Knicks · Leon Rose - best NY Knick GM of all time (page 3)
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:When is the best GM of all time going to bring in decent bench players?I like our bench, actually. We just started playing them a week ago it seems. Starters playing 48 mins a game to start the season definitely kick started their chemistry, so bench never had a chance to gel. They have time to do so for the playoffs. OG's injury will speed up that process
Shamet has to go
why? We upped his minutes and we won 5 in a row.
You have a suitable replacement or just a child like concept of one?
He’s had his O-face on for as long as I can remember. 0-4. 0-1. 0-2. 0-1.
It’s easy to give Phil snarky responses for his quips. But he’s not wrong. Not a lot of value for a 3pt sniper that can’t snipe.
We don’t really have salary for a replacement in a waive situation. But Inwould include him as salary dump anywhere I could.
EwingsGlass wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:When is the best GM of all time going to bring in decent bench players?I like our bench, actually. We just started playing them a week ago it seems. Starters playing 48 mins a game to start the season definitely kick started their chemistry, so bench never had a chance to gel. They have time to do so for the playoffs. OG's injury will speed up that process
Shamet has to go
why? We upped his minutes and we won 5 in a row.
You have a suitable replacement or just a child like concept of one?He’s had his O-face on for as long as I can remember. 0-4. 0-1. 0-2. 0-1.
It’s easy to give Phil snarky responses for his quips. But he’s not wrong. Not a lot of value for a 3pt sniper that can’t snipe.
We don’t really have salary for a replacement in a waive situation. But Inwould include him as salary dump anywhere I could.
I trust Thibs more than PHilC quips or no quips.
Most everyone here provides context to what they say. Give a reason to why. Not just simpleton observations. We watch the games. We see the results.
What is Shamets plus-minus? How does lineups matter as to who he is in the games with?
Deep shit that the teams look at. Shamet plays against some teams and not others. They are far more detailed about this.
Most of us here recognize what we don't know. Thibs is as thorough a coach as anyone. If Shamet is not hurting and coach thinks as he gains his legs and timing he can contribute then its a process. Might not execute. Its a risk. We have seen Thibs implement things and players don't execute at first.
We tend to be result driven and react as so. None more simple than PhilC. Thats my frustration.
I get Warren and Chuma are in the wings and we just assume they would do well back in the league. I'd hope so but we know its never that simple. Knicks plan for injuries. What is never known is can a plan execute as hoped when the time comes.
Until then I recognize the aggregate of all players and if we win the game, then all the better. Shamet is not losing games. If ineffective he gets pulled. A child can sit there and say if he was replaced by a concept that executes it would be better. If it was all that simple!
Nalod wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:When is the best GM of all time going to bring in decent bench players?I like our bench, actually. We just started playing them a week ago it seems. Starters playing 48 mins a game to start the season definitely kick started their chemistry, so bench never had a chance to gel. They have time to do so for the playoffs. OG's injury will speed up that process
Shamet has to go
why? We upped his minutes and we won 5 in a row.
Yes Nalod the 5 wins in a row were because of Landry Shamet coming off the bench. Do you think before you post?
Yes. Knicks have a formula. It does not work all the time or execute. Nobody said SHamet was MVP. He was an ingredient.
Your an adult, you get this.First, you guys should start a sitcom.
Second, think once we get MR back, we will actually have a capable bench.
Most who have shown to be quite capable. Including Shamet. Who if given reasonable time to get his game back after injury. should get back to the level he played at prior to injury.
Btw, Bench only needs 4. Due to Thibs preference for a 9 man rotation.
So MR, Precious, Deuce, Payne with Shamet as situational is not bad.
Any trade (especially one involving Shamet) would be a lateral move. One that would return a player with limitations and who would need time to get comfortable with the system and new players.
Unless one thinks we can get a Butler or Beal for Sims or Shamet?Key now is to get guys back off injury list and keep guys off it.
No sitcom. How many punchlines can one use with "ELF"?
Sitcomes need be fresh and not predicable. Using Silver as scapegoat to or TV ratings and only ratings as measure is limited.
But if we must then perhaps a series loosely based on "Rainman" were Nalod is an NBA GM has to take PHilC to meetings and PhilC starts going off on Elf and Silver.
