Knicks · Game Thread：Knicks@Thunder in Biggest Game of the Season (page 11)

Alpha1971 wrote:

WP76 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.

WP76 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.

Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?

Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.

The refs were a factor.

.

I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.

Ok, not going to argue. I said it was a factor, among others. On to the next game. Wish we would use our bench more. Our guys will be gassed tomorrow. We need to trust the depth and preserve our players

We agree. What was ironic was the OKC announcers (who are "mid" at best) couldn't stop chirping about (1) how many uncalled fouls we were committing (2) how many uncalled travels Brunson had and (3) how the Knicks expect a foul to be called on every play when we're on offense. I also thought the refereeing strongly favored OKC but when you play like crap with the game on the line and let some scrub light you up, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Peace.

WP76 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

WP76 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.

WP76 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.

Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?

Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.

The refs were a factor.

.

I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.

Ok, not going to argue. I said it was a factor, among others. On to the next game. Wish we would use our bench more. Our guys will be gassed tomorrow. We need to trust the depth and preserve our players

We agree. What was ironic was the OKC announcers (who are "mid" at best) couldn't stop chirping about (1) how many uncalled fouls we were committing (2) how many uncalled travels Brunson had and (3) how the Knicks expect a foul to be called on every play when we're on offense. I also thought the refereeing strongly favored OKC but when you play like crap with the game on the line and let some scrub light you up, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Peace.

Clean wrote:If we used our bench enough for them to get a rhythm and they still consistantly were bad I would have no problem saying our bench is bad. However, I do have a problem with people saying our bench is bad when the bench barely plays. We have no idea what they are.

Same. It’s fair. And still, you have to run them out. They did the same with the starters which the early struggles. I just don’t understand how that process was applied only to the starting lineup like it’s so freaking impossible to work both at the same time?

I’m not saying I hate Thibs or anything close, but I’m really tired of the same issues with the bench. No matter who it is, it’s still the same abuse of the starting lineup. It’s shortsighted. The best teams will keep beating us because we are a freaking five-guys-band.

I’m pissed…

Knicksfan wrote:

Clean wrote:If we used our bench enough for them to get a rhythm and they still consistantly were bad I would have no problem saying our bench is bad. However, I do have a problem with people saying our bench is bad when the bench barely plays. We have no idea what they are.

Same. It’s fair. And still, you have to run them out. They did the same with the starters which the early struggles. I just don’t understand how that process was applied only to the starting lineup like it’s so freaking impossible to work both at the same time?

I’m not saying I hate Thibs or anything close, but I’m really tired of the same issues with the bench. No matter who it is, it’s still the same abuse of the starting lineup. It’s shortsighted. The best teams will keep beating us because we are a freaking five-guys-band.

I’m pissed…

We could be up 20 with 4 minutes to play and he still can't trust the bench to pull it out.

Knicksfan wrote:Long way to go, unfortunately.

And I’m almost at the point of believing it will be improbable without some change in the minutes distribution. This is unsustainable.

And to even lose by 10…

Ugh…

I don't believe minutes had ANYTHING to do with this loss - we just made poor plays/execution - I didn't see fatigue.

Long term YES I completely agree with you - Thibs may run the rims off 3 or 4 of our guys. He can't help himself.

Knicksfan wrote:

Clean wrote:If we used our bench enough for them to get a rhythm and they still consistantly were bad I would have no problem saying our bench is bad. However, I do have a problem with people saying our bench is bad when the bench barely plays. We have no idea what they are.

Same. It’s fair. And still, you have to run them out. They did the same with the starters which the early struggles. I just don’t understand how that process was applied only to the starting lineup like it’s so freaking impossible to work both at the same time?

I’m not saying I hate Thibs or anything close, but I’m really tired of the same issues with the bench. No matter who it is, it’s still the same abuse of the starting lineup. It’s shortsighted. The best teams will keep beating us because we are a freaking five-guys-band.

I’m pissed…

It took 2 1/2 yrs for Duece to get in Thibs circle of trust….Obi never made it..

This can’t continue…we can make it to the playoffs on one leg

martin wrote:Thought Precious gotta step up better, he had some chances

Yep = his offensive game has been offensive despite my love affair with the kid.

