NYStateOfMind wrote:Amen, what does Sims add to this team? Rather see, Huk or Dadiet with those 9 mins.franco12 wrote:did I really waste my afternoon watching this game? Who owns our draft pick?
Thibs has to do something. Were we just gassed by the 4th?
I knew we were hanging by a thread and it just snapped.
Thibs has to play the rookies because I'd rather lose by 20 that way than lose by 20 watching guys just collapse in the 4th quarter.
I agree Sims has been underwhelming. But he has always been a break in case of emergency guy. What do people expect. Agree, I'd like to see more of Huk, but Thibs has his way.
BigDaddyG wrote:Knicksfan wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:KAT isn't the problem, Mikal fitting in is so far. Weak short bench isn't helping.BigDaddyG wrote:I think this season is more about finding an identity. I first saw the KAT trade as a lateral move, but now I think the team has taken a step back. I'm hoping the team can move forward like the Wolves and Cavs have and we can finally see some magic next season.
KAT isn't the problem offensively. Defensively, he's a square peg being pushed into a round hole.
Oh, but where is that legendary Wingstop that was supposed to be the nightmare of the league? Just another overrated aspect of our game.
Wow, Im so down on this team right now. I can understand things still not fitting, but not playing with passion and urgency on a game where you lead by double digits only to AGAIN fall apart in the 4th? These meltdowns are becoming a trend and Im hating it.
Wingstop hasn't lived up to the hype, but they haven't been horrible. You want OG to attack his man o defensive, rotate and protect the rim?
OG has been amazing. His part has been there. My hate right now goes to Mikal, who always seems lost out there on defense.
Agreed. This is like the team a few years ago, with less heart and effort late in games.
Knicksfan wrote:franco12 wrote:did I really waste my afternoon watching this game? Who owns our draft pick?
Thibs has to do something. Were we just gassed by the 4th?
I knew we were hanging by a thread and it just snapped.
Thibs has to play the rookies because I'd rather lose by 20 that way than lose by 20 watching guys just collapse in the 4th quarter.
Im in Europe. I have to stay late or wake up extremely early for these games. Knicks are making me hate them.
Knicksfan wrote:Knixkik wrote:We need more from Mikal on both ends. He hasn’t been the difference maker he needs to be.
He has been the difference maker, for all the wrong reasons. Honestly so much hate has been directed at KAT that nobody is seeing how terrible Bridges has been?
No one is saying Bridges has been good.But I think KAT's offense has blinded people to his defensive fit. The system doesn't fit the roster defensively. And to be honest, it can be tweaked on offense as well.
Knicksfan wrote:Clean wrote:Kats been playing well but lets not forget Randle playmaking set us up with a ton of open 3's. We don't get them now.
Hart has been helping on that aspect. Mikal was supposed to, but right now he just sucks on every level.
Bridges was never a playmaker. That is why I did not want to trade for him last season. Once Randle got injured Brunson was the only playmaker and that made us easy to guard. The FO overlooked that part of the game. You need someone to breakdown the defense.
BigDaddyG wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Amen, what does Sims add to this team? Rather see, Huk or Dadiet with those 9 mins.franco12 wrote:did I really waste my afternoon watching this game? Who owns our draft pick?
Thibs has to do something. Were we just gassed by the 4th?
I knew we were hanging by a thread and it just snapped.
Thibs has to play the rookies because I'd rather lose by 20 that way than lose by 20 watching guys just collapse in the 4th quarter.
I agree Sims has been underwhelming. But he has always been a break in case of emergency guy. What do people expect. Agree, I'd like to see more of Huk, but Thibs has his way.
Sims hasn't been the problem. He hasn't been a solution either, but he doesn't have to.
I thought this team had enough wing defenders to help KAT, but that is where I think Bridges is fully disappointing.
I don't know. This team sucks and I wonder if its a long-term issue.
I disagree. The majority of Pacer 3s were due to switches or losing their man on the pick, that fueled their comeback and broke the game over. Up 6, bam bam, 2 open 3s, tied. That happened several times. Talking, timeouts, nothing helped. Kept doing the same move, often with Mikal involved. Having Mitch will help, but I don't want to mask issues, adjust to them instead. This loss was avoidable, as were 2 others. To lose all 3 is sad. I'd feel better if we had pulled one out. This is how a 5-8 seed plays, even play-in teams. This team has the talent and should be top 4, if not higher.
BigDaddyG wrote:Knicksfan wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:VDesai wrote:KAT is mot the issue on D. Its Mikal
Both can be the issue. But stats point to Mikal being solid on his man this season. Mikal's job isn't to intimidate drivers in the paint. That's all on KAT.
Honestly its mostly Mikal and the freaking switching. We are always late in defensive rotations, either leaving a man open for three or the ball finding the man open in the paint while KAT is not around. But we were supposed to have that covered with Mikal, OG and Hart, yet its becoming another overrated aspect of this team.
