Knicks · Roster Completion - Finishing Touches (page 5)
DLeethal wrote:Knicks have enough to make a savvy trade on the margins IMO. Still some picks left, especially 2nd rounders. You have Sims contract, Mitch contact, Precious contract, you have some youngins with trade value like Kolek and Dadiet. So there are some assets and contracts there to get a leading bench weapon IMO.
Yes they have plenty. So when they do make the trade, it has to be for the right player. We really need a solid bench wing. But those guys are in demand, so others will be in the hunt for when they become available.
Trading Precious creates a hole.
For what its worth, with Sims expiring and having not executed improvement to be a regular in rotation (solid minutes) and Mitch returning its not at all a bad thing HUK is not playing now. Its possible his time is next year. That might have been the plan all along. Just becuase he has a good game once in while does not mean he is ready. We saw this with Deuce. But there became that moment and trading IQ was done with the thought Deuce is now ready. He was.
Kolek is not ready. he might be close? he might be a bust. We don't know.
The rumor we are looking for a player development might be a sign of frustration that our current staff is not getting it done. Have to also consider if we are apron challenged developing players is paramount for many reasons. Miami does it well. Find this low 1st round picks or free agents and they stick for while. some like Strus earn paydays and leave. Thats ok actually. Not everyone gets traded or resigned.
iHart is a success story and lets be honest in the timeline, he surged about this time last year when Mitch got hurt. His second half last year was incredible! We signed him as a free agent for 8mm per, and he killed it. Maybe too much? LOL. Its not like knicks are failing. Timing of the search and media railing on knicks being over used makes for a good story. its not inaccurate, its just a question of how much is fabricated drama, fan exectations, and Thibs adaptive or non adaptive approach is for real.
Knicks are a good franchise. We all want chips. Just not there quite yet.
DLeethal wrote:TJ Warren isn't doing anything for us. Shamet can't even make a dent and he's pretty good. They need a legit bench player to capture Thibs attention and gain his trust. Bottom of the barrel pickups won't do it. You can get a legit guy with our assets IMO. Someone of Cam Johnson's ilk.
What would this team look like if they targeted Cam Johnson instead of Bridges? Did we get the wrong Net?
DLeethal wrote:TJ Warren isn't doing anything for us. Shamet can't even make a dent and he's pretty good. They need a legit bench player to capture Thibs attention and gain his trust. Bottom of the barrel pickups won't do it. You can get a legit guy with our assets IMO. Someone of Cam Johnson's ilk.
So to get a player like Cam Johnson you're talking about moving Mitch + Achiuwa and draft compensation. That leaves us with Sims and Hukporti behind KAT and no true 4 on the roster. And quite honestly thats probably not enough for the Nets to move him. So you start moving on to other players in the Cam Johnson range of quality and you start to realize there's no shot with salary matching or the picks/pieces we have to trade that we're getting anyone like that.
That's when you realize you gotta be ok with the potential of a Cody Martin / Nick Richards package being the tippy top of what our realistic dreams can hope for. Or you start coming to terms with the fact that we are waiting till March or when we can dump Sims' contact so we can call up the likes of Warren or Okeke.
VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:TJ Warren isn't doing anything for us. Shamet can't even make a dent and he's pretty good. They need a legit bench player to capture Thibs attention and gain his trust. Bottom of the barrel pickups won't do it. You can get a legit guy with our assets IMO. Someone of Cam Johnson's ilk.So to get a player like Cam Johnson you're talking about moving Mitch + Achiuwa and draft compensation. That leaves us with Sims and Hukporti behind KAT and no true 4 on the roster. And quite honestly thats probably not enough for the Nets to move him. So you start moving on to other players in the Cam Johnson range of quality and you start to realize there's no shot with salary matching or the picks/pieces we have to trade that we're getting anyone like that.
That's when you realize you gotta be ok with the potential of a Cody Martin / Nick Richards package being the tippy top of what our realistic dreams can hope for. Or you start coming to terms with the fact that we are waiting till March or when we can dump Sims' contact so we can call up the likes of Warren or Okeke.
I wouldn't advocate trading Mitch AND Precious in any trade. And we also have guys like Kolek and Pacome who have value in a trade. I think we could put up a competitive offer for Cam Johnson with a contract + Pacome + a pick.
Either way, I think you are oversimplifying the market. I'm sure there are some forwards out there we can target. Our FO has always been good at targeting diamonds in the rough.