VDesai wrote:Brunson was out when we started the quarter and we went around 4 mins with only 1 made shot

Teams can trap and hack Brunson without fouls. So we get to 6 on the shot clock 30 feet outside the basket.

We needed to have Josh or someone else initiate the offense. They took us out of our game.

Another ACTUAL GUARD - I agree with your last line about initiating offense.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:Brunson was out when we started the quarter and we went around 4 mins with only 1 made shot

Teams can trap and hack Brunson without fouls. So we get to 6 on the shot clock 30 feet outside the basket.

We needed to have Josh or someone else initiate the offense. They took us out of our game.

Yep. And they gotta figure out how to get KAT more involved. Only 13 shots, the least of the starters along with OG

That disgusted me -- was yapping GET KAT THE BALL.

Swishfm3 wrote:This game is all on Thibs,

OKC ran the same play 6 TIMES with zero adjustments and KAT was completely ignored while mainly guarded by Williams.

I don't know about that - we have 5 very veteran players on the court. They were the ones losing guys on D and it was Jalen ignoring Kat entire 4th quarter. We are best when he is distribution 1st and score 2nd.

LivingLegend wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Long way to go, unfortunately.

And I’m almost at the point of believing it will be improbable without some change in the minutes distribution. This is unsustainable.

And to even lose by 10…

Ugh…

I don't believe minutes had ANYTHING to do with this loss - we just made poor plays/execution - I didn't see fatigue.

Long term YES I completely agree with you - Thibs may run the rims off 3 or 4 of our guys. He can't help himself.

You see whatever you want to see. If you think the bench playing such low minutes since the start of the season has nothing to do with us right now in the middle of the season not being able to trust anyone but the starters, I don’t know what to say.

Poor play from the starters one quarter after showing OKC how you are beating them is not being able to adjust to their adjustment. Yeah, but if you think the bench has nothing to do with changing your pace while you actually adjust to the opponent’s new strategy, then we are fudged with Thibs because this isn’t the first time nor the 30th that this has happened.

In-game adjustments and bench usage have always been issues Thibs has carried with him and they always show themselves when we play good teams. Boston, OKC, Cleveland and Memphis have great benches. Why? They have actually developed them by playing them. What did a guy like Wiggins do to us today? He teared us apart while bringing a change of pace, especially in the 4th where he was flawless. We can’t get anything like that at no point when it matters if we don’t start playing the freaking guys that we have who have the freaking talent to be there.

Fudge, this year’s run might end up coming up to that and that’s scary.

WP76 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.

WP76 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.

Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?

Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.

The refs were a factor.

.

I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.

Knew it was going to be one of their scrubs that would go for career night.

I actually like Wiggins but by no means for his offense.

Panos wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Mikal (AGAIN) 41 minutes, 19 shots and 0 FTs.

He doesn't like contact on O or D.

He did play great offensively and decently on D.

Sucks because that was a game we should have imposed our will on them down the stretch -- too many lazy/sloppy plays and decisions. OG gets swatted at rim it seems 50% of his attempts.

Mikal Totally disappeared in the second half. When Brunson is struggling, he needs to step up and put his stamp on it. He was hot the first half, should have kept it going the second.

The ball stopped and we sat outside dic*ing around with Jalen/Josh taking turns throwing it to the other team with Mikal/OG/Kat watching.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:Brunson was out when we started the quarter and we went around 4 mins with only 1 made shot

Teams can trap and hack Brunson without fouls. So we get to 6 on the shot clock 30 feet outside the basket.

We needed to have Josh or someone else initiate the offense. They took us out of our game.

Yep. And they gotta figure out how to get KAT more involved. Only 13 shots, the least of the starters along with OG

That disgusted me -- was yapping GET KAT THE BALL.

It makes no freaking sense!! And for it not to turn at any point, especially in the 4th. I mean, WTH are adjustments for Thibs? He has to see this happen and act accordingly.

LivingLegend wrote:

WP76 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.

WP76 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.

Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?

Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.

The refs were a factor.

.

I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.

Knew it was going to be one of their scrubs that would go for career night.

I actually like Wiggins but by no means for his offense.

A magic trick called playing your bench. It’s something unseen around here, unfortunately.

