Giving up a ton of offensive baords and the inability to guard the pick n roll are the main reasons we lost this game. Also, how many times have we watched teams hunt Brunson on defense and force the Knicks to scramble? Not sure we we weren't hunting Trey and forcing him to guard the ball? We allowed their best defender, Dyson, to be involved in too many defensive plays. That is on Thibs.
Very disappointing. This team is so frustrating.
Whatever…
GustavBahler wrote:Hawks beat Cavs and Celtics on the road, so its not just about our D. This is a game where we could have used Mitch, or maybe Huk.As grating as it is losing to Trae and company, its good to have real rivals. Young looked less frenetic out there, less Kamikaze, more in control.
When Brunson wants to be a floor general, he's a damned good one. The more we see that part of his game, the better.
Definitely still need work on D, and improve our bottom of the league bench scoring. Hopefully Precious will eventually help in that dept, but I still think the FO needs to make a move before the first trade deadline.
Rivals only in our delusional minds right now. The Hawks and Trae own us. Whenever they actually decide to show up and respond, you could argue that. But right now the Knicks are no real match against the big boys, and like it or not, they made the Hawks look like that today. The Knicks are a nice-looking pretending team right now. This inconsistency on defense is beyond an adjustment period, is more like who they are for this year unless Mitch magically changes that and honestly, I don’t have my hopes up.
Missed the game live due to the annual neighborhood Xmas party. What a turd show. The F'in refs were despicable. But that isn't why we lost. We should have had a much bigger lead in the 1st half, missed bunnies, too many missed wide-open 3s, poor paint defense, rebounds were a joke, and FTs, AGAIN. How about Thibs tell someone like OG STOP shooting 3s on a night like tonight?
Hawks shot a split of 41/29/65 and once they took the lead we never threatened to win the game, disgusting effort. Knicks won 3 of 4 quarters, but that 3rd was a disaster. Payne, Deuce, Mikal, and OG were 4-24 from 3, for 17%. A team usually can't win with shooting like tonight, except for all those dunks and floaters, they actually shot even worse than the Knicks. Size was a big problem, but the D scheme wasn't a good game plan as usual. Wasted 3 hours to see us get punked.
I'm hating the continued BS calls(again at MSG), but KAT & Hart have to stop letting it lead to fouls on the other end the next play because they are pissed.
Umm, the bright spots, maybe Towns 19 & 19 but -11, Hart efficiency, and I wasn't impressed with anything else. Deuce and Cam haven't played well since their return and that is a problem for bench flowing. 8 steals and 11 blocks should usually be a win.
Easily a winnable game, another loss that sux to take.
LivingLegend wrote:Clean wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Hawks beat Cavs and Celtics on the road, so its not just about our D. This is a game where we could have used Mitch, or maybe Huk.As grating as it is losing to Trae and company, its good to have real rivals. Young looked less frenetic out there, less Kamikaze, more in control.
When Brunson wants to be a floor general, he's a damned good one. The more we see that part of his game, the better.
Definitely still need work on D, and improve our bottom of the league bench scoring. Hopefully Precious will eventually help in that dept, but I still think the FO needs to make a move before the first trade deadline.
Our D has been bad the whole season. People forget how bad it is because we played a ton of bad and injured teams. We had the best ever offense and so many games can't get seperation because we can't get stops.
THIS +100 ——— D has been a sieve all year even with good overall metrics.
This team is starting to remind me of probably the most talented Knick team in history with Frazier/Monroe/McMillan/Heywood/McAdoo that went nowhere and couldn’t stop a 2 year old from getting to the rim and just didn’t seem to care.
Thought the bolded said as much.
Knicksfan wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Hawks beat Cavs and Celtics on the road, so its not just about our D. This is a game where we could have used Mitch, or maybe Huk.As grating as it is losing to Trae and company, its good to have real rivals. Young looked less frenetic out there, less Kamikaze, more in control.
When Brunson wants to be a floor general, he's a damned good one. The more we see that part of his game, the better.
Definitely still need work on D, and improve our bottom of the league bench scoring. Hopefully Precious will eventually help in that dept, but I still think the FO needs to make a move before the first trade deadline.
Rivals only in our delusional minds right now. The Hawks and Trae own us. Whenever they actually decide to show up and respond, you could argue that. But right now the Knicks are no real match against the big boys, and like it or not, they made the Hawks look like that today. The Knicks are a nice-looking pretending team right now. This inconsistency on defense is beyond an adjustment period, is more like who they are for this year unless Mitch magically changes that and honestly, I don’t have my hopes up.
Last 2 seasons we finished ahead in the standings, won one more game vs. the Hawks, so I wouldnt call it a delusion to say that there is a rivalry. Too early to hit the panic buttom.
GustavBahler wrote:Knicksfan wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Hawks beat Cavs and Celtics on the road, so its not just about our D. This is a game where we could have used Mitch, or maybe Huk.As grating as it is losing to Trae and company, its good to have real rivals. Young looked less frenetic out there, less Kamikaze, more in control.
When Brunson wants to be a floor general, he's a damned good one. The more we see that part of his game, the better.