DLeethal wrote:VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:TJ Warren isn't doing anything for us. Shamet can't even make a dent and he's pretty good. They need a legit bench player to capture Thibs attention and gain his trust. Bottom of the barrel pickups won't do it. You can get a legit guy with our assets IMO. Someone of Cam Johnson's ilk.So to get a player like Cam Johnson you're talking about moving Mitch + Achiuwa and draft compensation. That leaves us with Sims and Hukporti behind KAT and no true 4 on the roster. And quite honestly thats probably not enough for the Nets to move him. So you start moving on to other players in the Cam Johnson range of quality and you start to realize there's no shot with salary matching or the picks/pieces we have to trade that we're getting anyone like that.
That's when you realize you gotta be ok with the potential of a Cody Martin / Nick Richards package being the tippy top of what our realistic dreams can hope for. Or you start coming to terms with the fact that we are waiting till March or when we can dump Sims' contact so we can call up the likes of Warren or Okeke.
I wouldn't advocate trading Mitch AND Precious in any trade. And we also have guys like Kolek and Pacome who have value in a trade. I think we could put up a competitive offer for Cam Johnson with a contract + Pacome + a pick.
No we can't. Unless you want that contract to be Josh Hart. If people don't like the mentality of this team without Donte, just wait till you lose hart for the likes of Cam Johnson...
VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:TJ Warren isn't doing anything for us. Shamet can't even make a dent and he's pretty good. They need a legit bench player to capture Thibs attention and gain his trust. Bottom of the barrel pickups won't do it. You can get a legit guy with our assets IMO. Someone of Cam Johnson's ilk.So to get a player like Cam Johnson you're talking about moving Mitch + Achiuwa and draft compensation. That leaves us with Sims and Hukporti behind KAT and no true 4 on the roster. And quite honestly thats probably not enough for the Nets to move him. So you start moving on to other players in the Cam Johnson range of quality and you start to realize there's no shot with salary matching or the picks/pieces we have to trade that we're getting anyone like that.
That's when you realize you gotta be ok with the potential of a Cody Martin / Nick Richards package being the tippy top of what our realistic dreams can hope for. Or you start coming to terms with the fact that we are waiting till March or when we can dump Sims' contact so we can call up the likes of Warren or Okeke.
I wouldn't advocate trading Mitch AND Precious in any trade. And we also have guys like Kolek and Pacome who have value in a trade. I think we could put up a competitive offer for Cam Johnson with a contract + Pacome + a pick.
No we can't. Unless you want that contract to be Josh Hart. If people don't like the mentality of this team without Donte, just wait till you lose hart for the likes of Cam Johnson...
I didn't realize Cam was making 24M a year. So obviously that's a no go. But there are plenty of players out there in the 6-12M range who could fill our bench slot.
DLeethal wrote:VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:TJ Warren isn't doing anything for us. Shamet can't even make a dent and he's pretty good. They need a legit bench player to capture Thibs attention and gain his trust. Bottom of the barrel pickups won't do it. You can get a legit guy with our assets IMO. Someone of Cam Johnson's ilk.So to get a player like Cam Johnson you're talking about moving Mitch + Achiuwa and draft compensation. That leaves us with Sims and Hukporti behind KAT and no true 4 on the roster. And quite honestly thats probably not enough for the Nets to move him. So you start moving on to other players in the Cam Johnson range of quality and you start to realize there's no shot with salary matching or the picks/pieces we have to trade that we're getting anyone like that.
That's when you realize you gotta be ok with the potential of a Cody Martin / Nick Richards package being the tippy top of what our realistic dreams can hope for. Or you start coming to terms with the fact that we are waiting till March or when we can dump Sims' contact so we can call up the likes of Warren or Okeke.
I wouldn't advocate trading Mitch AND Precious in any trade. And we also have guys like Kolek and Pacome who have value in a trade. I think we could put up a competitive offer for Cam Johnson with a contract + Pacome + a pick.
No we can't. Unless you want that contract to be Josh Hart. If people don't like the mentality of this team without Donte, just wait till you lose hart for the likes of Cam Johnson...I didn't realize Cam was making 24M a year. So obviously that's a no go. But there are plenty of players out there in the 6-12M range who could fill our bench slot.
You should watch this. They exhausted the whole NBA and only came up with Alec Burks as a realistic obtainable target
That's why I'm on Mitch + Picks for Cody Martin/Nick Richards or just wait for TJ or Chuma train
Blame iHart? Not really, I blame the money. Our bench last season was deeper at times.
Lets hope Mitch can return to form and stay on the court.
That Shamet gets his rhythm and keep the starting resting.
That Deuce hammy gets loose.
and Matt Ryan is not just a junk time player.
That Warren stays healthy and his game is intact when he gets the call up.
None of what I just wrote is fantasy. They are here, under contract and have done it before.