The effort is a distraction as the real genius behind PHilC is his super intellect to crunch numbers. A sort of "Brock Aller" but a total hot mess of a person. Nalod gets him to trade meetings and while others are rolling their eyes to the hot mess that is in front of them, Nalod is able to construct trades and unravel conspiracies understanding PhilC secret language. In season 2, the president of the USA, a sort of Trumpian character recognizes his genius and makes him Secretary of State. Phil's penchant for making up things delights the president but at some point the president takes his word on something and then embarrasses him. Then he starts making fun of him. Meanwhile Elfred Payton is superhero and saves the day as he is puts his country first. PhilC can't see this and still uses the punchline over and over and over and over again. Elf is too busy counting his career earnings to then acknowledge PhilC. Nalod, who is now living in the basement of his parents house plots his revenge for season 3.
Love it!
That’s some funny shit! 
Nalod wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:When is the best GM of all time going to bring in decent bench players?I like our bench, actually. We just started playing them a week ago it seems. Starters playing 48 mins a game to start the season definitely kick started their chemistry, so bench never had a chance to gel. They have time to do so for the playoffs. OG's injury will speed up that process
Shamet has to go
why? We upped his minutes and we won 5 in a row.
You have a suitable replacement or just a child like concept of one?He’s had his O-face on for as long as I can remember. 0-4. 0-1. 0-2. 0-1.
It’s easy to give Phil snarky responses for his quips. But he’s not wrong. Not a lot of value for a 3pt sniper that can’t snipe.
We don’t really have salary for a replacement in a waive situation. But Inwould include him as salary dump anywhere I could.
I trust Thibs more than PHilC quips or no quips.
Most everyone here provides context to what they say. Give a reason to why. Not just simpleton observations. We watch the games. We see the results.
What is Shamets plus-minus? How does lineups matter as to who he is in the games with?
Deep shit that the teams look at. Shamet plays against some teams and not others. They are far more detailed about this.
Most of us here recognize what we don't know. Thibs is as thorough a coach as anyone. If Shamet is not hurting and coach thinks as he gains his legs and timing he can contribute then its a process. Might not execute. Its a risk. We have seen Thibs implement things and players don't execute at first.
We tend to be result driven and react as so. None more simple than PhilC. Thats my frustration.I get Warren and Chuma are in the wings and we just assume they would do well back in the league. I'd hope so but we know its never that simple. Knicks plan for injuries. What is never known is can a plan execute as hoped when the time comes.
Until then I recognize the aggregate of all players and if we win the game, then all the better. Shamet is not losing games. If ineffective he gets pulled. A child can sit there and say if he was replaced by a concept that executes it would be better. If it was all that simple!
Shamet is like the new Elf. Completely ass player who Naldo is in love with
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:When is the best GM of all time going to bring in decent bench players?I like our bench, actually. We just started playing them a week ago it seems. Starters playing 48 mins a game to start the season definitely kick started their chemistry, so bench never had a chance to gel. They have time to do so for the playoffs. OG's injury will speed up that process
Shamet has to go
why? We upped his minutes and we won 5 in a row.
You have a suitable replacement or just a child like concept of one?He’s had his O-face on for as long as I can remember. 0-4. 0-1. 0-2. 0-1.
It’s easy to give Phil snarky responses for his quips. But he’s not wrong. Not a lot of value for a 3pt sniper that can’t snipe.
We don’t really have salary for a replacement in a waive situation. But Inwould include him as salary dump anywhere I could.
I trust Thibs more than PHilC quips or no quips.
Most everyone here provides context to what they say. Give a reason to why. Not just simpleton observations. We watch the games. We see the results.
What is Shamets plus-minus? How does lineups matter as to who he is in the games with?
Deep shit that the teams look at. Shamet plays against some teams and not others. They are far more detailed about this.
Most of us here recognize what we don't know. Thibs is as thorough a coach as anyone. If Shamet is not hurting and coach thinks as he gains his legs and timing he can contribute then its a process. Might not execute. Its a risk. We have seen Thibs implement things and players don't execute at first.
We tend to be result driven and react as so. None more simple than PhilC. Thats my frustration.I get Warren and Chuma are in the wings and we just assume they would do well back in the league. I'd hope so but we know its never that simple. Knicks plan for injuries. What is never known is can a plan execute as hoped when the time comes.
Until then I recognize the aggregate of all players and if we win the game, then all the better. Shamet is not losing games. If ineffective he gets pulled. A child can sit there and say if he was replaced by a concept that executes it would be better. If it was all that simple!
Shamet is like the new Elf. Completely ass player who Naldo is in love with
I thought you did not read my posts?
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https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1816883...
‘A diabolical genius’: The new bright mind in the Knicks front office
Mike Vorkunov
In early February, shortly after news that the Knicks would make Leon Rose their next team president leaked out, the Cavaliers front office was together for a meeting ahead of that week’s trade deadline. It was a business-as-usual affair except for one moment — the chance to needle Brock Aller about his future.