Definitely still need work on D, and improve our bottom of the league bench scoring. Hopefully Precious will eventually help in that dept, but I still think the FO needs to make a move before the first trade deadline.
Rivals only in our delusional minds right now. The Hawks and Trae own us. Whenever they actually decide to show up and respond, you could argue that. But right now the Knicks are no real match against the big boys, and like it or not, they made the Hawks look like that today. The Knicks are a nice-looking pretending team right now. This inconsistency on defense is beyond an adjustment period, is more like who they are for this year unless Mitch magically changes that and honestly, I don’t have my hopes up.
Last 2 seasons we finished ahead in the standings, won one more game vs. the Hawks, so I wouldnt call it a delusion to say that there is a rivalry. Too early to hit the panic buttom.
Well, this is practically a new team and the two times they have played the Hawks, not only have they lost at home, but have been trolled in the process. This season they have proved to be no match for Atlanta and not care one bit about the disrespect shown their way. So, no, it doesn’t look like a rivalry. When the Knicks actually show up, maybe.
And I don’t even think it’s a panic button on this team. If this year is about being decent and making the playoffs, this team has enough talent to get that done unless an injury really derails them. But they also don’t seem to have the right plan and execution on defense, the right focus from game to game, and the right mindset to be the championship contenders they have been hyped up to be. This team is good but flawed in ways that I’m not sure can be fixed this year, so a decent season and maybe a playoff win might be in store, but hard to see more. I guess that’s ok.
GustavBahler wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Clean wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Hawks beat Cavs and Celtics on the road, so its not just about our D. This is a game where we could have used Mitch, or maybe Huk.As grating as it is losing to Trae and company, its good to have real rivals. Young looked less frenetic out there, less Kamikaze, more in control.
When Brunson wants to be a floor general, he's a damned good one. The more we see that part of his game, the better.
Definitely still need work on D, and improve our bottom of the league bench scoring. Hopefully Precious will eventually help in that dept, but I still think the FO needs to make a move before the first trade deadline.
Our D has been bad the whole season. People forget how bad it is because we played a ton of bad and injured teams. We had the best ever offense and so many games can't get seperation because we can't get stops.
THIS +100 ——— D has been a sieve all year even with good overall metrics.
This team is starting to remind me of probably the most talented Knick team in history with Frazier/Monroe/McMillan/Heywood/McAdoo that went nowhere and couldn’t stop a 2 year old from getting to the rim and just didn’t seem to care.
Thought the bolded said as much.
Just because I reply does not mean I disagree. I will say if I disagree. Sometimes I agree so much I need to add my input. I mean you know how much I hate Thibs defense and I always reply to people when they finally see the light on why we give up so many open 3's.
Thibs defense works better with a defensive center that can protect the paint so perimeter defenders can switch all over. We will be fine once Mitch comes back defensive wise
We neeed a natural PF that can defend and shoot. I think teams have figured out playing with Josh Hart.
NYKBocker wrote:Thibs defense works better with a defensive center that can protect the paint so perimeter defenders can switch all over. We will be fine once Mitch comes back defensive wise
Rest Mitch until the playoffs. Seriously
TheMTL wrote:Philc1 wrote:Games like this make me realize Mitch should rest the entire season so we have him available and healthy for the playoffs
Perhaps because We need Mitch more than ever. He's absolutely necessary
The hawks love playing us without Mitch
Tv ratings are down 28% part of the reason is viewers know the refs are now an entire of Tim Donaghys rigging Al the games for Vegas. Lebron has averaged 1.5 fouls per game his career. KAT gets hacked, shoved, poked and there’s never a call but he is always in danger of fouling out. KAT is a superstar in this league the refs need to start treating I’m as such
NYKBocker wrote:Thibs defense works better with a defensive center that can protect the paint so perimeter defenders can switch all over. We will be fine once Mitch comes back defensive wise
Anybody’s defense works better when you have defensive players. But how much of a hit will we take on offense? It’s a tricky balance!
Knicksfan wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knicksfan wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Hawks beat Cavs and Celtics on the road, so its not just about our D. This is a game where we could have used Mitch, or maybe Huk.As grating as it is losing to Trae and company, its good to have real rivals. Young looked less frenetic out there, less Kamikaze, more in control.
When Brunson wants to be a floor general, he's a damned good one. The more we see that part of his game, the better.
Definitely still need work on D, and improve our bottom of the league bench scoring. Hopefully Precious will eventually help in that dept, but I still think the FO needs to make a move before the first trade deadline.
Rivals only in our delusional minds right now. The Hawks and Trae own us. Whenever they actually decide to show up and respond, you could argue that. But right now the Knicks are no real match against the big boys, and like it or not, they made the Hawks look like that today. The Knicks are a nice-looking pretending team right now. This inconsistency on defense is beyond an adjustment period, is more like who they are for this year unless Mitch magically changes that and honestly, I don’t have my hopes up.
Last 2 seasons we finished ahead in the standings, won one more game vs. the Hawks, so I wouldnt call it a delusion to say that there is a rivalry. Too early to hit the panic buttom.