Given the parity of the league, seeding is not as important as it used to be. The top teams are not that elite and the lower seeds are not push overs. Last year Philly was a problem. This year they are currently out of the play in. 7 games under .500. Embiid has only played 13 games. PG13 26 games. If they are healthy and get into play in they will also give anyone a hard time. ATL? they are .500 team but they don't suck.
Indy? That roster been snake bit early but they get it together then too can surge.
Our starting lineup still has room to improve, but our bench is suspect. We been lucky our starters have been mostly healthy.
All things stay as they are I don't see us getting beyond 2nd round. Sorry, I know year to year it should improve but it takes time to construct a roster and we all read this as the season was starting our bench was an issue.
Problem is OG wound up missing a lot of time and gets hurt against Indy, Burks looked like a corpse for 2.5 months and Bogey took time to get comfortable/didn't quite fit and then got hurt himself, so it didn't work. Otherwise it was a 2 for 1 depth trade that should have gotten us to the ECF if the injury pileup didn't occur. I think we felt like we had a punches chance vs. Boston without KP and that we were well matched to most teams in the West, so it was worth the shot.
Grimes would be great to have on the roster now. Detroit also maybe kicking themselves they traded Grimes for Hardaway? Grimes is better than Tim and younger.
VDesai wrote:Knicks were playing well and they had an opportunity to get 2 rotation players for one when injuries had depleted their depth. Grimes was playing very poorly and looking increasingly less likely to be re-signed after his rookie contract, so Knicks looked to cash in the chips.Problem is OG wound up missing a lot of time and gets hurt against Indy, Burks looked like a corpse for 2.5 months and Bogey took time to get comfortable/didn't quite fit and then got hurt himself, so it didn't work. Otherwise it was a 2 for 1 depth trade that should have gotten us to the ECF if the injury pileup didn't occur. I think we felt like we had a punches chance vs. Boston without KP and that we were well matched to most teams in the West, so it was worth the shot.
Grimes would be great to have on the roster now. Detroit also maybe kicking themselves they traded Grimes for Hardaway? Grimes is better than Tim and younger.
All good points and it was for last year. I do think Timmy brings a solid vet presence and reliable shooting. Grimes had two club options and nw will be a RFA. The Depth trade was needed last year and Grimes was a mess last year under Thibs. Long term Detroit can sunset Timmy as its yoot come into their own and need to get paid.
I see this with Mitch actually. Next year is his contract year. He might be very valuable to us if he can put it together at his current contract. We will cry watching him leave for a 25-30mil per pay day if, but HUK should be ready for back up duty by then.
Back to Timmy, while we are crying that Beasly hit that jumper and danced his way off the court, Timmy made the right read and passed the ball. We doubled Cade who was killing us, Timmy was open and cold have shot it, but he penetrated and then kicked it. Grimes does not make that call. He either passes it right away or tries a floater. Timmy was patient. Dallas made a good trade for Grimes, and Detroit got what it needed which was to elevate sooner than later. Yes, Long term Grimes was worth waiting on. I don't regret trading him last year either.
Timmy makes over 16mm this year and is UFA after this year.
Detroit is interesting with players like Duren. makes about 4mm this year, if club picks him up he jumps to 6mm. They have the room. Question is he a starter or a back up talent? Similar to the iHart career. He was good with clippers but they could not pay him for various reasons. We get him at 8mm for two years and he surges in last 40 games of the year to earn a wonderful 2 year deal from OKC that basically was an over pay for the short term. Duren market value? salary demands that is fair? Detroit sold on him as the future or do they make a trade? They still have some nice picks to move.
Nalod wrote:VDesai wrote:Knicks were playing well and they had an opportunity to get 2 rotation players for one when injuries had depleted their depth. Grimes was playing very poorly and looking increasingly less likely to be re-signed after his rookie contract, so Knicks looked to cash in the chips.Problem is OG wound up missing a lot of time and gets hurt against Indy, Burks looked like a corpse for 2.5 months and Bogey took time to get comfortable/didn't quite fit and then got hurt himself, so it didn't work. Otherwise it was a 2 for 1 depth trade that should have gotten us to the ECF if the injury pileup didn't occur. I think we felt like we had a punches chance vs. Boston without KP and that we were well matched to most teams in the West, so it was worth the shot.
Grimes would be great to have on the roster now. Detroit also maybe kicking themselves they traded Grimes for Hardaway? Grimes is better than Tim and younger.
All good points and it was for last year. I do think Timmy brings a solid vet presence and reliable shooting. Grimes had two club options and nw will be a RFA. The Depth trade was needed last year and Grimes was a mess last year under Thibs. Long term Detroit can sunset Timmy as its yoot come into their own and need to get paid.