Knicksfan wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:Brunson was out when we started the quarter and we went around 4 mins with only 1 made shot

Teams can trap and hack Brunson without fouls. So we get to 6 on the shot clock 30 feet outside the basket.

We needed to have Josh or someone else initiate the offense. They took us out of our game.

Yep. And they gotta figure out how to get KAT more involved. Only 13 shots, the least of the starters along with OG

That disgusted me -- was yapping GET KAT THE BALL.

It makes no freaking sense!! And for it not to turn at any point, especially in the 4th. I mean, WTH are adjustments for Thibs? He has to see this happen and act accordingly.

Jalen is the coach on the floor -- can't give Thibs all the blame and ignore Jalen throwing the ball all over the court and wasting 18 seconds to get into any kind of offense.

I do agree - Thibs isn't Mr In Game adjustment but he was the same coach when we were up 12 and 8 after the 2nd and 3rd.
NBA is a players league -- guys making $20M, $30M, $40M, $50M to make decisions on the court.

Knicksfan wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

WP76 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.

WP76 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.

Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?

Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.

The refs were a factor.

.

I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.

Knew it was going to be one of their scrubs that would go for career night.

I actually like Wiggins but by no means for his offense.

A magic trick called playing your bench. It’s something unseen around here, unfortunately.

You would have taken Jalen.Josh.Mikal.OG or Towns out in the 4th for Cam/Shamet/Precious?

I don't understand your argument. Wiggins was playing because rest of OKC was choking - our front line wasn't choking - they weren't getting the ball.

gradyandrew wrote:Misery enjoys company, that's why I love it here.

Obviously - folks wanted this game.

But good to know we are the clear better team..just absolute horse shit home team calls to keep them in the game … honestly if we are home we win by 20

LivingLegend wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

WP76 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Not if it is true, and it was a factor, but the bench discrepancies lost this game. The Knicks have earned the same calls at MSG and they don't get them. JB gets bumped multiple times on some possessions, but no foul. SGA initiates minimal contact if any, fouls are called. But the Knicks bench or lack thereof, lost this game and Mitch isn't going to change that if he ever comes back.

WP76 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Apparently, they earned the home-court calls the Knicks haven't. Total BS that a team with 13 str8 wins needs favorable calls. Disgusting.

Alpha1971 wrote:How can OKC get away with all these fouls ?

Blaming the refs is weak. They made the clutch shots; we didn't.

The refs were a factor.

.

I'd say Wiggins kicking our butts down the stretch was a much bigger factor plus three consecutive turnovers when the game was in the balance was pretty important, too. Refs or no refs, this game was there for us to win.

Knew it was going to be one of their scrubs that would go for career night.

I actually like Wiggins but by no means for his offense.

A magic trick called playing your bench. It’s something unseen around here, unfortunately.

You would have taken Jalen.Josh.Mikal.OG or Towns out in the 4th for Cam/Shamet/Precious?

I don't understand your argument. Wiggins was playing because rest of OKC was choking - our front line wasn't choking - they weren't getting the ball.

My argument is not just about this game, but the result of game after game of relying solely on the starters. We have a team without a significant bench and whenever teams adjust to our gameplay, we have nothing to counter with. Not an adjustment from the coach, from the starters or from a bench that’s never relied on.

I agree with the details on the mistakes we made. But this game fully showed me why we will probably not even end with a decent record against the big teams in the league: Thibs and the coaching staff didn’t care about developing the bench from the start, and now we have a team limited to its starters and unless anyone has a historic night, we can be stopped when it matters while a better rounded team will run us out of the court.

The way we lost the 4th quarter is embarrassing. Yet we kept the starters there, playing like crap, just waiting to get the game done. This team has a new level to reach to actually compete with the best, but I wonder if they are capable of that.

We did ourselves a huge disservice not developing the talent we already have on the bench. Are they limited in some areas? Yes. Do they make mistakes? Yes. But fudge, they are still talented and capable of giving us a different look and a change of pace. It makes a difference in the 4th whatever significant they get in the earlier quarters.

Has anyone forgotten our first game against Cleveland? It was almost the same situation. The Knicks are good, but today was another reminder that we might not be able to join the best teams because of how poorly we have developed our bench and how poorly we adjust during games.