He had been a Cleveland executive for the last five years, but as soon as Rose’s hire appeared imminent, his colleagues couldn’t avoid ribbing him. They all knew that Aller already had a good relationship with Rose. The message was succinct, even if it was facetious: There goes Brock to the Knicks.
Aller played it cool, but about two months later those jokes became real. The Knicks hired Aller last month to be their new VP of basketball and strategic planning, the first addition made by Rose since he took over in March. That choice was the first indication of how Rose plans to reorient the front office — he has also since added Frank Zanin and Walt Perrin — as he takes over a franchise that has piled up seven straight losing seasons.
“He’s a big-picture guy,” David Griffin, the former Cavaliers GM and now Pelicans lead executive, said of Aller, “who is also a diabolical genius from a cap standpoint.”
In Aller, Rose has hired an adviser renown for his mastery of the salary cap and exploitation of collective bargaining agreement penumbras. Although Aller is not well-known, he earned plaudits for his work helping the Cavaliers manipulate the cap and became a vital resource to Griffin and current general manager Koby Altman.
He should have a significant voice in the Knicks front office as well. Aller and Rose have known each other for a long time, before he officially moved over to the Cavaliers, and have a relationship forged through a mutual acquaintance — World Wide Wes — who was close with Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Rose, with loads of cap space and seven first-round picks over the next four years left for him by his predecessors in front office, will have room to be resourceful with the Knicks.
Aller earned a reputation for creative thinking during his time in Cleveland, where his job encompassed strategy, planning trades and free agency, and looking for inventive transactions. He joined the Cavaliers front office in 2014, after Griffin was named GM, and immediately started pushing for the team to acquire Brendan Haywood. Aller recognized that Haywood’s contract had been grandfathered in from the old CBA, and would give the Cavaliers a useful trade resource because it ballooned from roughly $2 million in 2014 to a non-guaranteed $10.5 million for the 2015-16 season. The Cavaliers acquired Haywood that July and dealt him away the next offseason to create a large cap exception and ease their financial burden.
“He’s not a scout, he never played, he’s not like a basketball guy in the basketball sense,” said one league source with knowledge of Aller’s role in the Cavaliers organization. “Just every day he would come up with ideas — trade ideas, G League stuff, everything in the CBA. He would always try to find loop holes. He would look into every possible thing with that kind of stuff.”
The league source added: “He’s like a computer in a way because he studies that shit, he reads it, he knows everyone’s contract, everyone’s incentives. He’s really good. He’s really bright and smart.”
Before hiring Aller, Griffin said he was first going to look outside the organization to fill that job. But Aller had made an impression on him, and Griffin became convinced by Aller’s work for Gilbert, where he was also involved in strategic planning and development for Quicken Loans. Aller had served as a liaison between the Cavaliers and Gilbert and the rest of his business holdings. Gilbert had tried to convince the Cavaliers front office to bring in Aller, Griffin said, and he was finally the GM that did.
Griffin installed Aller as part of what he called “the nerd cave,” a three-person group charged with coming up with ideas to push the boundaries of the cap. Aller gained a reputation as detail-oriented executive regularly looking to wring out as much value as he could from a transaction. He also remained an important intermediary between the organization and Gilbert, league sources said.
“He gets more excited about protections on a second-round pick than anyone else on the planet,” said an NBA executive who knows Aller. “He loves that stuff.”
People reached for this story said Aller’s knowledge of contracts around the league is almost encyclopedic. He was one of the driving voices behind the Cavaliers’ two-year, $6 million non-guaranteed contract with Pat McCaw in 2019, league sources said. It was a controversial deal in which Cleveland signed the restricted free agent in late December and then released him after just three games and ahead of the league’s deadline to guarantee contracts for the season.
“Brock can rank the order the value of every piece of paper in the NBA,” Griffin said. “Not in terms of how good a player they are, but in terms of how useful their contract is. He will make sure that if he has anything to say about it, every deal your organization signs has a level of optionality that some teams don’t think of. That’s the benefit of him. You’re not going to do better than him in terms of contract structure.”
Aller played an integral role in the Cavaliers’ acquisition of Timofey Mozgov in January 2015, as the team made a number of trades to improve its roster after landing LeBron James the summer before. The Mozgov deal was the culmination of a series of trades (five in all) and signings in which the franchise was able to acquire three key rotation players for a team that went to the NBA Finals that season and won the title the next. The sequence involved Cleveland taking minimum deals to slowly add more cap space and acquire non-guaranteed contracts, all while using second-round picks to grease the wheels.
