LivingLegend wrote:Knicksfan wrote:LivingLegend wrote:WP76 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.WP76 wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?
Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.
The refs were a factor.
. I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.
Knew it was going to be one of their scrubs that would go for career night.
I actually like Wiggins but by no means for his offense.
A magic trick called playing your bench. It’s something unseen around here, unfortunately.
You would have taken Jalen.Josh.Mikal.OG or Towns out in the 4th for Cam/Shamet/Precious?
I don't understand your argument. Wiggins was playing because rest of OKC was choking - our front line wasn't choking - they weren't getting the ball.
My argument is not just about this game, but the result of game after game of relying solely on the starters. We have a team without a significant bench and whenever teams adjust to our gameplay, we have nothing to counter with. Not an adjustment from the coach, from the starters or from a bench that’s never relied on.
I agree with the details on the mistakes we made. But this game fully showed me why we will probably not even end with a decent record against the big teams in the league: Thibs and the coaching staff didn’t care about developing the bench from the start, and now we have a team limited to its starters and unless anyone has a historic night, we can be stopped when it matters while a better rounded team will run us out of the court.
The way we lost the 4th quarter is embarrassing. Yet we kept the starters there, playing like crap, just waiting to get the game done. This team has a new level to reach to actually compete with the best, but I wonder if they are capable of that.
We did ourselves a huge disservice not developing the talent we already have on the bench. Are they limited in some areas? Yes. Do they make mistakes? Yes. But fudge, they are still talented and capable of giving us a different look and a change of pace. It makes a difference in the 4th whatever significant they get in the earlier quarters.
Has anyone forgotten our first game against Cleveland? It was almost the same situation. The Knicks are good, but today was another reminder that we might not be able to join the best teams because of how poorly we have developed our bench and how poorly we adjust during games.
fitzfarm wrote:That was the most manufactured win and Bull shit calls I’ve seen all year .::
But good to know we are the clear better team..just absolute horse shit home team calls to keep them in the game … honestly if we are home we win by 20
We don’t get “home” calls at home either.
And honestly, we have so far failed against the elite teams and today was another proof. We are the better team? Not yet. Not at all. We collapsed on the 4th and neither the starters could right the ship, nor Thibs could change anything with a substitution.
We have a marvelous starting lineup that can be strategically stopped by the best teams. After that, we have nothing else. So we are very limited this year unless a change in philosophy opens things up.
Again biggest manufactured win for the thunder … they hammered us with no whistle so they could get back on top… hole game if they called that we would be throwing bottles on the court .
That was total bull shit … we won this game from a skill standpoint…. We were clearly the better team… that was trash and the refs are to blame for the loss
Cleveland can’t lose no matter what and even shorthanded Boston’s D gets them a win against a good Rockets team.
We just aren’t in that league yet. Sucks but without a bench, we will remain on the outside. Those teams are solid basically from top to bottom.
It’s one of those games your like what we crushed them on All aspects of the game but we lost !??! What ? A clear ref won game for the. Thunder lol the NBA is a joke
Knicksfan wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Knicksfan wrote:LivingLegend wrote:WP76 wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.WP76 wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?
Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.
The refs were a factor.
. I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.
Knew it was going to be one of their scrubs that would go for career night.
I actually like Wiggins but by no means for his offense.
A magic trick called playing your bench. It’s something unseen around here, unfortunately.
You would have taken Jalen.Josh.Mikal.OG or Towns out in the 4th for Cam/Shamet/Precious?
I don't understand your argument. Wiggins was playing because rest of OKC was choking - our front line wasn't choking - they weren't getting the ball.
My argument is not just about this game, but the result of game after game of relying solely on the starters. We have a team without a significant bench and whenever teams adjust to our gameplay, we have nothing to counter with. Not an adjustment from the coach, from the starters or from a bench that’s never relied on.
I agree with the details on the mistakes we made. But this game fully showed me why we will probably not even end with a decent record against the big teams in the league: Thibs and the coaching staff didn’t care about developing the bench from the start, and now we have a team limited to its starters and unless anyone has a historic night, we can be stopped when it matters while a better rounded team will run us out of the court.