Well, this is practically a new team and the two times they have played the Hawks, not only have they lost at home, but have been trolled in the process. This season they have proved to be no match for Atlanta and not care one bit about the disrespect shown their way. So, no, it doesn’t look like a rivalry. When the Knicks actually show up, maybe.
And I don’t even think it’s a panic button on this team. If this year is about being decent and making the playoffs, this team has enough talent to get that done unless an injury really derails them. But they also don’t seem to have the right plan and execution on defense, the right focus from game to game, and the right mindset to be the championship contenders they have been hyped up to be. This team is good but flawed in ways that I’m not sure can be fixed this year, so a decent season and maybe a playoff win might be in store, but hard to see more. I guess that’s ok.
Rivalries are measured in seasons, years, sometimes we have their number, sometimes they have ours. Im more concerned with our bench scoring, than our D. As you mentioned, we have new additions. but two of the three starters we added are defensive specialists.
There is still time for the D to get sorted, maybe less drop back coverage. As well as Mitch coming back will help with the D. They might not drop back as much knowing that Mitch will be there as the last line of defense.
Mitch's offensive rebounds will also help pick up the pace. We would have the best defensive backup in the league when healthy.
Normally I wouldn't care that much about a game in December but ngl this one hurt. I know the Cup isn't a real championship either but it's something. Most disappointing loss of the season imo. If this was an early season midterm we failed.
I can accept losing. It happens. I cannot accept getting outworked and embarrassed at home and most of all allowing Trae Young to stomp and mock the logo. So disappointing that nobody bothered to get in his face too.
We got destroyed in the second half and outrebounded 58 to 49 and that includes 22 offensive rebounds. The refs were absolutely awful highlighted by that ugly woman. Even Thibs singled this crew out which he never does. This is the same crew that screwed us in Houston last season which I'm sure the NBA loves.
Dyson Daniels is the OG of guards. I want nothing to do with Atlanta in the playoffs if I'm being honest. They have our number.
When Mitch comes back our defense will be glorious for three games!
BTW coming into this game Atlanta was the worst in the NBA in 3pt defense by FG%. We shot 11/42 from 3 and had plenty of looks. Our defense wasn't amazing, but we held the Hawks to 108 when they came in averaging over 116 and among the fastest pace in the NBA. The scored because they were able to smoke us on the offensive boards or we could've easily held them under 100. We definitely didn't make the shots they gave us.
Thibs also calling out Jacyn Goble - that dude definitely put his whistle in his pocket at some point. There was a pretty absurd minute where Deuce got tackled and Anunoby get smacked in the face and we didn't see a whistle anywhere.
GustavBahler wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Clean wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Hawks beat Cavs and Celtics on the road, so its not just about our D. This is a game where we could have used Mitch, or maybe Huk.As grating as it is losing to Trae and company, its good to have real rivals. Young looked less frenetic out there, less Kamikaze, more in control.
When Brunson wants to be a floor general, he's a damned good one. The more we see that part of his game, the better.
Definitely still need work on D, and improve our bottom of the league bench scoring. Hopefully Precious will eventually help in that dept, but I still think the FO needs to make a move before the first trade deadline.
Our D has been bad the whole season. People forget how bad it is because we played a ton of bad and injured teams. We had the best ever offense and so many games can't get seperation because we can't get stops.
THIS +100 ——— D has been a sieve all year even with good overall metrics.
This team is starting to remind me of probably the most talented Knick team in history with Frazier/Monroe/McMillan/Heywood/McAdoo that went nowhere and couldn’t stop a 2 year old from getting to the rim and just didn’t seem to care.
Thought the bolded said as much.
YES - I'm basically in agreement with you...100%.
JesseDark wrote:We neeed a natural PF that can defend and shoot. I think teams have figured out playing with Josh Hart.
Was going to post on Hart last night and stopped myself because I'd already whined enough but a new day and some additional whining.
While Hart has received many accolades thus far this year for his high shooting %s, his rebounding and his solid assist #s I have been severely underwhelmed with everything he does defensively. He did a lot of the same stuff last year (he and Donte gambled all the time and often lost).
- His on ball D has been non-existent
- guys (1-4) blow by him like he's not even there
- he's constantly gambling (ex anticipating a guy is going to dribble right but guy blows by him with left hand)
- he's losing cutters all the time
- he's often late/lost on rotations (see Julius Randle)
- he doesn't seemed locked in and/or fully serious sometimes
It looks like he's worked on and probably still working extra time on his shooting (is the poor D the consequence of extra shooting)?
Overall he's the type of guy that makes wow plays - be it a big rebound, a length of court dribble for and and 1 bucket or a timely 3 BUT he's not moving laterally defensively and he's not locked in off ball or on rotations.
He's better than this but doesn't fully seem to care.
From beginning of camp I didn't think Hart's best role was +35 minutes with starters. I think we are best served with a better defender/ball handler as the 5th guy or a longer rim protector (Precious) who also defends. For me I think best Josh hart is energizer bunny off bench for 28-32 minutes a night an NO GUARANTEE that he finishes game unless defense is on point.