The Cavaliers, Griffin said, became the only team in NBA history to go from having max salary cap room to becoming a tax-paying team in the same season. That was able to happen because of Aller’s contributions and the work of that trio. The NBA has since cleaned up the CBA loopholes that allowed those trades to occur.
The NBA executive added: “(The Knicks are) going from not doing that at all to maybe the most creative guy in the league.”
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1822733...
‘He tees it up for everybody’: What a longtime Jazz exec brings to the Knicks
Mike Vorkunov
In 2001, Kevin O’Connor made his first hire as the head of the Jazz front office. He brought on Walt Perrin to run player personnel for Utah, impressed by the track record he put together for the Pistons and in need of someone who could the same for the Jazz.
Over the 19 years since, the Jazz have made more than a handful of gilded draft picks. Perrin pushed O’Connor to trade up to No. 3 in 2005, high enough to choose between Deron Williams and Chris Paul. “He said, ‘We have to get one of those two guys,'” O’Connor recalled, “‘because they’re going to be a franchise changer.’”
The Jazz picked future All-Stars with the 47th overall picks in 2003 (Mo Williams) and 2006 (Paul Millsap). Utah selected Gordon Hayward at No. 9 in 2010. Rudy Gobert, originally drafted by Denver but immediately traded to Utah, was a steal at No. 27 in 2013. The Jazz took Donovan Mitchell 13th in 2017 and watched him blossom into an All-Star.
“That’s one constant throughout all of that,” O’Connor said. “And that was Walt.”
Now, Perrin will bring that resume and scouting eye to New York. He will come in to be the Knicks assistant general manager in charge of college scouting, league sources said. The hire will be the second one made by new team president Leon Rose after he brought in Brock Aller in April as a VP of basketball strategy and kept Scott Perry as the Knicks general manager.
Perrin’s addition has been well-received after he played a large role in helping Utah have a number of successful drafts over his nearly two decades with the organization. He has earned a reputation as a well-connected and well-liked executive with a keen approach to the draft. Perrin was not the sole voice making picks with the Jazz, but as VP of player personnel, he was an integral part of advising O’Connor and then Dennis Lindsey in a string of draft-night successes. The Jazz were not without their mistakes over the last 19 years (Trey Burke and Dante Exum are two), but the franchise drafted six players who would become All-Stars in that time.
“I think he has a unique ability … to evaluate their transition into being a successful pro, both in character and personality for the franchise and the place that you’re at and overall talent,” O’Connor said. “Obviously you have to be good enough to play, but there’s other factors involved.”
Added O’Connor: “He’s the collector of information, and he tees it up for everybody. Then it gets to be a decision that is bandied around.”
Said Rick Sund, a longtime NBA executive and Pistons GM when Perrin was in Detroit: “Walt’s a respected guy within the industry, especially on the scouting side.”
Rose will have made his biggest shakeup yet to the scouting department when Perrin comes aboard. The Knicks have had limited prosperity in the draft over the last decade. Of their 15 picks in the last 10 years, Kristaps Porzingis is the lone All-Star, while Mitchell Robinson, drafted by the front office Rose inherited, is a second-round steal.
The Jazz landed two franchise pillars in that time. They traded for Gobert, a lanky and long center out of France, on draft night, and he is now the two-time reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
In 2017, Perrin convinced Mitchell’s agent to bring his client to Salt Lake City for a workout despite initial trepidation and the Jazz’s lack of a lottery pick. Then the Jazz traded up from 24 to 13 to select the steal of the draft.
“Walt was able to get him in and everybody obviously fell in love with him,” said O’Connor, now a senior consultant for the franchise. “Walt had already expressed that he thought (Mitchell) was a lottery pick.”
While parsing credit can be difficult, Perrin, one person with knowledge of the Jazz drafts said, had a “big role” in those picks, noting Utah’s general manager relies on the information Perrin gathers before making a deal or selection.
Perrin will be in a similar position in New York as the Knicks prepare for the 2020 draft, which is still scheduled for late June but seems likely to be moved. The league suspended its season in mid-March, but has yet to cancel it or announce any schedule to restart it. The draft combine and lottery, which were both scheduled for this week, have been postponed.
The Knicks have the sixth-worst record in the league and could pick anywhere from first to ninth, and Rose will be at the helm of his first draft. By bringing in Perrin, the Knicks not only add a well-respected executive, but also someone who has already done the work in preparing for the draft.
The 2020 draft will be another crucial one for the Knicks. They’ll hold a high lottery pick for the fourth straight season, but in a draft that has been described as weaker than usual.
