I miss the WOJ bomb? This just doesn’t feel right without that
Maybe this is just pr cleanup too, who knows
Clean wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
Kats contribution vs the Celtics will not be raw stats. It will be spreading the defense. Remember the zones teams run on us? Yea, that is a thing of the past.
This. It’s amazing how last 3 months we’ve heard non stop crying over losing Hart’s offensive ability at Center. Now we have a Center who is a legit scorer both in the paint and beyond 3 but oh wait we just lost a backup shooting guard
martin wrote:
Holy wow. Not a lot of love for Randle there. Also confirming Randle wanted a max deal. Assuming that was max dollars and years.
blkexec wrote:Where’s the TRADE RANDLE THREAD when you need it.
Thumbs down Randle is gone.
DDV will be missed. But there was no minutes for him.
It’s not about who we lost, but what opportunities did we create with existing players?
With DDV the DEUCE was buried. Now the DEUCE IS LOOSE.JB will go but this year with the paint being wide open now.
More pros than cons with this trade.
We won’t see this until January but JB, Mikal, OG, KAT and Mitch is a solid starting 5.
When OG is inevitably injured play KAT at PF and Sims at C.
DLeethal wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:technomaster wrote:I like this trade. Sure, it hurts to lose Randle and DiVincenzo, but I think it reshapes our roster in mostly positive ways.Towns: On offense, he does everything Hartenstein did - and better almost across the board. He does a great job as a high post distributor and allows us to continue that fluid style of play. He's also a legit 3pt shooter (39.8% for his career!) and give us a 3pt shooting center for the first time in Knicks history.
On defense, while he's not an elite shot blocking threat, he's a 7 footer and gives us a LOT more length than Randle would as a fill-in center. And his team tends to play better with him on the floor. His +/- was a whopping +321 last season, with a PER of 23.8. Wow.
So now some rationalizations:
* We badly needed a proven starting center. Mitch won't be in true game shape until after the all star break, and recent whispers said that Randle wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season, so we were getting into risky territory. Coupled with the fact that both of those players were unavailable for much of the 2nd of the season and playoffs with their annual late season injuries, it's quite frankly good business to plug in this hole on an otherwise championship-quality roster
* We needed to balance the logjam at swingman. The Bridges trade, while quite excellent, set us up with a messy log jam of swingman-sized talent, with Hart and DiVincenzo likely playing reserve minutes in spite of their starter-quality talent. They certain proved their capabilities during the playoffs, showing off what they could do when given 40mpg! Then there's the emerging McBride and highly touted rookie Kolek, both of whom looked slated for borderline garbage time/change of pace roles. DiVincenzo opens up 20-25 mins of playing time. Let's just say that we had too much of a luxury of talent off the bench, and we've traded that for a starter.
* When healthy, we'll be a match up nightmare - With KAT as our starter, I anticipate a healthy starting lineup including KAT/Hart/OG/Bridges/Brunson, and Mitch moving to the bench. This gives us a mix of shooters, defenders, fundamental ball movers, cutters, and passers in our best lineup. We also have the option to play 2 7 footers at the same time.
My main thing is that Wolves teams with KAT as the starting center have been bad defensively. How bad? They mortgaged their future for Gobert. So I don't see the idea of playing KAT at center as positive. The team lost depth and Thibs has somethings to figure out defensively. Towns is a great shooter. But I feel it won't make up for the loss of Randle's inside physicality and Donte's prolific three points shooting. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.
This!
My main issue with KAT. He is not a dog. Does not like the lights.
JB is a dog.
Josh is a dog.
Randle is a dog.
Donte is a dog.
Minny had two Max in KATS and Rudy and with AE ( a top 3 in NBA) they were still short.
Watching KAT for years and can’t wait to see the reaction of the many soft missed threes from your Center position.
Maybe NY changes him and being at the Center position gets him back around the basket.
Do agree that before Gobert he was different.
Trust in Leon!
This is our chip team.
It’s do or die. Cuz no one is taking OGs and KATs contract if we don’t or they get hurt again.
I think we got KAT because we want 3s from the Center position not to try and get him to be a post player lol. That said he can score from anywhere and is the best scorer at his position in the league.
Saying KAT doesn't like the lights isn't all the way true. KAT had a great series against the defending Champs in the 2nd round of the playoffs. That series by KAT was leaps and bounds better than anything we saw from Randle in the playoffs...
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:The signals towards this trade were pretty obvious. Stockpiling backup guards, Morris pickup, leaving C position open, no Randle extension etc.Will be interesting to see how this team operates with a sniper at C. Also we have the defensive wing power to offset any lack of anchorship from Towns. This team can be a top 5 on D and top 5 on O kind of team IMO. Can’t underestimate two DPOY caliber wings on the same team.
Towns proved last year he can be an elite #2 next to an alpha guard. He also proved he can contribute on the #1 overall defense. He shed his “losing player” label and made a deep playoff run through a brutal West.
We seem a little thin now though. I wonder if we start Precious and bring Hart off the bench. But this settles all of the lingering lineup/rotation questions. Opens lanes for Dadiet and Kolek and also Deuce. And gives Brunson more space than he’s ever had before.
I’ve seen this likened to Celtics trading Smart for Porzingis. A gut punch trading the heart and soul of their team but a necessary move to give them a championship level offense.