The way we lost the 4th quarter is embarrassing. Yet we kept the starters there, playing like crap, just waiting to get the game done. This team has a new level to reach to actually compete with the best, but I wonder if they are capable of that.
We did ourselves a huge disservice not developing the talent we already have on the bench. Are they limited in some areas? Yes. Do they make mistakes? Yes. But fudge, they are still talented and capable of giving us a different look and a change of pace. It makes a difference in the 4th whatever significant they get in the earlier quarters.
Has anyone forgotten our first game against Cleveland? It was almost the same situation. The Knicks are good, but today was another reminder that we might not be able to join the best teams because of how poorly we have developed our bench and how poorly we adjust during games.
The bold is why I always have to be the voice of reason when we have a stretch vs bad/injured teams. People on twitter like Tommy Beer likes to have circle jerks with stats but leaves out critical context that the month was all bad teams and the only good team was the Magic who was severly injured. After awhile I take a break from forums and social media debates because I always feel like a downer but I just state the truth that may be hard for some fans to admit.
If Thibs uses his bench, we lose. Not embarrassing.
Ours is not good enough at this point. Shamet is getting there. I like precious. His offense? its why Toronto gave up on him. He not that good.
Defense, rebounding for his size is good.
OG had a great game but he is being over played.
Our starters lost their legs. We were winning the game.
They are scarey good. And........Caruso was not playing, Chet is not playing, They have picks, yoot, depth.......
Calls? Brunson is 2nd in attracting fouls. He was not superman tonite. Tired, his leg hurt? etc,
Towns hurt his neck the other night. I did not see contact on it when he got hurt. That has me worried.
OG was not the same after the fall offensively.
The Wiggins got hot. thats what depth does.
If we don't get the roster right this team will have injury issues. Its not criminal, its Thibs using what he got.
Its why some of you are are frustrated on what can be.
We only missing Deuce tonite.
And now, Herb Jones for For Mitch is not a fair trade.
LivingLegend wrote:ISO Jalen took us out of flow completely and basically voided Kat in 2nd half.Mentioned earlier - hopefully no career games from OKC role player and wouldn't you know WIGGINS.
As I turn this one off I'm thinking our most talented player and most difficult match-up for OKC (KAT) was basically ignored most of the game.
Yep, they had Williams and Dort on him the whole game, while Hartenstein was on Hart which enabled him to roam. We never took advantage
Tough loss. Jalen kind of killed us down the stretch but the whole team looked exhausted. Really needed Deuce to eat 25-30 mins in a game like that. We need a bench forward who can fill it up and play some defense badly. Trade Mitch and get it done please. OG looks like he's gonna melt soon.
OKC has the best defensive rating since 2004 and is on track to be the first team ever with more steals than turnovers. They are a historically good defensive team. They take everyone off their game. I'm proud of the way we fought last night tbh, we proved we belong. We have a chance to get them back at home next week.
Brunson missing like 7 shots in a row seemed to be the kicker for me. Gave them real
Momentum.
winnable game, thats all you can ask for.
OKC is the best and hottest team in the league and nearly unbeatable at home, we had them by the ropes but couldn't finish it off. Needed a bit better game from Brunson, he'll get em next time.
That missed three at the half, followed by the quick OKC bucket was a big swing.
Props to OKC for being a great team.
Props to Thibs for saving the best strategies for the playoffs. 😏
iHart is one of the most impactful players in the league. He's earning that bloated paycheck.
Frustrating loss to say the least. We're now 0-3 in these highlighted games (season opener @ Boston, tournament vs Atlanta and last night).
The lack of depth really showed and was exposed. Not sure how we can correct that this season or at the deadline. We have an elite if not the best starting lineup in the league but the bench is really lacking especially without Deuce. Maybe next season guys like Kolek and Pacome will be more ready to contribute. Not having Mitch also hurts cause all OKC did was take it strong to the hole and we don't have the rim protection.
The zebras aren't the reason we lost but that Ben Johnson was so biased and made it all about him. I hate it when refs feel the need to be included in big games. Like they need to make their presence known. And it was such an inconsistent officiated game that even Breen and Hahn kept talking about it. This is the 3rd straight game Hart was given a T by that zebra. And he only told him to "wake up". Just ridiculous.