I'd argue the team doesn't switch enough. KAT will never be a backline defender, but he's still fairly nimble. We need Mitch back.
Clean wrote:Knicksfan wrote:Clean wrote:Kats been playing well but lets not forget Randle playmaking set us up with a ton of open 3's. We don't get them now.
Hart has been helping on that aspect. Mikal was supposed to, but right now he just sucks on every level.
Bridges was never a playmaker. That is why I did not want to trade for him last season. Once Randle got injured Brunson was the only playmaker and that made us easy to guard. The FO overlooked that part of the game. You need someone to breakdown the defense.
That's a key point. Randle could get his and draw defenders. KAT can do that in most matchups, but it has to be from the post, low or high. That, a long with Hart, negates the 5 out offense. I thought the team might have found an answer using Josh as an initiator in the half court, kind of like a mini Draymond.
BigDaddyG wrote:Knicksfan wrote:Knixkik wrote:We need more from Mikal on both ends. He hasn’t been the difference maker he needs to be.
He has been the difference maker, for all the wrong reasons. Honestly so much hate has been directed at KAT that nobody is seeing how terrible Bridges has been?
No one is saying Bridges has been good.But I think KAT's offense has blinded people to his defensive fit. The system doesn't fit the roster defensively. And to be honest, it can be tweaked on offense as well.
Im curious about the impact that Precious might have on a starting lineup next to KAT, but just the thought of hoping that Precious saves us is frustrating. But its true what has been mentioned on this thread: Mitch and IHart cleaned up a lot of mistakes. What I find very disappointing is that Bridges was supposed to cut on that, but he seems to be one of the main reasons for our defensive struggles. Today he was always late and behind the shooter, scrambling and spinning like he was lost. Then on the other end he clanks jumpers and... Freaking overpay...
Philc1 wrote:Clean wrote:Knicksfan wrote:Clean wrote:Kats been playing well but lets not forget Randle playmaking set us up with a ton of open 3's. We don't get them now.
Hart has been helping on that aspect. Mikal was supposed to, but right now he just sucks on every level.
Bridges was never a playmaker. That is why I did not want to trade for him last season. Once Randle got injured Brunson was the only playmaker and that made us easy to guard. The FO overlooked that part of the game. You need someone to breakdown the defense.
Deuce, KAT, kolek
Mcbride does not handle pressure well. Kolek does not play much and Kat does that off action with Brunson and you can shut that down quick by not putting a slow center on him.
Frustrating loss. We need to learn how to finish games on the road.
I love Thibs but this was a poorly coached game by him. No reason to go just 7 deep in game number nine. I totally get it going 7 if it's the playoffs or an important regular season game late in the season but to do it now is dumb. Especially when Kolek has shown he can handle some minutes. And bad coaching not setting up more 3s especially when we got down in the 4th. Can't win trading 2s for 3s.
Awful defense in the 4th. Two passes and a Hick was wide open for a 3. Deuce had a bad game and got torched by whoever he was on. And KAT with too much room on Turner. Entire team defense collapsed.
Give the Hicks credit. You knew they'd play better after the beat down at MSG and only scoring 82 on Friday. Maturin had a career game with 38 and Haliburton had 35. Poor defense by Bridges. He can do a lot better.
On the positives, Brunson looked better and OG was so good in the first half but disappeared in the second half.
4-5 but all the mistakes are fixable. It's a long season!
NYStateOfMind wrote:I disagree. The majority of Pacer 3s were due to switches or losing their man on the pick, that fueled their comeback and broke the game over. Up 6, bam bam, 2 open 3s, tied. That happened several times. Talking, timeouts, nothing helped. Kept doing the same move, often with Mikal involved. Having Mitch will help, but I don't want to mask issues, adjust to them instead. This loss was avoidable, as were 2 others. To lose all 3 is sad. I'd feel better if we had pulled one out. This is how a 5-8 seed plays, even play-in teams. This team has the talent and should be top 4, if not higher.BigDaddyG wrote:Knicksfan wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:VDesai wrote:KAT is mot the issue on D. Its Mikal
Both can be the issue. But stats point to Mikal being solid on his man this season. Mikal's job isn't to intimidate drivers in the paint. That's all on KAT.
Honestly its mostly Mikal and the freaking switching. We are always late in defensive rotations, either leaving a man open for three or the ball finding the man open in the paint while KAT is not around. But we were supposed to have that covered with Mikal, OG and Hart, yet its becoming another overrated aspect of this team.
I'd argue the team doesn't switch enough. KAT will never be a backline defender, but he's still fairly nimble. We need Mitch back.
I think those threes were also generated by the Pacers small getting the rim with no fear and then kicking out. It's not about masking issues it's about creating an environment that helps your players thrive.
Philc1 wrote:Clean wrote:Knicksfan wrote:Clean wrote:Kats been playing well but lets not forget Randle playmaking set us up with a ton of open 3's. We don't get them now.
