his minutes by outplaying this guy.
Deuce/Shamet. His minutes become more secure. McBride ends up being our 6MOY entry.
KBD/Dadiet. KBD is well overlooked. Guy is fundamentally sound. Good positional size. Plug and play in a Taj manner. Dadiet is the future. Rumors are he is still growing.
Achiuwa/Morris. I mean, we know these guys. Let’s work on having enforcers around to protect our lil guys.
Robinson/Sims. I always thought KAT would cost MitchBeast. To still be able to bring Mitch in to face the Embiids of the world is amazing.
This team has so much symmetry. You have Huk and McCullar waiting in the wings with stark similarities to Robinson and Hart.
It’s just an amazingly constructed team.
Seems like KBD might be included in the deal. That might mean Okeke will have to step up? Or is any other savvy minimum deal possible?
Kat shoots 40% from 3. Which is a wild difference to the shooting that we have had from out big men since trading KP.
IHart opened up the offense at the high post with passing and a floater. Kat in this similar role, but a 20pt 40% three pt shooter 80% from FT!!
Defensively he isn't elite, but he holds positive defensive analytics. Last season 109 DTRTG, 3.6 DWS, 0.9 BPM.
Not to mention surrounded by quality defenders: Precious, OG, Bridges, Mcbride, Hart, Mitch.
nycericanguy wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson / Payne / Kolek
Hart / McBride / Shamet
Bridges / KBD / Dadiet
OG / Achiuwa / Morris
Towns / Sims / [Robinson]
Me personally I would start Achiuwa keeping OG & Bridges at the 2 & 3. With a rotation of OG sliding to the 4 with the 2nd unit of Mcbride & Hart.
thats not a bad idea, Precious can move all over on D and also provide more rim protection. We have alot of options for sure.
Precious and Kat compliment each other very well on paper.
nycericanguy wrote:ToddTT wrote:nycericanguy wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson / Payne / Kolek
Hart / McBride / Shamet
Bridges / KBD / Dadiet
OG / Achiuwa / Morris
Towns / Sims / [Robinson]
Me personally I would start Achiuwa keeping OG & Bridges at the 2 & 3. With a rotation of OG sliding to the 4 with the 2nd unit of Mcbride & Hart.
thats not a bad idea, Precious can move all over on D and also provide more rim protection. We have alot of options for sure.
Is Mitch in brackets because he might be outgoing as well?
Or because there's no telling if he'll ever be healthy enough to play significant minutes again?
we need MItch more than ever IMO, plenty of minutes for him because KAT can play the 4 as well. Mitch can backup C for 15mpg and you can play them together for another 10-15mpg
If this is true, we are a house of cards.
