Knicks · GameThread: NBA Cup Quarters against Atlanta on ESPN, MSG at 7pm (page 6)

JesseDark wrote:We neeed a natural PF that can defend and shoot. I think teams have figured out playing with Josh Hart.

Was going to post on Hart last night and stopped myself because I'd already whined enough but a new day and some additional whining.

While Hart has received many accolades thus far this year for his high shooting %s, his rebounding and his solid assist #s I have been severely underwhelmed with everything he does defensively. He did a lot of the same stuff last year (he and Donte gambled all the time and often lost).

- His on ball D has been non-existent
- guys (1-4) blow by him like he's not even there
- he's constantly gambling (ex anticipating a guy is going to dribble right but guy blows by him with left hand)
- he's losing cutters all the time
- he's often late/lost on rotations (see Julius Randle)
- he doesn't seemed locked in and/or fully serious sometimes

It looks like he's worked on and probably still working extra time on his shooting (is the poor D the consequence of extra shooting)?

Overall he's the type of guy that makes wow plays - be it a big rebound, a length of court dribble for and and 1 bucket or a timely 3 BUT he's not moving laterally defensively and he's not locked in off ball or on rotations.

He's better than this but doesn't fully seem to care.

From beginning of camp I didn't think Hart's best role was +35 minutes with starters. I think we are best served with a better defender/ball handler as the 5th guy or a longer rim protector (Precious) who also defends. For me I think best Josh hart is energizer bunny off bench for 28-32 minutes a night an NO GUARANTEE that he finishes game unless defense is on point.

NYKBocker wrote:Thibs defense works better with a defensive center that can protect the paint so perimeter defenders can switch all over. We will be fine once Mitch comes back defensive wise

And there goes your floor spreading and high-end offense -- at least until Mitch comes up lame 5 minutes into 2nd game.

VDesai wrote:BTW coming into this game Atlanta was the worst in the NBA in 3pt defense by FG%. We shot 11/42 from 3 and had plenty of looks. Our defense wasn't amazing, but we held the Hawks to 108 when they came in averaging over 116 and among the fastest pace in the NBA. The scored because they were able to smoke us on the offensive boards or we could've easily held them under 100. We definitely didn't make the shots they gave us.

Thibs also calling out Jacyn Goble - that dude definitely put his whistle in his pocket at some point. There was a pretty absurd minute where Deuce got tackled and Anunoby get smacked in the face and we didn't see a whistle anywhere.

Yes - crazy how sucky shooting and mindless decisions with the ball can lose you a game like last night.

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:BTW coming into this game Atlanta was the worst in the NBA in 3pt defense by FG%. We shot 11/42 from 3 and had plenty of looks. Our defense wasn't amazing, but we held the Hawks to 108 when they came in averaging over 116 and among the fastest pace in the NBA. The scored because they were able to smoke us on the offensive boards or we could've easily held them under 100. We definitely didn't make the shots they gave us.

Thibs also calling out Jacyn Goble - that dude definitely put his whistle in his pocket at some point. There was a pretty absurd minute where Deuce got tackled and Anunoby get smacked in the face and we didn't see a whistle anywhere.

Yes - crazy how sucky shooting and mindless decisions with the ball can lose you a game like last night.

This team has average athleticism and sub-par depth. It needs to be smart with the ball and relatively turnover free to compete with good teams. Outside of OG and McBride/Hart at times, we don't really have the type of guys who can still make defensive plays even when they're out of position. The Jalen Johnson types. It usually takes a while for a team to develop that type of discipline and that's why we shouldn't expect to be serious contenders this season. It took Cleveland years. Boston developed it quickly, but they had guys like Smart and Holiday to help quarterback their D.

BigDaddyG wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:BTW coming into this game Atlanta was the worst in the NBA in 3pt defense by FG%. We shot 11/42 from 3 and had plenty of looks. Our defense wasn't amazing, but we held the Hawks to 108 when they came in averaging over 116 and among the fastest pace in the NBA. The scored because they were able to smoke us on the offensive boards or we could've easily held them under 100. We definitely didn't make the shots they gave us.

Thibs also calling out Jacyn Goble - that dude definitely put his whistle in his pocket at some point. There was a pretty absurd minute where Deuce got tackled and Anunoby get smacked in the face and we didn't see a whistle anywhere.

Yes - crazy how sucky shooting and mindless decisions with the ball can lose you a game like last night.

This team has average athleticism and sub-par depth. It needs to be smart with the ball and relatively turnover free to compete with good teams. Outside of OG and McBride/Hart at times, we don't really have the type of guys who can still make defensive plays even when they're out of position. The Jalen Johnson types. It usually takes a while for a team to develop that type of discipline and that's why we shouldn't expect to be serious contenders this season. It took Cleveland years. Boston developed it quickly, but they had guys like Smart and Holiday to help quarterback their D.

Speaking of Smart -- he's the type of player that could both improve our point of attack D on ball handler out front, allow Jalen to move off the ball some more, run our 2nd unit and boost our overall team toughness.

BigDaddyG wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VDesai wrote:BTW coming into this game Atlanta was the worst in the NBA in 3pt defense by FG%. We shot 11/42 from 3 and had plenty of looks. Our defense wasn't amazing, but we held the Hawks to 108 when they came in averaging over 116 and among the fastest pace in the NBA. The scored because they were able to smoke us on the offensive boards or we could've easily held them under 100. We definitely didn't make the shots they gave us.

Thibs also calling out Jacyn Goble - that dude definitely put his whistle in his pocket at some point. There was a pretty absurd minute where Deuce got tackled and Anunoby get smacked in the face and we didn't see a whistle anywhere.