Hart has been helping on that aspect. Mikal was supposed to, but right now he just sucks on every level.
Bridges was never a playmaker. That is why I did not want to trade for him last season. Once Randle got injured Brunson was the only playmaker and that made us easy to guard. The FO overlooked that part of the game. You need someone to breakdown the defense.
Deuce, KAT, kolek
Deuce still struggles sometimes on that department. KAT should definitely be featured more on this sense.
Kolek, its a Thibs thing. Still doesn't make sense to me that he is only using him as an occasional shooter instead of trying to ease him in as a PG in his minutes, but its the Thibs way.
Either way, I think the panic button is definitely pressed on this team's defense. We can score, but we can't stop anyone.
These might be related. we are the bottom of the league in everything in the 4th.
McBride clearly sick. Probably hurt more by playing because if he opted out, Thibs might have had no choice but to go with Kolek.
28% from 3.
Gave up 58 in the 1st half 74 in the 2nd. We went 61 and 60 on offense, consistent.
Some issues I'm seeing so far....
* We over comitt on dirbble penetration - This has been a problem since Thibs has been stalking the sidelines at MSG. It's clear that Thibs is teaching this team to protect inside-out...we over-protect the paint on dribble penetration, then find the shooters on the kick out. This philosphy made sense, 15 maybe 10 years ago, but with the overemphases on the 3 ball in today's league, its a problem.
* We struggle with defending the transition 3 as well...A couple of times I saw Duece run back, get a paint touch, then fly out to shooters but it was too late...
* Our last 2 losses, we saw two wings (Risachere and Matherin), not only score a career high in points, but took the most 3 point shots they tok all year... Even in the Cleveland game, the Cavs shot 33%, but they missed a bunch of open 3's.
* Defensively, we are still not on the same page as far as communication goes. Saw some confusion on whether to swicth or not, etc.
* Kat played 39 mins tonight....Mikal played 42, Brunson, 41 and Hart at 43. Guys are tired....We need our bench guys back for sure.
BigDaddyG wrote:Knicksfan wrote:Knixkik wrote:We need more from Mikal on both ends. He hasn’t been the difference maker he needs to be.
He has been the difference maker, for all the wrong reasons. Honestly so much hate has been directed at KAT that nobody is seeing how terrible Bridges has been?
No one is saying Bridges has been good.But I think KAT's offense has blinded people to his defensive fit. The system doesn't fit the roster defensively. And to be honest, it can be tweaked on offense as well.
Agreed....not fan of having Towns play strictly drop....I explained the other issues I see in the post above.
Uptown wrote:Some issues I'm seeing so far....* We over comitt on dirbble penetration - This has been a problem since Thibs has been pstalking the sidelines at MSG. It's clear that Thibs is teaching this team to protect inside-out...we protect the paint on dribble penetration, then find the shooters on the kick out. This philosphy made sense, 15 maybe 10 years ago, but with the overemphases on the 3 ball in today's league, its a problem.
* We struggle with defending the transition 3 as well...A couple of times I saw Duece run back, get a paint touch, then fly out to shooters but it was too late...
* Our last 2 losses, we saw two wings (Risachere and Matherin), not only score a career high in points, but took the most 3 point shots they tok all year... Even in the Cleveland game, the Cavs shot 33%, but they missed a bunch of open 3's.
* Defensively, we are still not on the same page as far as communication goes. Saw some confusion on whether to swicth or not, etc.
* Kat played 39 mins tonight....Mikal played 42, Brunson, 41 and Hart at 43. Guys are tired....We need our bench guys back for sure.
Bro, I been fighting a war on the bold part for like 4 years now. I have always hated his defensive philosopy on this. Its why everyone shoots well vs us. Even scubs like the rookie from ATL. We give them a steady diet of open 3's.
Agree with most of this, but did OG disappear or did they stop going to him?
SergioNYK wrote:Frustrating loss. We need to learn how to finish games on the road. I love Thibs but this was a poorly coached game by him. No reason to go just 7 deep in game number nine. I totally get it going 7 if it's the playoffs or an important regular season game late in the season but to do it now is dumb. Especially when Kolek has shown he can handle some minutes. And bad coaching not setting up more 3s especially when we got down in the 4th. Can't win trading 2s for 3s.
Awful defense in the 4th. Two passes and a Hick was wide open for a 3. Deuce had a bad game and got torched by whoever he was on. And KAT with too much room on Turner. Entire team defense collapsed.
Give the Hicks credit. You knew they'd play better after the beat down at MSG and only scoring 82 on Friday. Maturin had a career game with 38 and Haliburton had 35. Poor defense by Bridges. He can do a lot better.
On the positives, Brunson looked better and OG was so good in the first half but disappeared in the second half.
4-5 but all the mistakes are fixable. It's a long season!