I see this with Mitch actually. Next year is his contract year. He might be very valuable to us if he can put it together at his current contract. We will cry watching him leave for a 25-30mil per pay day if, but HUK should be ready for back up duty by then.
Back to Timmy, while we are crying that Beasly hit that jumper and danced his way off the court, Timmy made the right read and passed the ball. We doubled Cade who was killing us, Timmy was open and cold have shot it, but he penetrated and then kicked it. Grimes does not make that call. He either passes it right away or tries a floater. Timmy was patient. Dallas made a good trade for Grimes, and Detroit got what it needed which was to elevate sooner than later. Yes, Long term Grimes was worth waiting on. I don't regret trading him last year either.
Timmy makes over 16mm this year and is UFA after this year.
Detroit is interesting with players like Duren. makes about 4mm this year, if club picks him up he jumps to 6mm. They have the room. Question is he a starter or a back up talent? Similar to the iHart career. He was good with clippers but they could not pay him for various reasons. We get him at 8mm for two years and he surges in last 40 games of the year to earn a wonderful 2 year deal from OKC that basically was an over pay for the short term. Duren market value? salary demands that is fair? Detroit sold on him as the future or do they make a trade? They still have some nice picks to move.
I’d be happy to see THJ back as a Knick. He was the nepo baby from hell, when the Knicks drafted him. A couple of seasons in ATL with coach Budenholzer, and Timmy came back a different player. He was pissed about being traded to the Mavs, but he made the best of it, and stuck.
jskinny35 wrote:We keep trying to find plugs around KAT to offset what he doesn't do well. Isiah Stewart would look nice next to him - is he a realistic trade target?
KAT is the least of our concerns. He’s been fine defensively for the offensive load he Carries. We badly need wing depth. Both shooting and defense.
Knixkik wrote:jskinny35 wrote:We keep trying to find plugs around KAT to offset what he doesn't do well. Isiah Stewart would look nice next to him - is he a realistic trade target?KAT is the least of our concerns. He’s been fine defensively for the offensive load he Carries. We badly need wing depth. Both shooting and defense.
KAT has been great offensively but feel he doesn't provide enough with rotations, rim protections and bone headed plays. Since defense is team oriented and you are only as strong as the weakest link... we did much better last year when it was just Brunson as a deficient defender (surrounded by Mitch and IHart vs this year with KAT).
jskinny35 wrote:We keep trying to find plugs around KAT to offset what he doesn't do well. Isiah Stewart would look nice next to him - is he a realistic trade target?
First thing is to look at his salary. Sportrac is a great place: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/detroit-pist...
then look at our team and salary. What makes sense?
Who on Detroit can step up and play Stewarts role? Who on knicks can fill a hole left by such a trade?
Stewart makes 15mil a year as a back up. Not a great value for them. Mitch makes similar (but on a declining) and he is doing nothing.
IQ was great because he as also trade fodder. His fate sealed when Brunson came over. Good teams draft and develop players on the cheap. Some get traded, some resigned and stick, some teams let walk. Sometimes you get stuck. Take Miami, Duncan Robinson an undrafted player was magnificent for his fist few years. Total salary was like 3mil over three years. Kid did great, was unrestricted FA and Miami gave him a 4 year 80mil deal. He has regressed some. Next season he is on a restricted deal with about 9mm guaranteed. Meanwhile, Max Strus a journey man did really well for them. Camp invite, made about 1.5mil a year. Earned a 4 year 62mil deal with Clev. For these guys its life changing!!!! Miami had no space to resign him. Duncan was untradable.
Two examples of a team that has been succeeding with cap issues. Jimmy Butler eats 33% of their cap space. For contrast, Duncan Robinson makes Josh Hart money!
Bam gets paid a lot and is not having a great season. To pay Butler big money is not a good option.
back on point. Take a gander at knicks cap: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-kni...
We have some big contracts, especially KATS. It gets tricky now. Role players off the bench and "Next man up" are the key to a chip.
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:Panos wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:ToddTT wrote:Jorts.BigDaddyG wrote:Trevor Keels for me.Panos wrote:I'll take duquan Jeffries at this point.Panos wrote:Knicks need a version of last year's playoff Alec Burks.What's Qyntel Woods up to these days?
Lavor Postell?
Tony Wroten for the win?
Poor man's Erdick Bohannon.
Wait who? LOL
Oh, sorry, I meant Etdrick Bohannon. My fault.
Still don’t know 🤦♂️🤷♂️😅
What, you don’t remember Etridge Bohannon of the Eastern Conference champion 99-100 team. His Per36 numbers are off the charts for a PF, at 21pts per36.
But yeah, he played about 5 minutes that season. Not exactly Moochie Norris.