Yes - crazy how sucky shooting and mindless decisions with the ball can lose you a game like last night.

This team has average athleticism and sub-par depth. It needs to be smart with the ball and relatively turnover free to compete with good teams. Outside of OG and McBride/Hart at times, we don't really have the type of guys who can still make defensive plays even when they're out of position. The Jalen Johnson types. It usually takes a while for a team to develop that type of discipline and that's why we shouldn't expect to be serious contenders this season. It took Cleveland years. Boston developed it quickly, but they had guys like Smart and Holiday to help quarterback their D.

We made so many bone head offensive plays early that allowed Hawks to stay in a game where we could have been up 12-20 points at half.

Just so many execution and mental lapses for a rotation stuffed with solid veteran players.

Mikal hasn't really disrupted games defensively with his length. Its been on and off, but I think the idea of having OG/Mikal was to have absolutely disruptive wing length. He is still getting comfortable with his role in the defense. We are seeing that from some other teams, but not really happening the way it should from us. Even OG, sometimes he does things really slowly despite the fact that he's pretty explosive.

I don't think we're unathletic, but there's something deliberate about the way we play and we seem to have spurts or moments of games where we disrupt passing lanes or get our hands on the ball. Maybe its something to do with the minutes distribution and conserving energy.

If I had to pick what we need in trade I would say a rangy wing who can play 3/4 would be ideal. Conserve OG/Hart/Mikal more.

Divo and Hartenstein were high motor guys that were usually 2/5 of what was out there and its definitely missed.

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Perfect PF next to Kat.

VDesai wrote:Mikal hasn't really disrupted games defensively with his length. Its been on and off, but I think the idea of having OG/Mikal was to have absolutely disruptive wing length. He is still getting comfortable with his role in the defense. We are seeing that from some other teams, but not really happening the way it should from us. Even OG, sometimes he does things really slowly despite the fact that he's pretty explosive.

I don't think we're unathletic, but there's something deliberate about the way we play and we seem to have spurts or moments of games where we disrupt passing lanes or get our hands on the ball. Maybe its something to do with the minutes distribution and conserving energy.

If I had to pick what we need in trade I would say a rangy wing who can play 3/4 would be ideal. Conserve OG/Hart/Mikal more.

Divo and Hartenstein were high motor guys that were usually 2/5 of what was out there and its definitely missed.

We have one athlete- OG. Everyone else is one step faster or slower than past his prime Larry Bird. Kat thinks he is better off the dribble than he is. Jalen is making do with average athletic skills. McBride is limping on one leg. Mikal is a shell of whatever player he used to be. Josh is great for one or two full court dribble lay ups- but after that.

KAT is a pretty incredible athlete for his size, with an explosive first step. I have never seen a 7 foot, 250lb + player who so easily takes people off the dribble all the way to the basket the way he does.

Josh is a good athlete but he's 6'4" matching up with big dudes and just out muscled occasionally. Mikal has not had the level of impact I would have guessed given his elite wingspan and reputation.

It would absolutely help to have another rangy wing come off the bench. A Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniels type. Someone like Ziare Williams or Noah Clowney from the Nets would be interesting.

Clean wrote:

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Perfect PF next to Kat.

What's standing out about that chart is the player we have defending the rim the most in terms of volume is Josh Hart. That's not a great place for a defense to be to have a 6'4 215 guy be your last line of defense.

VDesai wrote:KAT is a pretty incredible athlete for his size, with an explosive first step. I have never seen a 7 foot, 250lb + player who so easily takes people off the dribble all the way to the basket the way he does.

Josh is a good athlete but he's 6'4" matching up with big dudes and just out muscled occasionally. Mikal has not had the level of impact I would have guessed given his elite wingspan and reputation.

It would absolutely help to have another rangy wing come off the bench. A Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniels type. Someone like Ziare Williams or Noah Clowney from the Nets would be interesting.

I'd describe KAT as more smooth athletically. I don't see him exploding athletically like Giannis. I think his first step which is good, is more of a product of his threat as an outside shooter.

Thibs is given the business too

martin wrote:Thibs is given the business too

I wonder what he thinks about Thibs though.

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Clean wrote:

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After having ihart last season this makes me sick. How much rebounds was that?

Where is boxing out? We have like 4 guys under the rim and NO ONE boxes ANYONE out.

Achiuwa makes 3 spectacular shot contests here which puts him out of rebounding position. Josh Hart fails to box out 4 times and the man behind him gets the ball each time.

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:Thibs is given the business too

I wonder what he thinks about Thibs though.

Is there a defense for this? I know we got new guys, some like Kat with less than stellar defensive pedigrees.

Am I wrong to want Thibs fired after watching this video?

Clean wrote:

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I dont believe that Thibs is on the hot seat. At the same time, if its another second round exit in the postseason, Im guessing that the FO will consider alternatives. Especially if fatigue looks like it was a factor.

franco12 wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:Thibs is given the business too

I wonder what he thinks about Thibs though.

Is there a defense for this? I know we got new guys, some like Kat with less than stellar defensive pedigrees.

Am I wrong to want Thibs fired after watching this video?

perfect fan reaction to fire the coach that resurrected your franchise. Hardest part of the schedule and we are on pace to win 50 games. Who you thinking? Doc Rivers? Rick Carlisle? We deserve better than Thibs!

Clean wrote:

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Perfect PF next to Kat.

OG is the only Knick not on that chart? Meaning the entire team is sharing the load of contesting at the rim? With the number of attempts exceeding other teams in actual attempts at the rim?