Knicks · Its blurry...but we can see the vision (page 3)

martin wrote:I’m projecting again. I think this is Leon’s vision.

Brunson Mikal HerbJones OG KAT
Payne McBride Hart Precious Sims
Kolek McCullar Dadiet Hukporti, Rokas JamesNnaji

First tier offensive players at PG/C surrounded by first tier defensive-spacer wings.

Backups that Thibs loves and can sub in whenever or start in a pinch, every one of them. Josh is the main cog that makes everything groove and first guy off bench.

Third layer development stack and unsigned Euros.

Not bad and deep with plenty of upside!

Don't know if you would want to move Hart from the starting unit. Herb at the 3 for the 2nd unit fits like a glove as well.

Then again we probably shouldn't do that move until we sure up the ability to rim protect and rebound outside of Mitch first.

https://bsky.app/profile/mrtoots.bsky.so...

Josh Hart is currently playing like an elite big man. He's 2nd in the NBA in 2P% and 15th in total defensive rebounds. The only other players who are in the Top 20 in both categories are Giannis Antetokounmpo, Domantas Sabonis, Jarrett Allen, Nikola Vučević, and Rudy Gobert.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/josh-ha...

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

I think Josh Hart is playing All Star basketball, so I don’t see he should be sent to the second unit. He’s like our Draymond Green at SG. Im all about trading Mitchell Robinson for someone, but other GMa know how fragile he is too.

BigDaddyG wrote:https://bsky.app/profile/mrtoots.bsky.so...

Josh Hart is currently playing like an elite big man. He's 2nd in the NBA in 2P% and 15th in total defensive rebounds. The only other players who are in the Top 20 in both categories are Giannis Antetokounmpo, Domantas Sabonis, Jarrett Allen, Nikola Vučević, and Rudy Gobert.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/josh-ha...

and what toodarkmark said... I dont know if this is a Thibs thing by design or it's happening because that's the kind of player Josh is but its amazing. In a pure 5 out offense he's the would be weak link being the worst shooter from 3 but what's happening is he's got the ball more with all this space and he's an open court monster from coast to coast. He gets like like "I didnt mean to score so many points but if they are gonna make it that easy I gotta give Jalen and Kat a lil rest"

He's so good. Role player glue guy feels unfair but whatever. Everyone who watches this team knows how valuable and impactful Josh is. Felt bad about the 3 point oops foul a while back. Shit like that only motivates this squad. Loving what I am seeing. Just gotta shore up the bench

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

If I up my meds later I'll really let my fingers talk this one thru. Until then I'll mind my Peas and Ques..........

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

If I up my meds later I'll really let my fingers talk this one thru. Until then I'll mind my Peas and Ques..........

More meds! Early and often!

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

If I up my meds later I'll really let my fingers talk this one thru. Until then I'll mind my Peas and Ques..........

More meds! Early and often!

this thread is "Its Blurry"! Just being compliant. Although Gustav is already "fuzzy"!

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

If I up my meds later I'll really let my fingers talk this one thru. Until then I'll mind my Peas and Ques..........

More meds! Early and often!

this thread is "Its Blurry"! Just being compliant. Although Gustav is already "fuzzy"!

Some of us born to be fuzzy. At least tonight 😅

Just a reminder of what we will be getting back.

Vision = This playoff rotation. Spot minutes from others as needed.

Brunson
Hart / McBride
Bridges / H. Jones
OG / Achiuwa
KAT

Change is that Hart has completely turned his game up a huge notch and the underlying reasons look legit and correlated. It’s only 15 games, but the increase in 3pt and FT shooting look like someone put the work in. Or maybe it’s him sipping from the baby’s stash…

EwingsGlass wrote:Vision = This playoff rotation. Spot minutes from others as needed.

Brunson
Hart / McBride
Bridges / H. Jones
OG / Achiuwa
KAT

Change is that Hart has completely turned his game up a huge notch and the underlying reasons look legit and correlated. It’s only 15 games, but the increase in 3pt and FT shooting look like someone put the work in. Or maybe it’s him sipping from the baby’s stash…

Got to give Huk or Sims a few scrap minutes!

EwingsGlass wrote:Vision = This playoff rotation. Spot minutes from others as needed.