Perrin will come to New York under those circumstances after a career mostly spent in a few places. He was an assistant coach at Northwestern for 12 years, working for Tex Winter, the great sage of the triangle offense, for the first four seasons from 1974-78. He spent nine seasons with the Pistons as an assistant coach and as the team’s scouting director.
When Perrin discussed the possibility of a new job with O’Connor, he had no reservations about taking it, his old boss said.
“It’s a great opportunity and I think Walt really liked the idea of another challenge,” O’Connor said. “I think Utah was a place that he’d been comfortable at for 19 years and done a terrific job. He could have rode off into the sunset, but I think he really wants to tie it on a little bit and take the challenge on. Figure out a way to get to ’70 and ’73 when the Knicks won the world championship.”
Leon did something they say you couldnt do in this league. He and Thibs built a program. The stars we got fit into that, not the other way around.
fishmike wrote:I think Breen nailed it on the their podcast. He said "you guys have brought joy back to Knick fans"Leon did something they say you couldnt do in this league. He and Thibs built a program. The stars we got fit into that, not the other way around.
very true
avoided the prima donnas
Leon Rose wrote:If I'm curt with you, its because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast, and I need you guys to act fast if you want to get out of this. So pretty please with sugar on top, don't ask me to do press conferences.
Until we see some playoff success, deep runs in the playoffs, right now he's ranked with every other Knicks GM/Pres with his playoff record. 4 plus years in. Results matter.
If its another early exit, is Leon really the best? Im guessing this is our best chance to make a deep run in many years, that would be something worth celebrating.
martin wrote:Walt toohttps://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1822733...
‘He tees it up for everybody’: What a longtime Jazz exec brings to the Knicks
Mike VorkunovIn 2001, Kevin O’Connor made his first hire as the head of the Jazz front office. He brought on Walt Perrin to run player personnel for Utah, impressed by the track record he put together for the Pistons and in need of someone who could the same for the Jazz.
Over the 19 years since, the Jazz have made more than a handful of gilded draft picks. Perrin pushed O’Connor to trade up to No. 3 in 2005, high enough to choose between Deron Williams and Chris Paul. “He said, ‘We have to get one of those two guys,'” O’Connor recalled, “‘because they’re going to be a franchise changer.’”
The Jazz picked future All-Stars with the 47th overall picks in 2003 (Mo Williams) and 2006 (Paul Millsap). Utah selected Gordon Hayward at No. 9 in 2010. Rudy Gobert, originally drafted by Denver but immediately traded to Utah, was a steal at No. 27 in 2013. The Jazz took Donovan Mitchell 13th in 2017 and watched him blossom into an All-Star.
“That’s one constant throughout all of that,” O’Connor said. “And that was Walt.”
Now, Perrin will bring that resume and scouting eye to New York. He will come in to be the Knicks assistant general manager in charge of college scouting, league sources said. The hire will be the second one made by new team president Leon Rose after he brought in Brock Aller in April as a VP of basketball strategy and kept Scott Perry as the Knicks general manager.
Perrin’s addition has been well-received after he played a large role in helping Utah have a number of successful drafts over his nearly two decades with the organization. He has earned a reputation as a well-connected and well-liked executive with a keen approach to the draft. Perrin was not the sole voice making picks with the Jazz, but as VP of player personnel, he was an integral part of advising O’Connor and then Dennis Lindsey in a string of draft-night successes. The Jazz were not without their mistakes over the last 19 years (Trey Burke and Dante Exum are two), but the franchise drafted six players who would become All-Stars in that time.
“I think he has a unique ability … to evaluate their transition into being a successful pro, both in character and personality for the franchise and the place that you’re at and overall talent,” O’Connor said. “Obviously you have to be good enough to play, but there’s other factors involved.”
Added O’Connor: “He’s the collector of information, and he tees it up for everybody. Then it gets to be a decision that is bandied around.”
Said Rick Sund, a longtime NBA executive and Pistons GM when Perrin was in Detroit: “Walt’s a respected guy within the industry, especially on the scouting side.”
Rose will have made his biggest shakeup yet to the scouting department when Perrin comes aboard. The Knicks have had limited prosperity in the draft over the last decade. Of their 15 picks in the last 10 years, Kristaps Porzingis is the lone All-Star, while Mitchell Robinson, drafted by the front office Rose inherited, is a second-round steal.
The Jazz landed two franchise pillars in that time. They traded for Gobert, a lanky and long center out of France, on draft night, and he is now the two-time reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
In 2017, Perrin convinced Mitchell’s agent to bring his client to Salt Lake City for a workout despite initial trepidation and the Jazz’s lack of a lottery pick. Then the Jazz traded up from 24 to 13 to select the steal of the draft.