We are also built slightly better for Towns than Minny was. Combination of Brunson, Mikal, OG, Hart, Deuce, Mitch, Precious is better fit than that Conley, Ant, Mcdaniels, Rudy, Reid, Walker, Anderson. Stronger overall at the G position to feed and feed off of KAT than the overlap at the 4/5 that Minny held.
newyorknewyork wrote:Kat shoots 40% from 3. Which is a wild difference to the shooting that we have had from out big men since trading KP. IHart opened up the offense at the high post with passing and a floater. Kat in this similar role, but a 20pt 40% three pt shooter 80% from FT!!
Defensively he isn't elite, but he holds positive defensive analytics. Last season 109 DTRTG, 3.6 DWS, 0.9 BPM.
Not to mention surrounded by quality defenders: Precious, OG, Bridges, Mcbride, Hart, Mitch.
It is amazing how people are talking about KAT defensively like he’s Eddy Curry.
martin wrote:Leon did not like the Randle negotiations
Randle, coming off the worst injury of his career, wanted a new contract and he’s about to turn 30.
nycericanguy wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:technomaster wrote:I like this trade. Sure, it hurts to lose Randle and DiVincenzo, but I think it reshapes our roster in mostly positive ways.Towns: On offense, he does everything Hartenstein did - and better almost across the board. He does a great job as a high post distributor and allows us to continue that fluid style of play. He's also a legit 3pt shooter (39.8% for his career!) and give us a 3pt shooting center for the first time in Knicks history.
On defense, while he's not an elite shot blocking threat, he's a 7 footer and gives us a LOT more length than Randle would as a fill-in center. And his team tends to play better with him on the floor. His +/- was a whopping +321 last season, with a PER of 23.8. Wow.
So now some rationalizations:
* We badly needed a proven starting center. Mitch won't be in true game shape until after the all star break, and recent whispers said that Randle wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season, so we were getting into risky territory. Coupled with the fact that both of those players were unavailable for much of the 2nd of the season and playoffs with their annual late season injuries, it's quite frankly good business to plug in this hole on an otherwise championship-quality roster
* We needed to balance the logjam at swingman. The Bridges trade, while quite excellent, set us up with a messy log jam of swingman-sized talent, with Hart and DiVincenzo likely playing reserve minutes in spite of their starter-quality talent. They certain proved their capabilities during the playoffs, showing off what they could do when given 40mpg! Then there's the emerging McBride and highly touted rookie Kolek, both of whom looked slated for borderline garbage time/change of pace roles. DiVincenzo opens up 20-25 mins of playing time. Let's just say that we had too much of a luxury of talent off the bench, and we've traded that for a starter.
* When healthy, we'll be a match up nightmare - With KAT as our starter, I anticipate a healthy starting lineup including KAT/Hart/OG/Bridges/Brunson, and Mitch moving to the bench. This gives us a mix of shooters, defenders, fundamental ball movers, cutters, and passers in our best lineup. We also have the option to play 2 7 footers at the same time.
My main thing is that Wolves teams with KAT as the starting center have been bad defensively. How bad? They mortgaged their future for Gobert. So I don't see the idea of playing KAT at center as positive. The team lost depth and Thibs has somethings to figure out defensively. Towns is a great shooter. But I feel it won't make up for the loss of Randle's inside physicality and Donte's prolific three points shooting. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.
This!
My main issue with KAT. He is not a dog. Does not like the lights.
JB is a dog.
Josh is a dog.
Randle is a dog.
Donte is a dog.
Minny had two Max in KATS and Rudy and with AE ( a top 3 in NBA) they were still short.
Watching KAT for years and can’t wait to see the reaction of the many soft missed threes from your Center position.
Maybe NY changes him and being at the Center position gets him back around the basket.
Do agree that before Gobert he was different.
Trust in Leon!
This is our chip team.
It’s do or die. Cuz no one is taking OGs and KATs contract if we don’t or they get hurt again.
Randle liked the lights? Sorry but dude shrunk in the playoffs more than any star I've ever seen. And not just playing poorly, but full out tantrums.
One good playoff game in 5 years here
Landry Shamet has to fill the Divencino role as a 3 pt sniper.
I’m throwing my hat into the Precious starts ring
martin wrote:Maybe this is just pr cleanup too, who knows
I was thinking earlier that soon we will get the leaks about how NYK wanted no part of trading DDV and eventually caved
JesseDark wrote:Landry Shamet has to fill the Divencino role as a 3 pt sniper.
People need to realize we added a volume 3 point sniper … best shooter in the trade … at the C position. We didn’t lose shooting this offseason we gained it.
martin wrote:I’m throwing my hat into the Precious starts ring
I’m not there yet but we kind of need Hart as a supersub / finisher more than starter.
Kolek - Deuce - Shamet/Morris - Mitch/Precious is a weak bench
The Knicks had a small window to pull this trade off: after this ceremony and before Monday training camp.
KAT got weekend to pack.
This was 3 days ago
ToddTT wrote:ToddTT wrote:Trade Randle! Da bum!!!
It was sarcasm, Leon.
Lets not forget there were times in the playoffs that DDV was benched late in games for Deuce. Deuce's 3pt shooting AND defense were elite.