Brunson
Hart / McBride
Bridges / H. Jones
OG / Achiuwa
KAT

Change is that Hart has completely turned his game up a huge notch and the underlying reasons look legit and correlated. It’s only 15 games, but the increase in 3pt and FT shooting look like someone put the work in. Or maybe it’s him sipping from the baby’s stash…

Hart has definitely stepped his game up. this year....But, part of the reason why Josh has looked so good this year is the KAT affect. Teams are starting to put their centers on Josh because they are trying to match KAT with quicker forwards that they hope can keep KAT from his straight line drives.

Centers are allowing Josh the space to shoot and see the floor. He also has a quickness advantage and has the IQ to basket cut when he sees openings. Josh is most dangerous in the open court after he snatches the rebound and starts a one man fast break. When he is being guarded by the center and he takes off down the court. the other team has to figure out who is stopping the ball and who is cover the 3 point line....Josh is usually able to go coast to coast in all the confusion. He is smart with the ball in his hands...

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

He messed up explaining but I think he is going by what they did with McBride. Keep their minutes down until you get them on the long term contract at a good price. They tried it with iHart but Mitch could not stay healthy long enough to allow them. Agents are not going to allow their players to sign those 3 years min/low money deals as readily as in the past. So by keeping their minutes down you stop teams from knowing how good they are and poaching them before we get their full bird rights like OKC did to iHart.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Vision = This playoff rotation. Spot minutes from others as needed.

Brunson
Hart / McBride
Bridges / H. Jones
OG / Achiuwa
KAT

Change is that Hart has completely turned his game up a huge notch and the underlying reasons look legit and correlated. It’s only 15 games, but the increase in 3pt and FT shooting look like someone put the work in. Or maybe it’s him sipping from the baby’s stash…

Got to give Huk or Sims a few scrap minutes!

Scrap minutes doled out as needed. But I think that’s my ideal 8 man rotation. The Cam/Deuce dynamic is what I am watching and the Sims/Achiuwa. If one of them signs an extension before the playoffs, you kind of have your answer.

That Herb Jones / Mitch Robinson swap seems like the most obvious answer for both teams, but given how sucky NoP has been sucking, they might suck too much to see it. And I could see them solving their center problem with Ingram getting traded.

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

He messed up explaining but I think he is going by what they did with McBride. Keep their minutes down until you get them on the long term contract at a good price. They tried it with iHart but Mitch could not stay healthy long enough to allow them. Agents are not going to allow their players to sign those 3 years min/low money deals as readily as in the past. So by keeping their minutes down you stop teams from knowing how good they are and poaching them before we get their full bird rights like OKC did to iHart.

I just noticed that Memphis locked Jay Huff on a 4 year 10mm dollar contract. I’d guess the idea is as you state, don’t let other teams see enough to demand his inclusion in a trade.

Uptown wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Vision = This playoff rotation. Spot minutes from others as needed.

Brunson
Hart / McBride
Bridges / H. Jones
OG / Achiuwa
KAT

Change is that Hart has completely turned his game up a huge notch and the underlying reasons look legit and correlated. It’s only 15 games, but the increase in 3pt and FT shooting look like someone put the work in. Or maybe it’s him sipping from the baby’s stash…

Hart has definitely stepped his game up. this year....But, part of the reason why Josh has looked so good this year is the KAT affect. Teams are starting to put their centers on Josh because they are trying to match KAT with quicker forwards that they hope can keep KAT from his straight line drives.

Centers are allowing Josh the space to shoot and see the floor. He also has a quickness advantage and has the IQ to basket cut when he sees openings. Josh is most dangerous in the open court after he snatches the rebound and starts a one man fast break. When he is being guarded by the center and he takes off down the court. the other team has to figure out who is stopping the ball and who is cover the 3 point line....Josh is usually able to go coast to coast in all the confusion. He is smart with the ball in his hands...

I interpret that two ways. First is just a plain reading that Hart is better due to his surroundings. While true, he is playing like 46 minutes a game and is still performing with KAT off the court.

Second is the - “if KAT can do that for Hart, imagine what he could do for ____”.

I think we saw some of this Hart in the playoffs last year. Shot something like 37% from three and was near averaging a triple double. Because we saw it in crunch time, I think it’s more real than not and I want to believe. So, where I started the season thinking he was undersized and not a good enough shooter, right now, I just think he is a mf—-ing baller that does the things that teams need to win.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Uptown wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Vision = This playoff rotation. Spot minutes from others as needed.