“Walt was able to get him in and everybody obviously fell in love with him,” said O’Connor, now a senior consultant for the franchise. “Walt had already expressed that he thought (Mitchell) was a lottery pick.”
While parsing credit can be difficult, Perrin, one person with knowledge of the Jazz drafts said, had a “big role” in those picks, noting Utah’s general manager relies on the information Perrin gathers before making a deal or selection.
Perrin will be in a similar position in New York as the Knicks prepare for the 2020 draft, which is still scheduled for late June but seems likely to be moved. The league suspended its season in mid-March, but has yet to cancel it or announce any schedule to restart it. The draft combine and lottery, which were both scheduled for this week, have been postponed.
The Knicks have the sixth-worst record in the league and could pick anywhere from first to ninth, and Rose will be at the helm of his first draft. By bringing in Perrin, the Knicks not only add a well-respected executive, but also someone who has already done the work in preparing for the draft.
The 2020 draft will be another crucial one for the Knicks. They’ll hold a high lottery pick for the fourth straight season, but in a draft that has been described as weaker than usual.
Perrin will come to New York under those circumstances after a career mostly spent in a few places. He was an assistant coach at Northwestern for 12 years, working for Tex Winter, the great sage of the triangle offense, for the first four seasons from 1974-78. He spent nine seasons with the Pistons as an assistant coach and as the team’s scouting director.
When Perrin discussed the possibility of a new job with O’Connor, he had no reservations about taking it, his old boss said.
“It’s a great opportunity and I think Walt really liked the idea of another challenge,” O’Connor said. “I think Utah was a place that he’d been comfortable at for 19 years and done a terrific job. He could have rode off into the sunset, but I think he really wants to tie it on a little bit and take the challenge on. Figure out a way to get to ’70 and ’73 when the Knicks won the world championship.”
So 2020 was Perrins 1st draft with the Knicks. Believe me I'm sure he is great and hindsight is 20/20 but we picked Obi instead of Halliburton that year
.
BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:Walt toohttps://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1822733...
‘He tees it up for everybody’: What a longtime Jazz exec brings to the Knicks
Mike VorkunovIn 2001, Kevin O’Connor made his first hire as the head of the Jazz front office. He brought on Walt Perrin to run player personnel for Utah, impressed by the track record he put together for the Pistons and in need of someone who could the same for the Jazz.
Over the 19 years since, the Jazz have made more than a handful of gilded draft picks. Perrin pushed O’Connor to trade up to No. 3 in 2005, high enough to choose between Deron Williams and Chris Paul. “He said, ‘We have to get one of those two guys,'” O’Connor recalled, “‘because they’re going to be a franchise changer.’”
The Jazz picked future All-Stars with the 47th overall picks in 2003 (Mo Williams) and 2006 (Paul Millsap). Utah selected Gordon Hayward at No. 9 in 2010. Rudy Gobert, originally drafted by Denver but immediately traded to Utah, was a steal at No. 27 in 2013. The Jazz took Donovan Mitchell 13th in 2017 and watched him blossom into an All-Star.
“That’s one constant throughout all of that,” O’Connor said. “And that was Walt.”
Now, Perrin will bring that resume and scouting eye to New York. He will come in to be the Knicks assistant general manager in charge of college scouting, league sources said. The hire will be the second one made by new team president Leon Rose after he brought in Brock Aller in April as a VP of basketball strategy and kept Scott Perry as the Knicks general manager.
Perrin’s addition has been well-received after he played a large role in helping Utah have a number of successful drafts over his nearly two decades with the organization. He has earned a reputation as a well-connected and well-liked executive with a keen approach to the draft. Perrin was not the sole voice making picks with the Jazz, but as VP of player personnel, he was an integral part of advising O’Connor and then Dennis Lindsey in a string of draft-night successes. The Jazz were not without their mistakes over the last 19 years (Trey Burke and Dante Exum are two), but the franchise drafted six players who would become All-Stars in that time.
“I think he has a unique ability … to evaluate their transition into being a successful pro, both in character and personality for the franchise and the place that you’re at and overall talent,” O’Connor said. “Obviously you have to be good enough to play, but there’s other factors involved.”
Added O’Connor: “He’s the collector of information, and he tees it up for everybody. Then it gets to be a decision that is bandied around.”
Said Rick Sund, a longtime NBA executive and Pistons GM when Perrin was in Detroit: “Walt’s a respected guy within the industry, especially on the scouting side.”