We outplayed them for 36 minutes and proved we can play with the elite so there is something to take from this game but we need to learn how to finish. We got outscored 37-19 in the 4th. We stopped doing what got us the lead for some strange reason. The ball was moving and went into JB iso ball for some reason. I don't mind JB iso ball if he's having one of those crazy games but last night was not it. And KAT only had 2 shots in the 4th which cannot happen especially when an undersized guy is on him. That Wiggins guy had the game of his life and had four 3s in the 4th. They got all the loose balls and some led to crushing 3s.
Relieved that OG was ok after that nasty fall. We get a rematch next Friday at the Garden.
ToddTT wrote:iHart is one of the most impactful players in the league. He's earning that bloated paycheck.
Made all the clutch little plays to help his team win.
Okc defense is a bit like Orlando only with better talent
Refs could blow the whistle 5 times on every possession. More fouls than refs
I got the sense the refs knew this too and were frustrated knowing they can’t call all the fouls without destroying the game. Made for lots of inconsistency when they tried to reign things in
fitzfarm wrote:It’s one of those games your like what we crushed them on All aspects of the game but we lost !??! What ? A clear ref won game for the. Thunder lol the NBA is a joke
Before we go using the refs as scapegoats, who did suck, let’s not pretend that the struggles with teams double teaming JB did not also happen last year in the playoffs. And against elite teams. We just do not have an answer. Yes, Brunson has to work on that. And he had a bad game. He shot 9 of 23. 0 for 5 from three. When your alleged best player does that, you lose. Not to mention his two other wings going 6-23 from 3. And Bridges, who was incredible in first half disappeared in second.
However, there should be some blame on our coaching staff. It’s no secret elite teams have gone to shutting down JB first. Specifically by getting the ball out of JB’s the hands once he crosses the mid court. We don’t have offensive schemes to counter? And it’s not like last year against Indiana. We had highly paid good players with him last night. No excuse to have your $55 million dollar man only shoot 13 shots. You can’t get him an open three of a PnR?
Guess it’s just things they have to work on. As well as improving the bench. Hopefully done once they are all healthy.
Great game in the first half and a sign of what we can be.
But yeah, Fuck the refs too!
LivingLegend wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:This game is all on Thibs, OKC ran the same play 6 TIMES with zero adjustments and KAT was completely ignored while mainly guarded by Williams.
I don't know about that - we have 5 very veteran players on the court. They were the ones losing guys on D and it was Jalen ignoring Kat entire 4th quarter. We are best when he is distribution 1st and score 2nd.
I thought it was on Brunson; missed shots and some of them forced, didn’t navigate the doubles well, and he has control of O.
Quick turnaround. Have to bounce back and take a winnable game tonight in Chicago. These guys will be back at MSG soon enough
I’m so tired of this narrative that you have to wait until you have all stars on the bench too for it to be useful. FTS. That’s not what the current great teams are doing. They have actually been progressively playing decent players, mixing and matching with their current stars as they keep them both in rhythm and contributing. This idea that we have to keep the trading carousel going until you hit the jackpot for the bench is really misguided.
This team has a mixture of young talent and veteran talent. Key word: talent. Yes, these guys have shown that they can play in the NBA. Can they make mistakes and cost us games? Sure! Same applies for the starters, who are slowly being ran to the ground playing 40+ mins constantly. Payne and Kolek can certainly contribute more than 0-10mins they get. Sims is freaking alive for a few minutes in between also using Precious to spell Towns and OG. Same with Huk. Shamet is ramping up but he can definitely go up a few more minutes on his turns. Deuce being out hasn’t helped, true, but even with him available we’ve seen this discrepancy on minutes.
The thing is, I’m not arguing we need to run a full backup lineup out there for extended minutes. But there is no real strategy in using the bench wisely with some starters to change pace and give more responsibilities to the bench. This is a huge mistake that will prove terrible come playoff time. The same way we used the first 20-so games to get this starting lineup acclimated, the same needs to be done with the bench, yet it’s being seldomly used. I hate that from Thibs. We’ll keep falling behind the crop of the league if we keep having this limited mindset regarding the bench. No, you develop it just as OKC, Boston, Cleveland and Memphis have.