Brunson
Hart / McBride
Bridges / H. Jones
OG / Achiuwa
KAT

Change is that Hart has completely turned his game up a huge notch and the underlying reasons look legit and correlated. It’s only 15 games, but the increase in 3pt and FT shooting look like someone put the work in. Or maybe it’s him sipping from the baby’s stash…

Hart has definitely stepped his game up. this year....But, part of the reason why Josh has looked so good this year is the KAT affect. Teams are starting to put their centers on Josh because they are trying to match KAT with quicker forwards that they hope can keep KAT from his straight line drives.

Centers are allowing Josh the space to shoot and see the floor. He also has a quickness advantage and has the IQ to basket cut when he sees openings. Josh is most dangerous in the open court after he snatches the rebound and starts a one man fast break. When he is being guarded by the center and he takes off down the court. the other team has to figure out who is stopping the ball and who is cover the 3 point line....Josh is usually able to go coast to coast in all the confusion. He is smart with the ball in his hands...

I interpret that two ways. First is just a plain reading that Hart is better due to his surroundings. While true, he is playing like 46 minutes a game and is still performing with KAT off the court.

Second is the - “if KAT can do that for Hart, imagine what he could do for ____”.

I think we saw some of this Hart in the playoffs last year. Shot something like 37% from three and was near averaging a triple double. Because we saw it in crunch time, I think it’s more real than not and I want to believe. So, where I started the season thinking he was undersized and not a good enough shooter, right now, I just think he is a mf—-ing baller that does the things that teams need to win.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanc...

You are on to something though. I went back to look at the numbers. Small sample set, but Hart might need KAT. We don’t have a lot of lineups over 25 mins of PT through 15 games, but instances with Hart on the floor without KAT we get beat. All others we outscore our opponents.

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:sims has like two good games and the HukMania stopped?

Hulk just needs a bit more time to learn the rest of the playbook, and he busy fetching coffee and whatnot anyway

He did put the fear of getting benched in Sims, it seems. As others have suggested, the Knicks might also not want to give other teams interest in Huk by the first trade deadline.

What does that even mean?

They can also just not trade Huk.

He messed up explaining but I think he is going by what they did with McBride. Keep their minutes down until you get them on the long term contract at a good price. They tried it with iHart but Mitch could not stay healthy long enough to allow them. Agents are not going to allow their players to sign those 3 years min/low money deals as readily as in the past. So by keeping their minutes down you stop teams from knowing how good they are and poaching them before we get their full bird rights like OKC did to iHart.

Your focus is off. They are trying to develop the players correctly. This is not about future contract moves, although I’m sure there may be instances of examples of that sort of thing out there in the NBA, not for these Knicks though.

The players play when they do the right things in practice first and know where to be, when to be there, and what to do on counters, both their team’s own counters (offense) and the opponents (defense). It’s a gigantic learning curve, HUGE. Even fast learners like Kobe, Nash, and others, it took them years to adjust and get up to speed and generally find their game within a team concept, no less hit a rookie wall of sorts for new guys.

Thibs has literally told us this over and over and over again in the press conferences.

One of THE hardest things to do when you jump levels is learning your opponents and learning the base level of what your team’s playbook is. The quickest way to get up to speed of the league is through video - watching game film and literally watching opponents up close, and then playing against them in the right environment, ie. bite sized minutes with vets around you. And that’s because you want to create environments of success, both for your team and the individual player.

Player contracts are sorted out after those things take place. By then, you fail out like Reddish, or you flourish when the time is right and your name is called like iHart and Deuce.

In the cause of Huk, he is already a RFA for the Knicks this offseason, they got him on lockdown.

They did it with IQ, McBride, Grimes, Reddish, Sims, Mitch, iHart, everyone that is not above a certain talent level. They had to EARN it within the teams arc of the season and where a team is within their own playoff hunt and prospects.

Thats the culture the Knicks have put in place.

Usually a very harsh critic

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toodarkmark wrote:I think Josh Hart is playing All Star basketball, so I don’t see he should be sent to the second unit. He’s like our Draymond Green at SG. Im all about trading Mitchell Robinson for someone, but other GMa know how fragile he is too.

Agree. He has really stepped it up this year and he was tremendous last season.