Rose will have made his biggest shakeup yet to the scouting department when Perrin comes aboard. The Knicks have had limited prosperity in the draft over the last decade. Of their 15 picks in the last 10 years, Kristaps Porzingis is the lone All-Star, while Mitchell Robinson, drafted by the front office Rose inherited, is a second-round steal.
The Jazz landed two franchise pillars in that time. They traded for Gobert, a lanky and long center out of France, on draft night, and he is now the two-time reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
In 2017, Perrin convinced Mitchell’s agent to bring his client to Salt Lake City for a workout despite initial trepidation and the Jazz’s lack of a lottery pick. Then the Jazz traded up from 24 to 13 to select the steal of the draft.
“Walt was able to get him in and everybody obviously fell in love with him,” said O’Connor, now a senior consultant for the franchise. “Walt had already expressed that he thought (Mitchell) was a lottery pick.”
While parsing credit can be difficult, Perrin, one person with knowledge of the Jazz drafts said, had a “big role” in those picks, noting Utah’s general manager relies on the information Perrin gathers before making a deal or selection.
Perrin will be in a similar position in New York as the Knicks prepare for the 2020 draft, which is still scheduled for late June but seems likely to be moved. The league suspended its season in mid-March, but has yet to cancel it or announce any schedule to restart it. The draft combine and lottery, which were both scheduled for this week, have been postponed.
The Knicks have the sixth-worst record in the league and could pick anywhere from first to ninth, and Rose will be at the helm of his first draft. By bringing in Perrin, the Knicks not only add a well-respected executive, but also someone who has already done the work in preparing for the draft.
The 2020 draft will be another crucial one for the Knicks. They’ll hold a high lottery pick for the fourth straight season, but in a draft that has been described as weaker than usual.
Perrin will come to New York under those circumstances after a career mostly spent in a few places. He was an assistant coach at Northwestern for 12 years, working for Tex Winter, the great sage of the triangle offense, for the first four seasons from 1974-78. He spent nine seasons with the Pistons as an assistant coach and as the team’s scouting director.
When Perrin discussed the possibility of a new job with O’Connor, he had no reservations about taking it, his old boss said.
“It’s a great opportunity and I think Walt really liked the idea of another challenge,” O’Connor said. “I think Utah was a place that he’d been comfortable at for 19 years and done a terrific job. He could have rode off into the sunset, but I think he really wants to tie it on a little bit and take the challenge on. Figure out a way to get to ’70 and ’73 when the Knicks won the world championship.”
So 2020 was Perrins 1st draft with the Knicks. Believe me I'm sure he is great and hindsight is 20/20 but we picked Obi instead of Halliburton that year
.
Perry also got IQ in that same draft who was a home run especially by 2nd round standards. IQ was a good player and eventually turned into OG
GustavBahler wrote:On a fun ranking, Leon is up there with the best, making the Knicks watchable again.Until we see some playoff success, deep runs in the playoffs, right now he's ranked with every other Knicks GM/Pres with his playoff record. 4 plus years in. Results matter.
If its another early exit, is Leon really the best? Im guessing this is our best chance to make a deep run in many years, that would be something worth celebrating.
If you can't see a difference between where this team got in 4 years after 20 years as a steaming pile of dog shit, I don't know what to tell you.
BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:Walt toohttps://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1822733...
‘He tees it up for everybody’: What a longtime Jazz exec brings to the Knicks
Mike VorkunovIn 2001, Kevin O’Connor made his first hire as the head of the Jazz front office. He brought on Walt Perrin to run player personnel for Utah, impressed by the track record he put together for the Pistons and in need of someone who could the same for the Jazz.
Over the 19 years since, the Jazz have made more than a handful of gilded draft picks. Perrin pushed O’Connor to trade up to No. 3 in 2005, high enough to choose between Deron Williams and Chris Paul. “He said, ‘We have to get one of those two guys,'” O’Connor recalled, “‘because they’re going to be a franchise changer.’”
The Jazz picked future All-Stars with the 47th overall picks in 2003 (Mo Williams) and 2006 (Paul Millsap). Utah selected Gordon Hayward at No. 9 in 2010. Rudy Gobert, originally drafted by Denver but immediately traded to Utah, was a steal at No. 27 in 2013. The Jazz took Donovan Mitchell 13th in 2017 and watched him blossom into an All-Star.
“That’s one constant throughout all of that,” O’Connor said. “And that was Walt.”
Now, Perrin will bring that resume and scouting eye to New York. He will come in to be the Knicks assistant general manager in charge of college scouting, league sources said. The hire will be the second one made by new team president Leon Rose after he brought in Brock Aller in April as a VP of basketball strategy and kept Scott Perry as the Knicks general manager.
Perrin’s addition has been well-received after he played a large role in helping Utah have a number of successful drafts over his nearly two decades with the organization. He has earned a reputation as a well-connected and well-liked executive with a keen approach to the draft. Perrin was not the sole voice making picks with the Jazz, but as VP of player personnel, he was an integral part of advising O’Connor and then Dennis Lindsey in a string of draft-night successes. The Jazz were not without their mistakes over the last 19 years (Trey Burke and Dante Exum are two), but the franchise drafted six players who would become All-Stars in that time.
“I think he has a unique ability … to evaluate their transition into being a successful pro, both in character and personality for the franchise and the place that you’re at and overall talent,” O’Connor said. “Obviously you have to be good enough to play, but there’s other factors involved.”
Added O’Connor: “He’s the collector of information, and he tees it up for everybody. Then it gets to be a decision that is bandied around.”
Said Rick Sund, a longtime NBA executive and Pistons GM when Perrin was in Detroit: “Walt’s a respected guy within the industry, especially on the scouting side.”
Rose will have made his biggest shakeup yet to the scouting department when Perrin comes aboard. The Knicks have had limited prosperity in the draft over the last decade. Of their 15 picks in the last 10 years, Kristaps Porzingis is the lone All-Star, while Mitchell Robinson, drafted by the front office Rose inherited, is a second-round steal.
The Jazz landed two franchise pillars in that time. They traded for Gobert, a lanky and long center out of France, on draft night, and he is now the two-time reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
In 2017, Perrin convinced Mitchell’s agent to bring his client to Salt Lake City for a workout despite initial trepidation and the Jazz’s lack of a lottery pick. Then the Jazz traded up from 24 to 13 to select the steal of the draft.
“Walt was able to get him in and everybody obviously fell in love with him,” said O’Connor, now a senior consultant for the franchise. “Walt had already expressed that he thought (Mitchell) was a lottery pick.”
While parsing credit can be difficult, Perrin, one person with knowledge of the Jazz drafts said, had a “big role” in those picks, noting Utah’s general manager relies on the information Perrin gathers before making a deal or selection.
Perrin will be in a similar position in New York as the Knicks prepare for the 2020 draft, which is still scheduled for late June but seems likely to be moved. The league suspended its season in mid-March, but has yet to cancel it or announce any schedule to restart it. The draft combine and lottery, which were both scheduled for this week, have been postponed.
The Knicks have the sixth-worst record in the league and could pick anywhere from first to ninth, and Rose will be at the helm of his first draft. By bringing in Perrin, the Knicks not only add a well-respected executive, but also someone who has already done the work in preparing for the draft.
The 2020 draft will be another crucial one for the Knicks. They’ll hold a high lottery pick for the fourth straight season, but in a draft that has been described as weaker than usual.
Perrin will come to New York under those circumstances after a career mostly spent in a few places. He was an assistant coach at Northwestern for 12 years, working for Tex Winter, the great sage of the triangle offense, for the first four seasons from 1974-78. He spent nine seasons with the Pistons as an assistant coach and as the team’s scouting director.
When Perrin discussed the possibility of a new job with O’Connor, he had no reservations about taking it, his old boss said.
“It’s a great opportunity and I think Walt really liked the idea of another challenge,” O’Connor said. “I think Utah was a place that he’d been comfortable at for 19 years and done a terrific job. He could have rode off into the sunset, but I think he really wants to tie it on a little bit and take the challenge on. Figure out a way to get to ’70 and ’73 when the Knicks won the world championship.”
So 2020 was Perrins 1st draft with the Knicks. Believe me I'm sure he is great and hindsight is 20/20 but we picked Obi instead of Halliburton that year
.
I always thought the Obi pick was a Leon, Uncle Wes pick. Don’t know if those were rumors or just understood thinking
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Panos wrote:GustavBahler wrote:On a fun ranking, Leon is up there with the best, making the Knicks watchable again.Until we see some playoff success, deep runs in the playoffs, right now he's ranked with every other Knicks GM/Pres with his playoff record. 4 plus years in. Results matter.
If its another early exit, is Leon really the best? Im guessing this is our best chance to make a deep run in many years, that would be something worth celebrating.
If you can't see a difference between where this team got in 4 years after 20 years as a steaming pile of dog shit, I don't know what to tell you.
I want the Knicks to go farther than those dog shit teams. Calling Rose "the best exec ever" in the 79 year history of the team with 2nd round exits at best?
Im happy about the Knicks being fun again. Have said it repeatedly.
The "best exec ever" stuff can wait until the body of work is worth comparing. Too soon